ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal

[--B--]

the Hick's confession was made under duress, therefore not admissible in a normal court of law, end of story.

of course.. Hick was just an 'innocent adventurer" wasnt he? poor fella.

Why then has Hicks not challenged this? oh wait - something about the evil government?

Hundreds of teenagers? Hmmmmm

oh my apologies... over 200 died in the first bombing of which 88 were australians - and many many of these 200 dead were teenagers.

and what was your point? does my overstatement make the terrorists somewhat less guilty?

 

[trading_rookie]

Surely shutting down Lucas Heights (permanently) would make more sense than adding to the 40% of Tasmania that is already either in the World Herritage Area or a National Park

That's another point...since the point is terrorists had already planned to attack Australia long before our involvement in Iraq, or Afghanistan for that matter.

Maybe it's because of our rocky relationship over the decades with Indonesia and Malaysia, Pine Gap, Hawke's ALP that was pro-Israel, Hawke's participation in Gulf War I...not just the non-UN sanctioned one raging now. As if terrorists sit around debating that in their eyes GWI was okay 'cause it was backed by the UN while GWII isn't - no they leave that 'futile argument' to the academia of the west...

Getting back to Lucas Heights, I was under the impression it was for scientific research as well as facilitating in medical practises. Is this not true? The site was chosen many decades ago because the land was pretty safe from earthquakes as well as very far away from the population - the greenbelt of Sydney.

 

[trading_rookie]

I could care less about Hicks, but the Iraqi war was a stupid and tragic waste of life. Neither are issues I would probably be bothered voting on. Subjects like housing, education, Inflation , Employment or idiot militant union members causing strife will be the topics affecting me. I am leaning towards Rudd but would like to see him break away more from union control before my vote is secured.They are both basically the same, one just has a clean slate atm.I think Rudd is just as smart and cunning as his liberal counterpart though.

Good post moXJO. As I've said in another post, it would be a landslide victory to the ALP if they abandoned their link with the ACTU/trade unions.

It's good to see that someone else can see that Rudd too knows how to play the clever pollie, the announcement yesterday to log more in Tassie just proves it further - more interested in winning key seats than sticking to his green policy.

 

[Rafa]

trading rookie...
if you notice what you quoted me on... i said

thats great, so am i...

which is why i am livid howard as made us a bigger terrorist target by being an ally of bush in iraq...

Hence, howard fails misrably on that front!

as for rudd, since when is he a greenie...? He has always occupied the middle ground on that... When has he ever said stop burning coal, or mine uranium... calling him a greeny is another example of cheap political mudslinging by the liberals and their sympathisers

it was latham who tried to go all green... and presently, that job is left to the greens! Rudd talks about climate change as something thats real and something we as australians, with an abundance of natural 'green' resouces as well as cleverness should be looking at as an oppurtunity, rather than a threat...

the only thing thats a bigger threat is clinging blindly to yesterdays technologies such as coal and nuclear... and not trying to progress... heck, sure of overseas countries want to burn coal and nuclear, let them, but not here thanks, we are a lot smarter than that... surely....!


i think you and moXJO are spot on on saying that the link to the trade unions are the key... Can rudd successfully keep the unions in their places like hawke and keating? thats an answer we won't know for a while yet...


all i know is that to win this election, rudd will need union support... to win the next one, he won't

 

[--B--]

the only thing thats a bigger threat is clinging blindly to yesterdays technologies such as coal and nuclear... and not trying to progress... heck, sure of overseas countries want to burn coal and nuclear, let them, but not here thanks, we are a lot smarter than that... surely....!

Rafa, how is nuclear 'yesterdays' technology when australia has never had a nuclear power station and the technology is still advancing??

close minded thinking which ignores the only real alternative to coal gets us nowhere.

i think you and moXJO are spot on on saying that the link to the trade unions are the key... Can rudd successfully keep the unions in their places like hawke and keating? thats an answer we won't know for a while yet...

my skepticism tells me Rudd will more than likely do all he can to hide the true union influence from the public rather than keep them in their place.

IR legislation is where the union presence will be felt and when many more jobs are lost overseas and more companies move overseas, the australian public will no doubt start to wonder what happened to their once prosperous economy.

all i know is that to win this election, rudd will need union support... to win the next one, he won't

St Kev is coasting on his 'all things to all people' image and its only a matter of time before the public see through the facade. To be a successful leader of this country Rudd will need to grow a spine and wear his heart on his sleeve.

 

[Sprinter79]

of course.. Hick was just an 'innocent adventurer" wasnt he? poor fella.

Why then has Hicks not challenged this? oh wait - something about the evil government?

Not saying that he's not guilty, just saying that his confession is not worth the paper it's written on. The reason he hasn't challenged is because it was part of the 'plea bargain' that was arranged.

oh my apologies... over 200 died in the first bombing of which 88 were australians - and many many of these 200 dead were teenagers.

and what was your point? does my overstatement make the terrorists somewhat less guilty?

My point is that you have deliberately overstated the facts (ie ramped in order to strengthen your argument.

 

[surfingman]

Whose the worse of the 2 evils your guess is a good as mine, cant see much behind those cheesy smiles or large eyebrows. Outsource management and float the parliament maybe we could get some good returns if some decent managers took over.

 

[Sprinter79]

yeah nuclear technology is old, all we have to do is wait till 2050 and we'll have Fusion power hehehe

Source: Simcity :

 

[moXJO]

my skepticism tells me Rudd will more than likely do all he can to hide the true union influence from the public rather than keep them in their place.

IR legislation is where the union presence will be felt and when many more jobs are lost overseas and more companies move overseas, the australian public will no doubt start to wonder what happened to their once prosperous economy.

Yes I feel that it could swing back too far if left to the unions, who seem hell bent on making employers suffer. And with talk of the union wanting to enforce compulsory membership, you would have to wonder what they have planned if labor does get in. Too much red tape for business will guarantee high prices for everyone, higher unemployment possibly higher inflation.

Rudd needs to clarify his position on the unions

 

[Rafa]

Rafa, how is nuclear 'yesterdays' technology when australia has never had a nuclear power station and the technology is still advancing??

close minded thinking which ignores the only real alternative to coal gets us nowhere.

Nuclear technology, that generates radioactive waste is old technology.. 1970's stuff... taking that up is being close minded...

Fusion will be new technology... 2050 eh Sprinter looking forward to it.
Geothermal, Waves, solar towers etc, thats the new stuff... see Portugal and what their doing...

my skepticism tells me Rudd will more than likely do all he can to hide the true union influence from the public rather than keep them in their place.

IR legislation is where the union presence will be felt and when many more jobs are lost overseas and more companies move overseas, the australian public will no doubt start to wonder what happened to their once prosperous economy.

Agreed... i can understand your skepticism, IR is the biggie...

St Kev is coasting on his 'all things to all people' image and its only a matter of time before the public see through the facade. To be a successful leader of this country Rudd will need to grow a spine and wear his heart on his sleeve.

Well, i've seen Howards heart... and i don't like it...
Still to see his spine... he lacks guts to be a true statesman.... prefers his cheap divisive spinless politics to get the easy votes.

 

[--B--]

nuclear technology, that generates radioactive waste is old technology.. 1970's stuff... taking that up is being close minded...
Fusion will be new technology... 2050 eh Sprinter looking forward to it.
Geothermal, Waves, solar towers etc, thats the new stuff... see Portugal and what their doing...

while plenty sing the praises of technology that is not fully developed (ie: solar, geothermal etc etc, they appear reluctant to advocate further research into Nuclear for some reason?

Perhaps further research into nuclear will bring about better ways to dispose of the waste? Much progress has been made since the 70's and im quite sure the technology exists to re-use the waste in some way (ill need to research that part to refresh my mind though..)

 

[--B--]

Yes I feel that it could swing back too far if left to the unions, who seem hell bent on making employers suffer. And with talk of the union wanting to enforce compulsory membership, you would have to wonder what they have planned if labor does get in. Too much red tape for business will guarantee high prices for everyone, higher unemployment possibly higher inflation.

Rudd needs to clarify his position on the unions

absolutely spot on.

 

[arminius]

i wasnt aware i had to write an essay on the implications of our foreign policy decisions.
im sure you dont need me to point out that there is no easy answer to the middle east fiasco. whatever happens, it will be very very ugly. it wont be peaceful for a long time, and for every innocent iraqi who dies in that time you can thank our government for its part. those blokes attacking coalition troops are labelled 'terrorists'. for you to imply that i condone the bali bombings is vile. however, if you think our actions will not continue to motivate ji then you are delusional.
my reference to rugby was an effort to describe myself as one who is partial to a bit of thuggery on a regular basis and not a bleeding heart. from now on i wont resort to oblique literary devices.
if you want to examine the timelines, how long has america been neck deep in middle eastern politics? hang on...wasnt the taliban their allies v russia? didnt they train osama b laden? didnt they arm and fund saddam v iran?

domestically, i also agree that rudd needs to keep unions under wraps, because of public perceptions mostly. im not a unionist, and their influence is much less now, but i would imagine you or someone close to you can thank them for your working conditions, for surely you can see how they represented all workers, whose interests were diametrically opposed to employers whose interests were ( if i may put in the simplest terms- lower wages, more hours, maximum profit ) beginning with the shearers strike of 1890, the labor party has and will always be about the working man/woman..cant see them parting ways

 

[Rafa]

on that point, arminius, it must be said, unions are certainly not all bad...

pretty much every condition we take for granted these days was won becuase of unions... its easy to forget, just cause times are now good.

but the wheel is turning aided by howards new laws... and the people can see it.

its interesting, whilst we all clamour that unions will send wages up, asset prices are skyrocketing and average wages a simply not keeping up with that... not to metion wages as a percentage of company profits

 

[--B--]

i wasnt aware i had to write an essay on the implications of our foreign policy decisions.
im sure you dont need me to point out that there is no easy answer to the middle east fiasco. whatever happens, it will be very very ugly. it wont be peaceful for a long time,

no-one asked you to write an essay. i asked you a simple question of what would happen in iraq if the US and its allies were to pull out tomorrow.

You said "the whole world wants the US out" and i wonder what you think would happen if the US did actually pull out. I believe it would be highly irresponsible and i'd hazzard a guess iraq would become far more unstable than it is right now.

and for every innocent iraqi who dies in that time you can thank our government for its part.

has our government somehow assisted those insurgents that kill their fellow iraqis with bombs etc?

those blokes attacking coalition troops are labelled 'terrorists'. for you to imply that i condone the bali bombings is vile.

no, i simply commented on your 'freedom fighter' analogy which i find ridiculous when you consider the example i provided. for the record - i meant no insult or offence on you.

however, if you think our actions will not continue to motivate ji then you are delusional.

oh im quite sure anything us "evil infidels" do will motivate them.

my reference to rugby was an effort to describe myself as one who is partial to a bit of thuggery on a regular basis and not a bleeding heart. from now on i wont resort to oblique literary devices.

well i actually found it quite humorous and id welcome any further devices you can muster..

if you want to examine the timelines, how long has america been neck deep in middle eastern politics? hang on...wasnt the taliban their allies v russia? didnt they train osama b laden? didnt they arm and fund saddam v iran?

did im mention timelines? or was that directed to someone else? i am aware of the US history however i fail to see the relevance here. should the US base their foreign policy on their historical actions?

domestically, i also agree that rudd needs to keep unions under wraps, because of public perceptions mostly. im not a unionist, and their influence is much less now, but i would imagine you or someone close to you can thank them for your working conditions, for surely you can see how they represented all workers, whose interests were diametrically opposed to employers whose interests were ( if i may put in the simplest terms- lower wages, more hours, maximum profit ) beginning with the shearers strike of 1890, the labor party has and will always be about the working man/woman..cant see them parting ways

while the unions may have had a place in australias history, and they can be thanked for their efforts, they are no longer required in present day australia.

 

[Sprinter79]

while the unions may have had a place in australias history, and they can be thanked for their efforts, they are no longer required in present day australia.

That is absolute crap. How quickly would working conditions revert to those of the past? Unions are still an important part of every OHS legislative body in Australia, and I'm sure people like you would LOVE to see OHS laws disappear too....

 

[--B--]

That is absolute crap. How quickly would working conditions revert to those of the past? Unions are still an important part of every OHS legislative body in Australia, and I'm sure people like you would LOVE to see OHS laws disappear too....

settle down sprinter, how do my views on unions give an insight into my views on OH&S legislation?

While i do think the OH&S "industry" perhaps went a little out of control at one stage, i have no drama whatsoever with OH&S legislation and I believe it is essential in modern day workplaces.

 

[2020hindsight]

on the subject of what would happen if the US pulled out - bound to be some sort of phased scale down rather than complete pull out. (my guess anyway)

back there I speculated on the quantum of actual reduction in numbers. Not sure if there are more accurate numbers yet ?

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=122684&highlight=navy#post122684

 

[Rafa]

there was an interest story on the 7:30 report about a mine (i think it was BHP owned) in WA...

everyone on AWA's...
but apparently almost everyone's marking time before someone gets killed.

OH&S and wages and conditions are all key benifits that were won by the unions.

I don't want too much union power, nor none of it. What is needed is a balance.
Howards moved the pendulum too much the other way.

What i need Rudd to show me, is that how much will he bring the pendulum back, and will he allow it to overshoot the centre?

 

[Rafa]

Foriengn correspondent 8:30 ABC tomorrow on Portugal and its new power generating technology... should make for fascinating viewing.