Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

Absolutely. When you think about it setting up an EV recharging outlet is so much simpler and cheaper than a petrol station. Yes you have to have a power supply but after you install the charging units there are minimal costs.

Tesla in the USA even have a mobile charging station that they can roll out when there is a demand spike along certain road trip routes during thanksgiving etc.

it is battery powered and provides an additional 14 charging bays, there is so many options, their larger charging stations are already battery powered, and have solar to supplement the electricity imported from the grid.

 

[over9k]

Probably bad for tesla, good for whichever chinese companies are biggest/most favoured. Off the top of my head, NIO is a winner.

 

[Smurf1976]

99% of people with EV’s will be charging at home

People will charge at home but I'm not at all convinced about the 99% figure.

Apartments are generally unsuited unless the body corporate puts in chargers.

Rental properties in general there's no incentive for the owner to do anything and many won't have power outside.

Homes without off street parking are another and that's extremely common in the inner suburbs.

Personally I'd be charging at home but I can see that there'd be quite a few for whom it's impractical.

One of the energy companies was trying to come up with some figures on it. I haven't heard anything on that recently but I'd expect it's well over 1% will have issues charging at home.

 

[Smurf1976]

The big deal ,IMO, will be ensuring adequate power supply from external sources or perhaps the addition of an onsite big battery to even out demand and supply .

If I was going to invest in a service station with a view to installing EV chargers there at a future time in place of at least some of the petrol pumps then first thing I'd be doing is investigating the local electricity network in detail.

What you want is a HV (High Voltage) distribution feeder running past so 11 or 22kV in most states. That'll facilitate future installation of a transformer to supply however many EV chargers you want without too much difficulty so long as the upstream supply is adequate.

Versus having access only to the LV network at 400V / 230V which will be seriously limiting.

Suitable (has HV supply):

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com.au

Not suitable (has 400V / 230V supply only)

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com.au

Put simply, what you need is the 3 wires at the top and 4 at the bottom. The three at the top are HV.

Note the above locations are randomly chosen and not necessarily a good place for an EV charger in other ways. Also that's not where I live in case anyone's wondering.

 

[sptrawler]

If I was going to invest in a service station with a view to installing EV chargers there at a future time in place of at least some of the petrol pumps then first thing I'd be doing is investigating the local electricity network in detail.

What you want is a HV (High Voltage) distribution feeder running past so 11 or 22kV in most states. That'll facilitate future installation of a transformer to supply however many EV chargers you want without too much difficulty so long as the upstream supply is adequate.

Versus having access only to the LV network at 400V / 230V which will be seriously limiting.

If you look at google maps smurf, Pinjarra and Mandurah, there has been three brand new large apron servo's built in the last two years, there has also been a few servo's closed in the town of Pinjarra.
The only factors that I can put it down to is, the area is very central for travel both on the SW highway and the Forrest highway they are half way between both, whether coming from the lower SW, lower mid west or Bunbury region and travelling to Perth.
Also the Collie transmission lines run within about 3 klm of all the new servo's.
It isn't as though the servo's were needed, there were plenty in Mandurah and Pinjarra which are only 20klm's apart, also 90% of the traffic goes straight down the new Forrest highway the rest is local traffic to the Alcoa refinery, so why build them?
My guess is they are gearing up.

 

[Value Collector]

People will charge at home but I'm not at all convinced about the 99% figure.

Apartments are generally unsuited unless the body corporate puts in chargers.

There is nothing engineering wise stopping body corps installing chargers, or at least power points.

my main point is that we should never expect there to be the same number of EV chargers as there are Petrol bowsers, they just won't be needed, but sure in places where there is a lot of apartments, or along popular road trip routes there will be ev chargers popping up.

Rental properties in general there's no incentive for the owner to do anything and many won't have power outside.

All you need is a standard power point, I charge mine using a standard 240V power point.

But if you own an EV, and you do enough Km's every day that a standard power point won't cut it, I am sure a land lord wouldn't have objections to you paying to install a charger.

Homes without off street parking are another and that's extremely common in the inner suburbs.

For them they can use public charging stations, or chargers at their work place.

 

[Value Collector]

If I was going to invest in a service station with a view to installing EV chargers there at a future time in place of at least some of the petrol pumps then first thing I'd be doing is investigating the local electricity network in detail.

What you want is a HV (High Voltage) distribution feeder running past so 11 or 22kV in most states. That'll facilitate future installation of a transformer to supply however many EV chargers you want without too much difficulty so long as the upstream supply is adequate.

Versus having access only to the LV network at 400V / 230V which will be seriously limiting.

anyone's wondering.

You could just have a large battery pack that slowly chargers with off-peak supply and solar, and that runs the chargers.

That way you don't have to be drawing large amounts from the grid at any one time.

If you do have say 6 cars charging at once, it could be drawing from the gris as well as the battery and solar, then at the times the charging bays are empty the battery recharges.

 

[Smurf1976]

There is nothing engineering wise stopping body corps installing chargers, or at least power points.

There isn't from an engineering perspective but a look at any real estate, tenancy etc forum will find no shortage of problems where air-conditioning or even things like clothes lines can't be installed not for any engineering reason but because the body corporate says so.

The idea of installing something on common property will cause some of these people to flip their lids, of that I'm pretty confident.

That's a human problem, not a technical one, but I've been made aware of enough horror stories in regard to other issues to be thinking that there's a very real chance it's going to be significant.

Much the same with rentals. It's hard enough getting some landlords to fix broken taps or ovens as it is without trying to get them to put a power point in the garage.

There are situations where it'll work obviously and there are good landlords and so on but there's quite a few shockers out there who aren't going to make this even slightly easy.

 

[Value Collector]

There isn't from an engineering perspective but a look at any real estate, tenancy etc forum will find no shortage of problems where air-conditioning or even things like clothes lines can't be installed not for any engineering reason but because the body corporate says so.

The idea of installing something on common property will cause some of these people to flip their lids, of that I'm pretty confident.

That's a human problem, not a technical one, but I've been made aware of enough horror stories in regard to other issues to be thinking that there's a very real chance it's going to be significant.

Much the same with rentals. It's hard enough getting some landlords to fix broken taps or ovens as it is without trying to get them to put a power point in the garage.

There are situations where it'll work obviously and there are good landlords and so on but there's quite a few shockers out there who aren't going to make this even slightly easy.

Horror stories are all well no good, but they are generally the exception, and as EV’s gain in popularity, if your rental house or apartment doesn’t have options for charging you will probably be shooting yourself in the foot as a land lord.

mom the other hand in the UK it will soon be mandatory that all new houses and apartments built have Ev charging available.

 

[qldfrog]

There isn't from an engineering perspective but a look at any real estate, tenancy etc forum will find no shortage of problems where air-conditioning or even things like clothes lines can't be installed not for any engineering reason but because the body corporate says so.

The idea of installing something on common property will cause some of these people to flip their lids, of that I'm pretty confident.

That's a human problem, not a technical one, but I've been made aware of enough horror stories in regard to other issues to be thinking that there's a very real chance it's going to be significant.

Much the same with rentals. It's hard enough getting some landlords to fix broken taps or ovens as it is without trying to get them to put a power point in the garage.

There are situations where it'll work obviously and there are good landlords and so on but there's quite a few shockers out there who aren't going to make this even slightly easy.

And why would a body corporate install power plug in common area for a few ev use ,and who is to pay the actual power bill.difficult technically to have a cheap solution.i would oppose and should anyone sane sharing the cost of recharge between a building's owners..so you need to install a paying recharge station..with added complexity.very rarely do you have a building wide internet or wifi nowadays
EVs to replace current ice is suited to EV recharging on h2 or ammonia at the servo then using that H2/ammonia in a "battery" (cell) to power the motor
The Tesla current model is niche and not suited to mass usage..reserved for the fews. Or in a taxi shared model.
Always back to Reset "they will own nothing but be happy"
Curent EV model is perfect for that
The removal of individual transport but for the elite with their own EVs or better flying EV cars as the plebs are heading to the tube with face nappies on..

 

[PZ99]

Still looking for an EV with a 1000k range

Getting closer....

Battery discovery could propel EVs from Sydney to Melbourne on one charge

Australian researchers say they've opened the path to a new generation of batteries that could allow an electric vehicle to drive from Melbourne to Sydney on a single charge.

www.abc.net.au

 

[divs4ever]

UK will program electric car chargers to TURN OFF for 9 hours a day amid fears demand will cause blackouts​

UK will program electric car chargers to TURN OFF for 9 hours a day amid fears demand will cause blackouts

Charging points for electric cars will be preset to turn off for nine hours a day amid fears they could cause blackouts with the government pushing the switch from diesel and petrol. From May, every new charger will automatically not function at...

www.sott.net

and EVs aren't even widespread in the UK , yet

 

[qldfrog]

UK will program electric car chargers to TURN OFF for 9 hours a day amid fears demand will cause blackouts​

UK will program electric car chargers to TURN OFF for 9 hours a day amid fears demand will cause blackouts

Charging points for electric cars will be preset to turn off for nine hours a day amid fears they could cause blackouts with the government pushing the switch from diesel and petrol. From May, every new charger will automatically not function at...

www.sott.net

and EVs aren't even widespread in the UK , yet

Both laughing, crying and saying i told you so...
We are in a world of dumb wits, narrative first, and leaders/decision maker with limited overall technical and sciences culture at its lowest.
So we see the CO2 banging, push for ev and renewable w/o taking reality into account, and covid reactions without sciences..the lot pushed by various lobbies both political and economics..a decadent civilisation is no fun..

 

[sptrawler]

I like the statement that people will be pushed to charge during off peak times e.g 10pm to 6am,because it is cheaper, when everyone is charging during off peak I don't think it will be cheap anymore.
The reason off peak is cheap is because no one is using it, when everyone is using it, why would it remain cheap?
It wont have any bearing on EV take up, but it is a misnomer IMO.

 

[Value Collector]

UK will program electric car chargers to TURN OFF for 9 hours a day amid fears demand will cause blackouts​

UK will program electric car chargers to TURN OFF for 9 hours a day amid fears demand will cause blackouts

Charging points for electric cars will be preset to turn off for nine hours a day amid fears they could cause blackouts with the government pushing the switch from diesel and petrol. From May, every new charger will automatically not function at...

www.sott.net

and EVs aren't even widespread in the UK , yet

It’s not that they have a problem now, they are just future proofing the network, it’s a smart thing obviously, we do the same thing will our hot water systems.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...electric-cars-preset-turn-NINE-HOURS-day.html​

 

[divs4ever]

well to the UK , where civilization is slipping back to the Stone Age (because bronze will create too many greenhouse gases )

i am guessing you will not be allowed to charge up in Winter because everyone will need the heating to resist freezing to death

 

[Smurf1976]

Exactly what I've been on about for a very long time now.

Left to their own devices and with no major incentive to do otherwise, most will plug the car in when they arrive home sometime late afternoon or early evening.

There are dead easy solutions to that but they need to actually be implemented otherwise we've got a rather huge problem coming very soon. It's 100% solvable but it has to actually be solved, the default outcome is not suitable.

 

[Value Collector]

I like the statement that people will be pushed to charge during off peak times e.g 10pm to 6am,because it is cheaper, when everyone is charging during off peak I don't think it will be cheap anymore.
The reason off peak is cheap is because no one is using it, when everyone is using it, why would it remain cheap?
It wont have any bearing on EV take up, but it is a misnomer IMO.

They can manage the load with EV’s a lot more than they can with people’s heaters, kitchens and TVs etc and spread demand so it’s always below the penalty rate peak levels, Higher utilisation rates can also actually make things cheaper provided it doesn’t hit super high levels.

Higher utilisation will increase profitability of producers, and also increase investment in things like wind, if you know that you are going to be able to sell the wind power you generate through out the night without penalty of negative rates because there is a large controlled demand ready to soak up supply you will be willing to invest in more in generation than you would if you knew there was no market between 10pm-6am

 

[divs4ever]

i disagree it is planning for failure


it is expecting frequent brownouts , because they can't adequately plan for future power generation ( BTW , i hope the program is flexible enough for daylight saving and normal time )

SMART was solar hot-water systems ( in places like Australia )

 

[Value Collector]

well to the UK , where civilization is slipping back to the Stone Age (because bronze will create too many greenhouse gases )

i am guessing you will not be allowed to charge up in Winter because everyone will need the heating to resist freezing to death

Most people will be turning heaters, lights and tvs off when they head to bed, that’s when the cars can begin charging, managed correctly you can have a nice steady demand load through the night that the electricity companies will love, especially because they could adjust the demand you match windy periods etc.

Electricity companies have huge capital invested in generation, higher utilisation rates through the night make these capital investments more productive, and lower the total cost per KWH produced per year.