Electric cars?

[basilio]

I'm thinking this could be an area where a company like Tesla brings an actual revolution.

Much like the Japanese fixed the problem of American and British manufacturers' cars needing an extensive parts network and ridiculously frequent servicing by building better cars that generally didn't need many parts replaced.

End result is they basically did kill the British manufacturers and came pretty close to wiping out the Americans too.

Interesting story on The Driven around Teslas strategy regarding domination of the EV landscape.
Short story. It won't be just about selling cars but the ancillaries.

Why is that? Because Tesla sees even bigger profits in the future not from the cars themselves, but from its multiple “ancillary” business possibilities – software, full self driving, subscriptions, insurance, robo-taxis, and more.

To make this work, Tesla needs as big a fleet as it can get. Design and engineering will deliver a new level of scale at EV factories, possibly at a level that the industry has never seen.

“We see the EV market as a highly deflationary business,” the Morgan Stanley analysts wrote in a recent note.

Why the price of Tesla electric cars could fall by half in just a few years

Tesla EVs may only cost half their current prices in a few years time as production reaches "tera-scale" and revenues focus on subscriptions and other services.

thedriven.io

 

[basilio]

So here is the Electric Ute that ScoMo derided before the last election. No range, no tow, no guts..

Nearly 20,000 all-electric utes have been secured for the Australian market, through a deal between EV startup Atlis Motors and Australian Manufactured Vehicles (AusMV).

AusMV, which remanufactures vehicles like the Ford F-150 for the Australian market, has a number of electric utes – such as the F-150 Lightning – in its sights, but this is the first confirmed deal to date.

Slated for arrival on Australian roads in 2023, the Atlis XT promises a full swag of features fit for any tradesperson, off-road adventurer or weekend warrior.

And going by the specifications on the company’s website, this is a seriously heavy-duty vehicle.

Specs include capacity to tow 15-tonne trailers on a gooseneck, a bed up to 8-feet long, either single or dual motor set up with up to 447kW (600hp) peak power, more than 16,000Nm torque, 0-100km/hr in under 5 seconds and a maximum 250kWh battery with up to 800km claimed driving range.

AusMV strikes deal to bring 19,000 all-electric utes with 800km range to Australia

Nearly 20,000 all-electric Atlis utes secured by Brisbane-based AusMV for Australian market, in manufacturing and distribution deal.

thedriven.io

Nxu™ | undefined

www.atlismotorvehicles.com

 

[orr]

So here is the Electric Galoot ScoMo ...............the last election. No , no guts..

To both you're above posts Bas...
But first a warning to readers ; The following contians small quantities of 'math' in some cases this could lead to, in progression; confusion, nose bleed, seizure and the closer the inhabitant is to Collinsville QLD or Matt Canavan catatonic apoplexy..

In the last week US EPA test results for fuel efficency the Rivian SUV's ( a Ford F150 competitor) has been released, their approxamation for 'real world' .
The Rivian clocks just under 50kw/h consumption for 100 mile traveled.
Average Domestic supply charge here in australia today is just over $0.34 per kw/h.
So the cost to travel 100 miles( 160 kilometers) in the 'F150 equivilent' Rivian is 50 x $0.34 = $17 au...
$17 au pesos today will get around 10-11 liters, on a good day that might get you 100km (h/way) in that or a similar vehical.

Luckily no one will be silly enough to charge a vehical at home with excess electicity normally exported from their solar systems that they now get a rebate of circa $0.05 to 8 cents or nothing, if it's the case the if your supplier decides that an over supply on the grid demands you be shut out.

I'm talking to people who are financing vehicals south of %3 ... So a $3000.00 fuel saving per year services the interest on $100K.

Direct application of these economics on the east coast of Australia will depend, for many, on Latitude( proximity to the ' alt-right' is a detrimentally mutipyling factor). You see this not least in the confusion betwixt 'virtue signaling' and value capturing.

 

[mullokintyre]

Munro has released a video on the F150 Lightning.

They were impressed with it .
One of the interesting things they discussed was the isolation between the battery pack and the vehicle.
This obviously is an important step in the concept of wandering into a ford dealer and doing a battery swap in a somewhat less time than it takes to charge them.
the other interesting thing was the admission by Ford that rather than churn out heaps of the high dollar Platinum and Lariat models, at least 30% were going to be in base model fleet variety.
Its called looking after your customer base.
And the customer base is very important to ford.
The rednecks country boys that want their truck will want an American built Ford (or GM Or Ram).
They are brand loyal, and don't tolerate people telling them their trucks are crap.
Will be interesting to see the sales in a few years.
And I leant that tailgating in America has a different meaning to what we have in OZ.
Mick

 

[mullokintyre]

To both you're above posts Bas...
But first a warning to readers ; The following contians small quantities of 'math' in some cases this could lead to, in progression; confusion, nose bleed, seizure and the closer the inhabitant is to Collinsville QLD or Matt Canavan catatonic apoplexy..

In the last week US EPA test results for fuel efficency the Rivian SUV's ( a Ford F150 competitor) has been released, their approxamation for 'real world' .
The Rivian clocks just under 50kw/h consumption for 100 mile traveled.
Average Domestic supply charge here in australia today is just over $0.34 per kw/h.
So the cost to travel 100 miles( 160 kilometers) in the 'F150 equivilent' Rivian is 50 x $0.34 = $17 au...
$17 au pesos today will get around 10-11 liters, on a good day that might get you 100km (h/way) in that or a similar vehical.

Luckily no one will be silly enough to charge a vehical at home with excess electicity normally exported from their solar systems that they now get a rebate of circa $0.05 to 8 cents or nothing, if it's the case the if your supplier decides that an over supply on the grid demands you be shut out.

I'm talking to people who are financing vehicals south of %3 ... So a $3000.00 fuel saving per year services the interest on $100K.

Direct application of these economics on the east coast of Australia will depend, for many, on Latitude( proximity to the ' alt-right' is a detrimentally mutipyling factor). You see this not least in the confusion betwixt 'virtue signaling' and value capturing.

Good Analysis, but I must be picky about one thing.
The Rivian is about Ford ranger size, well below the F150 size.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

To both you're above posts Bas...
But first a warning to readers ; The following contians small quantities of 'math' in some cases this could lead to, in progression; confusion, nose bleed, seizure and the closer the inhabitant is to Collinsville QLD or Matt Canavan catatonic apoplexy..

In the last week US EPA test results for fuel efficency the Rivian SUV's ( a Ford F150 competitor) has been released, their approxamation for 'real world' .
The Rivian clocks just under 50kw/h consumption for 100 mile traveled.
Average Domestic supply charge here in australia today is just over $0.34 per kw/h.
So the cost to travel 100 miles( 160 kilometers) in the 'F150 equivilent' Rivian is 50 x $0.34 = $17 au...
$17 au pesos today will get around 10-11 liters, on a good day that might get you 100km (h/way) in that or a similar vehical.

Luckily no one will be silly enough to charge a vehical at home with excess electicity normally exported from their solar systems that they now get a rebate of circa $0.05 to 8 cents or nothing, if it's the case the if your supplier decides that an over supply on the grid demands you be shut out.

I'm talking to people who are financing vehicals south of %3 ... So a $3000.00 fuel saving per year services the interest on $100K.

Direct application of these economics on the east coast of Australia will depend, for many, on Latitude( proximity to the ' alt-right' is a detrimentally mutipyling factor). You see this not least in the confusion betwixt 'virtue signaling' and value capturing.

those “real world” figures you state seem pretty high, I know the rivian is a large vehicle, but 50 KWH on my Tesla does over 400 kms.

I don’t understand how 34 cents per KW could be average, here is QLD 23 cents is pretty standard, and I just signed my Father in law up to AGL in NSW for 28cents, so for 34 cents to be average there must be a lot of people over paying.

Also, you can charge you car on the off peak circuit if you set it up, and as you mentioned solar charging is cheap, you can charge your car will solar power you might only normally be paid pennies for and offset litres of fuel that cost dollars.

there is also the lower maintenance of EV’s, and the many other benefits that come along with EV’s.

 

[Smurf1976]

Average Domestic supply charge here in australia today is just over $0.34 per kw/h.

For the vast majority of Australian homes you can get cheaper than that.

Flat rates in SA will be low 30's cents per kWh but logically you'd be charging an EV using a TOU plan or on Controlled Load at a very much lower price.

Flat rate in other states is generally lower than SA but again you'd use TOU or Controlled Load in practice in most situations.

I don't have an EV but if I did then I'd be charging it at less than half that price.

 

[orr]

I don't spend as much time around the Yacht Club as in days of old; Is the disparaging term still in use for the motor boat club crowd 'Stink boats' ? ....
In an attempt, in small measure, be fair to the 'Stink trucks' of today I went with the $0.34/kw/h as lifted from the top of googled, 'Australian domestic electricity cost' ....
If we go with the better of your scenarios Smurf, the above Rivian is doing 100km for $8.50/ or less, for metered electricity...
The economics just get better & better.
As do the chances for Kieth Pitt's and the Minerals Council of cardiac arrrhythmia.

An anicdotal reference; A couple of years back I retired the 77 F100 (built the month Elvis died) to the shed,. With a light load it would use 25 liters of LPG/100km hwy.

The following lnk for EPA Rivian milage stats;

Rivian R1T Electric Pickup Has EPA-Official 70 MPGe, 314-Mile Range

With deliveries supposed to begin this month, the EPA has published official range and MPGe figures for Rivian’s upcoming electric truck and its R1S SUV.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Smurf1976]

If we go with the better of your scenarios Smurf

SA and historically Tas are the states I pay most attention to.

Looking at prices available to anyone, no conditions attached, well in SA you should be able to find Off Peak Controlled Load (OPCL) under 14 cents / kWh and you could use that if you (well, a licensed electrician.....) were to hard wire an EV charger to it. Alternatively for Time Of Use metering prices are more variable but if you look around the retailers then you'll find something similar for the lowest rates 1am - 6am and 10am - 3pm daily.

In Tasmania, Aurora will be more than happy to give you just under 14 cents / kWh from 10am - 4pm daily plus 9pm - 7am and all weekend on Tariff 93 (Time Of Use). Aurora being the overwhelmingly dominant retailer in Tas but not an actual monopoly just extremely dominant.

For anyone not sure, the TOU rates will apply to all consumption at the property during those times so no special work is required with installation just plug it in. Versus an Off Peak Controlled Load rate which applies to specific appliances only and requires permanent installation.

So as an order of magnitude, for 100 kWh to charge an EV you should be able to get that, retail, for $15 or so.

If you managed to use your own solar that would otherwise be fed in well in most case that's worth even less.

So an EV is pretty cheap to charge if you go the right way about it.

Some remote areas etc perhaps not, it might cost serious $, but not for anyone on the main grid and who takes advantage of the cheapest rates available which, given it's a storage device, will for most be easily done when it comes to EV charging. Doesn't matter that you're charging it at 1am etc for most users (and even if you are out at 1am, odds are you're not also out at midday). Remembering of course that the car doesn't need to be charged every single day, just as most people don't buy petrol every day.

 

[qldfrog]

Hyundai to Present Next-Gen Hydrogen Technology. The South Korean carmaker Hyundai Motors (KRX:005380) pledged to present its new hydrogen drivetrain in 2023, with the aim of applying fuel cell systems to all commercial models by 2028, claiming overall costs would be some 50% lower than currently existing technologies.

 

[mullokintyre]

From Kitco

New York passed legislation this week that requires all cars sold in the state to be zero-emission after 2035.

John Feneck, CEO of Feneck Consulting, discusses the impacts on the metals sectors with David Lin, anchor for Kitco News.

For information on the metals that will receive the most demand boost, watch the video above.

Maybe lithium, Nickel, rare earths of any variety.
Mick

 

[Lantern]

England will be first country to require new homes to include EV chargers

The British government will introduce legislation in 2021 that will require all newly built homes and offices to feature electric vehicle chargers in England.

Home and EV chargers in England​

Specifically, all new homes and offices will have to feature “smart” charging devices that can automatically charge vehicles during off-peak periods. New office blocks will need to install a charge point for every five parking spaces.

The new law will make England the first country in the world to require all new homes to have EV chargers.

It will also boost confidence in helping those who transition from gas cars to overcome range anxiety, as so many homes in England don’t have off-street parking or garages.

The proposal is part of the movement to rapidly boost the number of chargers across England ahead of the UK’s 2030 ban of new fossil-fuel vehicles. The government originally announced a proposal to mandate that all new homes have a charge point with a parking space in 2019, as Electrek then reported.

Nigel Pocklington, CEO of clean energy company Good Energy, said [via Business Green]:

England will be first country to require new homes to include EV chargers [Update]

The British government is going to require all newly built homes and offices to feature electric vehicle chargers in England.

electrek.co

Well I guess someone has to start the ball rolling.

 

[Value Collector]

Rivian water crossing.

 

[qldfrog]

England will be first country to require new homes to include EV chargers

The British government will introduce legislation in 2021 that will require all newly built homes and offices to feature electric vehicle chargers in England.

Home and EV chargers in England​

Specifically, all new homes and offices will have to feature “smart” charging devices that can automatically charge vehicles during off-peak periods. New office blocks will need to install a charge point for every five parking spaces.

The new law will make England the first country in the world to require all new homes to have EV chargers.

It will also boost confidence in helping those who transition from gas cars to overcome range anxiety, as so many homes in England don’t have off-street parking or garages.

The proposal is part of the movement to rapidly boost the number of chargers across England ahead of the UK’s 2030 ban of new fossil-fuel vehicles. The government originally announced a proposal to mandate that all new homes have a charge point with a parking space in 2019, as Electrek then reported.

Nigel Pocklington, CEO of clean energy company Good Energy, said [via Business Green]:

England will be first country to require new homes to include EV chargers [Update]

The British government is going to require all newly built homes and offices to feature electric vehicle chargers in England.

electrek.co

Well I guess someone has to start the ball rolling.

More red green tape,more costs, more tons of plastic and copper used for systems which will probably never be used: wrong plug, voltage,amp, wrong software etc, then mandated so you will see plugs on roof top,or in mountain offgrid chalet, etc etc a bit like wiring homes with Ethernet cable. Or HiFi cabling
Or arriving to a brand new toilet block in the australian alps with disable access ramp after 2h trek....
And all this in the name of the planet..
Let the market sort this part out.
What can and should be mandated maybe? is the ability to provide that extra power to the grid connected.
No point having plugs and not enough juice to have EVs on the grid in specific areas...the details of the plug can be sorted out by the owners when and if needed.after all, we might live in a future with EV powered by filling a tank with green ammonia or even h2 at the servo

 

[sptrawler]

Electric avenue: The NSW plan for 1000 electric vehicle chargers

From Broken Hill to Byron, electric vehicle chargers will be rolled out across NSW over the next six years under a state government plan.

www.smh.com.au

 

[divs4ever]

Electric avenue: The NSW plan for 1000 electric vehicle chargers

From Broken Hill to Byron, electric vehicle chargers will be rolled out across NSW over the next six years under a state government plan.

www.smh.com.au

that is assuming the government is elected twice more

the next problem , is how many vehicles can be charged simultaneously per charger ( they DID say CHARGER not charging station ) ..

could be a bottle-neck in peak hours a nice little line waiting for a 10 minute charge

 

[sptrawler]

that is assuming the government is elected twice more

the next problem , is how many vehicles can be charged simultaneously per charger ( they DID say CHARGER not charging station ) ..

could be a bottle-neck in peak hours a nice little line waiting for a 10 minute charge

I think the roll out of private charging infrastructure, will follow the uptake of E.V's, a bit like mobile phones in the early days there was very few towers, now they are wherever there is a buck to be made.
The State Governments will roll out a basic charging network, then as EV's become more common and demand for charging increases, the market will start and put them in. IMO where there is demand for a service, there is always someone willing to supply it, 'at a price'.

 

[Value Collector]

that is assuming the government is elected twice more

the next problem , is how many vehicles can be charged simultaneously per charger ( they DID say CHARGER not charging station ) ..

could be a bottle-neck in peak hours a nice little line waiting for a 10 minute charge

99% of people with EV’s will be charging at home, so we will never need as many charging stations as we do petrol stations, Think about it you probably go to the petrol station about once a week, but if you could fill your car up with petrol in your garage for 25 cents a litre, how often would you actually go to the petrol station? Probably never except for when you are on a road trip.

secondly, it’s pretty easy to install charging stations, much easier than building petrol stations, so as demand grows more charging stations will be built, in the last few years the national charging network has grown pretty fast.

If you look at most charging stations, they are empty most of the time, because as I said most ev owners don’t use them often.

 

[Value Collector]

I think the roll out of private charging infrastructure, will follow the uptake of E.V's, a bit like mobile phones in the early days there was very few towers, now they are wherever there is a buck to be made.
The State Governments will roll out a basic charging network, then as EV's become more common and demand for charging increases, the market will start and put them in. IMO where there is demand for a service, there is always someone willing to supply it, 'at a price'.

Yep, I mean look at Tesla, NRMA (nsw) and charge fox, between those 3 networks you can pretty much drive anywhere.

And if you do want to drive some out of the ordinary, say across the Nullarbor or some where, you can just plug in at caravan parks and motels etc with a little bit of planning.

 

[basilio]

I think the roll out of private charging infrastructure, will follow the uptake of E.V's, a bit like mobile phones in the early days there was very few towers, now they are wherever there is a buck to be made.
The State Governments will roll out a basic charging network, then as EV's become more common and demand for charging increases, the market will start and put them in. IMO where there is demand for a service, there is always someone willing to supply it, 'at a price'.

Absolutely. When you think about it setting up an EV recharging outlet is so much simpler and cheaper than a petrol station. Yes you have to have a power supply but after you install the charging units there are minimal costs.

The big deal ,IMO, will be ensuring adequate power supply from external sources or perhaps the addition of an onsite big battery to even out demand and supply .