Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

So Musk rolled up his sleeves and do the important bits?

.

Do you honestly think Tesla would exist as it is now without him? I don't.

 

[luutzu]

Do you honestly think Tesla would exist as it is now without him? I don't.

Of course not.
It could be better, worst... it'll be different because a CEO and their decision do change the culture and competencies of the org.

It might sound like I pooh-pooh Musk. I'm not.

I think he's done well and helped push the auto industry into a different gear. That in itself is an incredible achievement.

But it's not all him and his work. Not like it's made out to be in the presses.

He's no Thomas Edison with the lightbulb and a hundred or two other inventions; he's no Henry Ford working out of his garage then perfected the assembly line to put the world on wheels.

He's a rich guy with a few good ideas who managed to get a few people together, build a prototype then go raise billions of other people's money. That's not easy, but it's not world shattering or visionary.

In fact, he's probably a few runk below the like of Thomas Watson Jr. The son of Snr. who take his dad's POS cash register business, put billions of the company's own cash towards the IBM computer.

Musk and Watson Jr. are similar in that they're business managers. Capable enough to see what the future of the industry looks like and spend the investment to make it.

The issue I have with Musk's image, note that it's not an issue with him the person but what the public makes him out to be... is that we see Musk as some sort of visionary, some genius who build cars and build space rockets almost single-handedly. You know, like Tony Stark building his IronMan, then build Spiderman's new outfit... all in his basement by the sea.

 

[Junior]

Of course not.
It could be better, worst... it'll be different because a CEO and their decision do change the culture and competencies of the org.

It might sound like I pooh-pooh Musk. I'm not.

I think he's done well and helped push the auto industry into a different gear. That in itself is an incredible achievement.

But it's not all him and his work. Not like it's made out to be in the presses.

He's no Thomas Edison with the lightbulb and a hundred or two other inventions; he's no Henry Ford working out of his garage then perfected the assembly line to put the world on wheels.

He's a rich guy with a few good ideas who managed to get a few people together, build a prototype then go raise billions of other people's money. That's not easy, but it's not world shattering or visionary.

In fact, he's probably a few runk below the like of Thomas Watson Jr. The son of Snr. who take his dad's POS cash register business, put billions of the company's own cash towards the IBM computer.

Musk and Watson Jr. are similar in that they're business managers. Capable enough to see what the future of the industry looks like and spend the investment to make it.

The issue I have with Musk's image, note that it's not an issue with him the person but what the public makes him out to be... is that we see Musk as some sort of visionary, some genius who build cars and build space rockets almost single-handedly. You know, like Tony Stark building his IronMan, then build Spiderman's new outfit... all in his basement by the sea.

The stories in this book may change you mind around Musk.

 

[Value Collector]

Of course not.
It could be better, worst... it'll be different because a CEO and their decision do change the culture and competencies of the org.

Tesla would have been Bankrupt without his money, and his ideas around hanging the way the public view electric cars, Before Musk decided to make them "cool" they were seen as boxy science experiments.

He's a rich guy with a few good ideas who managed to get a few people together, build a prototype then go raise billions of other people's money. That's not easy, but it's not world shattering or visionary.

Well it does seem to be changing the world.

 

[luutzu]

Amazon creating jobs and taking taxes from the state, literally.

Some state bid to hand over Amazon's employees their income tax. Wow.

 

[luutzu]

Tesla would have been Bankrupt without his money, and his ideas around hanging the way the public view electric cars, Before Musk decided to make them "cool" they were seen as boxy science experiments.



Well it does seem to be changing the world.

An electric car has always been cool. Name one person who didn't watched that older doco about GM's dumping of its test Electric car and not think that's a mistake.

Like I said, entrepreneurs are expected to put up their money into their ventures. So what's the big deal about Musk putting up his own cash into his own company? Or a company he runs?

Lots of other entrepreneurs put in a whole lot more than just their time and money.

So to put in his hundred millions to keep it afloat with billions upon billions of other people's money... to bring your fortune from the hundred millions to now about $2.7B... Not too much of a risk and a sacrifice if you ask me.

Cars running on batteries/electricities is hardly a new idea. Not when it cost some $200K aussie to own one. And $US35K isn't exactly a cheap car either.

It's not exactly a candle and kerosene lamp to an electric bulb; or a handful of super-luxurious, handmade cars to a death-trap that most everyone could own.

 

[Value Collector]

An electric car has always been cool. Name one person who didn't watched that older doco about GM's dumping of its test Electric car and not think that's a mistake.

Yeah, and the electric car industry died, ........ until Elon put millions into Tesla, and changed that.

Like I said, entrepreneurs are expected to put up their money into their ventures.

Yeah, and if they put pretty much everything they have, into a venture, that is extremely hard, that big established companies have failed at, and they succeed, I think they deserve a bit of praise.

He is not your average venture capitalist, I don't think he has an exit strategy, he is in this for the long term.

 

[Value Collector]

Check this video at the 12.10min mark.

This is what I am talking about when I say charging stations will be popping up in non traditional locations.

This spot has 20 charging bays, just in a regular shopping centre car park, very little room needed, no staff needed. Tesla users just pull up and plug in.

As other manufacturers get on board it, and more non Tesla vehicles start popping up, I see generic charging stations popping up in car parks every where, just tap your credit card and charge.

 

[sptrawler]

This is what I'm talking about.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/ener...gen-and-renewables-plant-20171204-gzycr9.html

Wait until the oil companies realise there is life for servo's, if they change over from petrol to hydrogen, IMO it's a no brainer.
When oil companies start making hydrogen plants, and install tanks and pumps in their servo's it will cause a rapid take up of hydrogen powered cars.

 

[Value Collector]

This is what I'm talking about.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/ener...gen-and-renewables-plant-20171204-gzycr9.html

Wait until the oil companies realise there is life for servo's, if they change over from petrol to hydrogen, IMO it's a no brainer.
When oil companies start making hydrogen plants, and install tanks and pumps in their servo's it will cause a rapid take up of hydrogen powered cars.

I it's to late for hydrogen,

The only economical source is natural gas, which locks us into 1 single fuel vs electricity which comes from multiple sources.

Unless, we use electricity for the hydrogen, but that's inefficient, and you are better off just using the power to charge ev batteries.

 

[sptrawler]

I it's to late for hydrogen,

The only economical source is natural gas, which locks us into 1 single fuel vs electricity which comes from multiple sources.

Unless, we use electricity for the hydrogen, but that's inefficient, and you are better off just using the power to charge ev batteries.

I disagree with you, but as we have said, time will tell.
Batteries will have a place as a stop gap, until there is enough excess renewable generation, to manufacture bulk hydrogen.
When that happens, it will be curtains for battery e.v IMO.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-08/trial-to-inject-hydrogen-into-gas-lines/8782956

http://www.hybridcars.com/worlds-largest-eco-friendly-hydrogen-plant-opens-in-germany/

 

[luutzu]

I disagree with you, but as we have said, time will tell.
Batteries will have a place as a stop gap, until there is enough excess renewable generation, to manufacture bulk hydrogen.
When that happens, it will be curtains for battery e.v IMO.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-08/trial-to-inject-hydrogen-into-gas-lines/8782956

http://www.hybridcars.com/worlds-largest-eco-friendly-hydrogen-plant-opens-in-germany/

The world can't go all electric. If it does, the traffic jam from 4pm to 5.30pm will follow by mass blackouts at 6pm.

The world's oil reserves will run out in about 100 years. So far, there doesn't seem any likely potential alernative fuel source for planes and jets beside oil, or even shipping... and the world can't move without those two modes of transportation.

 

[sptrawler]

The world can't go all electric. If it does, the traffic jam from 4pm to 5.30pm will follow by mass blackouts at 6pm.

The world's oil reserves will run out in about 100 years. So far, there doesn't seem any likely potential alernative fuel source for planes and jets beside oil, or even shipping... and the world can't move without those two modes of transportation.

Jets can run on liquid hydrogen, the only problem is the cost to produce it, using fossil fuels.
That isn't a problem when you are using renewables

 

[Value Collector]

The world can't go all electric. If it does, the traffic jam from 4pm to 5.30pm will follow by mass blackouts at 6pm.

Why, the cars can be charged during off peak times, the electricity demand starts crashing by 9 at night, and most peoples daily commute would only take less than2 hours of charging,

the power stations owners would love it, steady electric demand through hours that traditionally are loss making.

 

[Value Collector]

I disagree with you, but as we have said, time will tell.
Batteries will have a place as a stop gap, until there is enough excess renewable generation, to manufacture bulk hydrogen.
When that happens, it will be curtains for battery e.v IMO.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-08/trial-to-inject-hydrogen-into-gas-lines/8782956

http://www.hybridcars.com/worlds-largest-eco-friendly-hydrogen-plant-opens-in-germany/

Have you done the numbers on whether you could profitably run a wind farm and produce hydrogen? eg can a $100Million wind farm generate enough hydrogen to make the investment in both the wind farm and the conversion plant worth it, if not where is all this "excess" electricity going to come from, people aren't going to keep adding infrastructure once a glut forms.

You seem to miss the point that using the electricity to create hydrogen isn't as efficient as just using the electricity to charge a car.

eg, if you can get 1000km's out of an EV, using the same amount of electricity it takes a hydrogen car to move 300km's, what is the point of adding the complexity of a hydrogen network?

 

[Value Collector]

the only problem is the cost to produce it, using fossil fuels.
That isn't a problem when you are using renewables

Why isn't cost a problem with renewables? renewables aren't free, they take a massive capital investment to set up, which has to pay for itself, So whether you are building an oil rig or a wind farm, you are building expensive infrastructure that has a limited life, that needs to generate enough revenue to cover its construction, running cost and a return on those invested funds.

 

[Value Collector]

Electric (battery) vs Hydrogen.

Both cars are essentiality electric vehicles, it's just an one uses the simple model to deliver electricity to the motors and the other a complex model.

1, Create electricity -> charge a battery -> battery runs the car motors.

2, Create electricity -> use electricity inefficiently to create hydrogen -> then compress the hydrogen and store it -> truck it cross country -> Store it at fill station -> then fill the car -> convert the hydrogen back to electricity -> run the car motor.

 

[luutzu]

Jets can run on liquid hydrogen, the only problem is the cost to produce it, using fossil fuels.
That isn't a problem when you are using renewables

Jets can run on hydrogen, but can it fly?

I probably should look into that. Heard the US currently has this system on its subs that separate the H from the o2 in the water as it passes. From memory they only uses the o2 for fresh air.

Pretty incredible the tech that's out there but not yet mass-marketed.

 

[Value Collector]

Jets can run on hydrogen, but can it fly?

I probably should look into that. Heard the US currently has this system on its subs that separate the H from the o2 in the water as it passes. From memory they only uses the o2 for fresh air.

Pretty incredible the tech that's out there but not yet mass-marketed.

Probably not a bad Idea if you have a nuclear reactor on board providing you with unlimited energy, and you want don't mind wasting it if it gives you a tactical advantage by letting you stay under water for longer, but outside of that situation there is probably better uses for that energy.

 

[luutzu]

Probably not a bad Idea if you have a nuclear reactor on board providing you with unlimited energy, and you want don't mind wasting it if it gives you a tactical advantage by letting you stay under water for longer, but outside of that situation there is probably better uses for that energy.

Yea, probably not a good idea to use Hydrogen near nukes either.