Electric cars?

[divs4ever]

They can manage the load with EV’s a lot more than they can with people’s heaters, kitchens and TVs etc and spread demand so it’s always below the penalty rate peak levels, Higher utilisation rates can also actually make things cheaper provided it doesn’t hit super high levels.

Higher utilisation will increase profitability of producers, and also increase investment in things like wind, if you know that you are going to be able to sell the wind power you generate through out the night without penalty of negative rates because there is a large controlled demand ready to soak up supply you will be willing to invest in more in generation than you would if you knew there was no market between 10pm-6am

so more Chinese-made ( and designed ) nuclear power stations ( 'cos the British ones are unaffordable , and possibly inferior )

of maybe made by the Chinese/French alliances which are becoming popular

 

[Value Collector]

i disagree it is planning for failure


it is expecting frequent brownouts , because they can't adequately plan for future power generation ( BTW , i hope the program is flexible enough for daylight saving and normal time )

SMART was solar hot-water systems ( in places like Australia )

They have smart solar car charging too.

check out this charger, it’s designed in the UK.

 

[divs4ever]

not a lot of sun in the UK during winter maybe a mini water turbine using the rain might work better and reuse the water on the vege garden

 

[SirRumpole]

A spoonfull of sugar may get an EV from Sydney to Melbourne on one charge. (More time to fall asleep at the wheel

Battery discovery could propel EVs from Sydney to Melbourne on one charge

Australian researchers say they've opened the path to a new generation of batteries that could allow an electric vehicle to drive from Melbourne to Sydney on a single charge.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Smurf1976]

Most people will be turning heaters, lights and tvs off when they head to bed, that’s when the cars can begin charging, managed correctly you can have a nice steady demand load through the night that the electricity companies will love, especially because they could adjust the demand you match windy periods etc.

Emphasis mine.

As a concept it's 100% doable as you say. It's a fully solvable problem and quite easily.

The key is in actually doing it however since the "default" option for consumers is they just plug it in and it starts charging straight away. For rather a lot of ordinary users that'll be sometime circa 6pm give or take a bit which is the concern.

100% doable in theory but in practice consumers on flat rate pricing, and that's the majority, won't do it without a push of some sort be that a financial one or by means of automation etc or at least some serious education.

 

[qldfrog]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-pivoting-away-hydrogen-fuel-183000075.html
Narrative always wins

 

[Value Collector]

Emphasis mine.

As a concept it's 100% doable as you say. It's a fully solvable problem and quite easily.

The key is in actually doing it however since the "default" option for consumers is they just plug it in and it starts charging straight away. For rather a lot of ordinary users that'll be sometime circa 6pm give or take a bit which is the concern.

100% doable in theory but in practice consumers on flat rate pricing, and that's the majority, won't do it without a push of some sort be that a financial one or by means of automation etc or at least some serious education.

The chargers that are mandatory in new houses being built in the UK are controllable by the grid operator.

Also the default is to “Plug in” when you get home, but Tesla’s only begin charging at the time you program, for example I plugged mine in yesterday at 3pm, but it won’t begin charging till 9am this morning, because that is the time I set it for.

 

[Value Collector]

A spoonfull of sugar may get an EV from Sydney to Melbourne on one charge. (More time to fall asleep at the wheel

Battery discovery could propel EVs from Sydney to Melbourne on one charge

Australian researchers say they've opened the path to a new generation of batteries that could allow an electric vehicle to drive from Melbourne to Sydney on a single charge.

www.abc.net.au

I am not sure why people are obsessed with getting from Sydney to Melbourne on a single charge.

Sure it gives bragging rights, but if you chose a car with 600km range instead of 1000km, you could make the trip with just one charging stop of about 15 mins, and you are going to stop for that long anyway. So your battery would weigh 200kgs less saving you $1000’s over the life of the vehicle and cost you $1000’s less in purchase price.

 

[Value Collector]

not a lot of sun in the UK during winter maybe a mini water turbine using the rain might work better and reuse the water on the vege garden

If you ever drive round the UK you will see they have a lot of wind turbines, As I said am sure the owners these turbines would love to have a market to be able to sell their wind power they make through the night, adding another 9 hours of soils demand each day makes wind tunings a more viable investment.

 

[SirRumpole]

I am not sure why people are obsessed with getting from Sydney to Melbourne on a single charge.

Sure it gives bragging rights, but if you chose a car with 600km range instead of 1000km, you could make the trip with just one charging stop of about 15 mins, and you are going to stop for that long anyway. So your battery would weigh 200kgs less saving you $1000’s over the life of the vehicle and cost you $1000’s less in purchase price.

Until the charging stations are up to scratch, people will be worried about finding a free (as in not occupied) charging point on a long trip and the situation will get worse if the take up of ev's increases. A longer range has to be a selling point. I don't know if the "sugar battery" is practical but a longer range will be an attractive incentive to buy an ev.

 

[Value Collector]

Until the charging stations are up to scratch, people will be worried about finding a free (as in not occupied) charging point on a long trip and the situation will get worse if the take up of ev's increases. A longer range has to be a selling point. I don't know if the "sugar battery" is practical but a longer range will be an attractive incentive to buy an ev.

There is plenty of chargers along the Sydney to Melbourne route, in fact the route between Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide is complete.

My Tesla is lowest range Tesla, but now even I drive past charging stations on that route because there is more than enough along the way, where as 2 years ago There was only just enough, so you would stop at every one.

it’s not something you have to worry about, as more cars get put on the road, more charging locations pop up, it’s just like petrol stations popped up the more petrol cars got sold.

 

[Value Collector]

Let me explain what I meant when I said I used to have to stop at every charger.

Driving from my house north of Brisbane to Sydney, I used to have to stop at every Tesla charger because If I skipped the one at Ballina I wouldn’t have had enough charge to make it to Coffs Harbour (I probably would just make it, but not worth the risk) same story with port Macquarie.

However now before I get to Ballina I pass chargers just outside Brisbane and the Gold Coast, and I can drive past Ballina because there is a new charger further down the freeway at Maclean, and because of the Maclean one I can pass Coffs Harbour and carry on to port Macquarie, and I can skip new castle because there is another new one on the central coast.

But, in reality you can stop at any of the chargers you like, you just let your bladder or stomach decide, if you need to pee or eat, you just stop at the nearest charger and top up you battery as you empty you bladder.

Usually you end up making more charging stops that you actually need because the humans in the car want you to stop, not because the battery needs you to.

 

[divs4ever]

If you ever drive round the UK you will see they have a lot of wind turbines, As I said am sure the owners these turbines would love to have a market to be able to sell their wind power they make through the night, adding another 9 hours of soils demand each day makes wind tunings a more viable investment.

in winter the wind has a habit of springing up around 2 pm , we will see if they do enough ,

 

[sptrawler]

As we said a few years back, the oil companies will have to adapt, or lose their market share. This is one of the reasons I get annoyed with the media and others, demanding the taxpayer subsidies the EV concept.
It actually is an inevitability, so why take money of taxpayers some of who can't afford it, to put in place infrastructure that the private sector will have to put in, or go out of business.

Shell Wants To Own The Gas Stations Of The Future

Shell wants to offer electric vehicle charging, hydrogen and biofuels at its sprawling network of retail sites. And rather than generate its own electricity, Shell's plan suggests it may end up buying much of it in wholesale power markets.

www.forbes.com

From the article:
Anglo-Dutch oil giant Royal Dutch Shell’s plan to reach net zero emissions by 2050, unveiled last month, focuses heavily on selling low-carbon electricity, biofuels and hydrogen directly to households and electric vehicle owners.


The strategy marks a contrast with that of other European oil majors, who in their own plans to reach net-zero emissions have vowed to accumulate vast amounts of renewable power generation capacity in the form of wind and solar assets.

“Shell is a very big brand — that’s what more than 110 years of being a company does for you,” said Oswald Clint, a senior analyst at investment bank Sanford Bernstein, in an interview. “They can apply that in building out their network” of fuel stations.

To achieve net-zero emissions by 2050, including emissions from its own products, Shell has linked the salaries of 16,500 staff to a series of carbon reduction targets. It wants to reduce the carbon intensity of its energy products by 6-8% by 2023, 20% by 2030, 45% by 2035 and 100% by 2050, against a 2016 baseline.

Part of that plan relies heavily on carbon offsets, including spending an expected $100 million per year on “nature-based solutions” such as planting trees.

But the real substance of the plan involves bulking up its retail operations and overhauling them to focus on sales of renewable electricity directly to households and electric vehicle owners. “We aim to be a leading provider of clean Power-as-a-Service,” the company said.

Shell’s plan to focus on the retail side of the renewables business would build on its existing strength as a retail provider of gasoline and diesel. Shell already owns 46,000 retail sites and wants to increase that to 55,000. (“Retail sites” refer to gas stations, a spokesperson said when reached by phone, although the company didn’t respond to further questions.) In tandem, it wants to grow its electric vehicle charging network from 60,000 charge points currently to around 500,000 by 2025.
Together, the increased number of electric vehicle chargers plus expanded network of retail sites gives Shell a way to continue to bundle its products together, much as it currently sells its own gasoline at Shell-owned retail sites while also earning revenue from other businesses on the forecourt. Shell would also likely aim to sell biofuels and hydrogen at these retail sites: it plans to increase the amount of biofuels and hydrogen in the transport fuels it sells to 10%, from 3% currently.

“This is a forecourt [retail site] of the future, with electric vehicle charging, hydrogen will be there, liquefied natural gas, and then you’ve got a restaurant and a shopping area,” said Sanford Bernstein’s Clint. “Charging will look very different from how we think about it today.”

One of the new servo's that I mentioned between Mandurah and Pinjarra in W.A, that is very close to the transmission lines from the SW, is a Shell servo, as @Smurf1976 and I have been saying for some time, infrastructure will be modified to adapt to changing system requirements.

 

[divs4ever]

GM tells Bolt EV owners park away from vehicles in decks

GM tells Bolt EV owners park away from vehicles in decks By Reuters

GM tells Bolt EV owners park away from vehicles in decks

www.investing.com

maybe they should just rename the model to Blazer or Bonfire or something like that

 

[mullokintyre]

From ABC NEWS

Two electric car drivers have launched a High Court challenge to Victoria's tax on electric vehicles, arguing the state's levy is unconstitutional.
Victoria introduced the levy in July, which charges road users based on how much they travel. Electric vehicle drivers are charged between 2-2.5 cents per kilometre.

Lawyers representing two drivers have filed documents with the High Court, arguing Victoria does not have constitutional power to introduce the tax.

Lawyer Jack McLean from Equity Generation Lawyers said the constitution gave the power to levy consumption taxes to the Commonwealth, not the states.

"Our argument will be in the High Court that this is essentially a tax on consumption, and a tax on consumption is a tax that only the federal government can levy," he said.

He likened the levy to the GST.

He said the current fuel tax was levied by the federal government.

"And that's because the state government doesn't have the power, arguably, to levy those taxes under the constitution," he said.
Kathleen Davies bought an electric car in 2012, and said driving it was "a breath of fresh air".

She said she had never taken legal action before, but contacted Equity Generation wanting to be part of the challenge.
"Not only does it feel wrong from a constitutional point of view, it feels very unfair as a citizen trying to do the right thing and reduce my greenhouse gas emission," she said.

"And it worries me it's going to put the brakes on further EV adoption."

Ms Davies said she used her car to get to work and for personal use but at the moment "it's sitting in the garage not doing much" because of COVID restrictions.

The ABC has contacted the Victorian government for comment.

Its an interesting argument, but the two people might think carefully about what they wish for,
Should they lose the case, options open to the govt are to charge an annual fee regardless of road usage.
or they could demand that the feds raise the levy for them.
As for trying to argue that they are 'doing the right thing", thats got nothing to to do with the law.
Its the vibe ya know.
Only works in movies like "The Castle".
Mick

 

[qldfrog]

From ABC NEWS

Its an interesting argument, but the two people might think carefully about what they wish for,
Should they lose the case, options open to the govt are to charge an annual fee regardless of road usage.
or they could demand that the feds raise the levy for them.
As for trying to argue that they are 'doing the right thing", thats got nothing to to do with the law.
Its the vibe ya know.
Only works in movies like "The Castle".
Mick

What is funnier is that these guys most certainly voted Labour in both state and federal, and now complain as they got their wish in state but thankfully not national.

 

[mullokintyre]

Ford F150 lightning seems to have been well received by the rednecks.
FromCNBC

Ford Motor is expanding hiring to increase production capacity for its all-electric F-150 Lightning pickup as it begins building prototypes of the electric vehicle.

The Detroit automaker said Thursday that it plans to invest an additional $250 million and add 450 jobs across three Michigan facilities — including the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center, which is building the truck — to double annual production capacity for the vehicle to 80,000 units. That's up from 40,000 vehicles a year ago.

Ford has now invested about $950 million in production of a hybrid version of the truck and the electric F-150, which is scheduled to go on sale next spring starting at about $40,000.
More than 150,000 reservations have been made for the vehicle since its debut in May, up from 120,000 at the end of July, according to Ford.


Production and reservations for the F-150 Lightning are being closely watched by investors and industry analysts as a barometer for consumer acceptance of electric vehicles, specifically pickups, which dominate sales in the U.S.

Kumar Galhotra, Ford's president of the Americas and international markets, said the company expects to hit the 80,000 annual production rate during the second year of production, in 2023. He said Ford has gradually been "pulling levers" to increase production capacity of the F-150 Lightning throughout its supply chain.

"The reservation number has been growing quite rapidly since we launched it," he told reporters Thursday at the Rouge plant, in Dearborn, Michigan. "That's why we're increasing capacity and building them as fast as we can."

Several automakers are expected to offer electric pickups in the coming years. Amazon- and Ford-backed start-up Rivian on Tuesday became the first automaker to enter what's expected to be a hotly contested segment.

Ford has started initial pre-production of its electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck at a new plant in Dearborn, Mich.
General Motors is expected to get its EV pickup to market next, with the GMC Hummer EV rolling off assembly lines this fall. EV start-up Lordstown Motors and Ford are expected to follow next year, along with Tesla, which recently pushed back deliveries of its Cybertruck from this year to late 2022.

Preproduction models, or prototypes, are used by companies for testing and validation ahead of assembling vehicles that are used for certification before actual production for consumers.

Inside Ford's Rouge plant, the company is just beginning to build preproduction models. A limited number of the pickups have actually been produced at the plant, but officials said assembly will ramp up over time.

"We knew the F-150 Lightning was special, but the interest from the public has surpassed our highest expectations and changed the conversation around electric vehicles. So we are doubling down, adding jobs and investment to increase production," Ford Chair Bill Ford said in a release.

Mick

 

[mullokintyre]

Was looking at some of the home charger installations.
This quote from Evolution Australia I found kinda interesting.

It may be counter intuitive but sometimes it's advantageous to charge your electric car at a slower rate. Here’s three of the best reasons and their advantages.

Fast charging is known to dramatically reduce the the life expectancy of your battery. As a rule you should be limiting the times you fast charge your car to only when you need to. However, on some vehicles it's not possible to slow down the charge (from inside the car), which could be considered a design oversight. As a workaround, on a small number of EVSEs/Chargers the charge rate is selectable right down to 6A! This feature is enabled on all our portable EVSE models.

Also, although all modern electric cars have some form of Battery Management System (BMS), to look after your battery pack, slow charging does help the BMS more comprehensively condition and balance the battery. The result being that the next time you fast charge your car it may do so much more efficiently.

By charging at or under the capacity of your solar panels and (obviously while the sun is shining!) you will only use the sun to charge your vehicle which will essentially mean you are running your car for free. Check the table below as to the setting on your EVSE you should select dependent on the number and size of your solar array.

This dovetails with what I was taught many years ago, but in relation to wet cell lead acid batteries. But according to these guys, it seems to apply to the current crop of lithium batteries.
So the trade off becomes one of quick convenience versus longer battery life.
Mick

 

[qldfrog]

Was looking at some of the home charger installations.
This quote from Evolution Australia I found kinda interesting.

This dovetails with what I was taught many years ago, but in relation to wet cell lead acid batteries. But according to these guys, it seems to apply to the current crop of lithium batteries.
So the trade off becomes one of quick convenience versus longer battery life.
Mick

Faster charge means higher amps and more heat..and heat is the nasty in battery..by the same concept, it does not help your batteries to go hard on them
in the same way as mpg listed by constructors are not really representative of real life driving, i have the feeling we might get bad surprises for some owners as to battery life expectancy...