David Hicks protests

[new girl]

New Girl,

I must say that I do enjoy your posts. A clear strong thinker who doesn't constantly call up this or that link for support.

Have I buttered you up enough to ask you a silly question? About sex? I think.

It had been frequently reported in the media that the suicide bombers, or "martyrs" as the radical muslims regard them, are rewarded with 72 (seventy two) virgins up there in heaven. My mind boggles that some rational people would think that any male could service so many virgins without doing some physical damage to himself. To me this would be a punishment and not a reward. Kill them by kindness, but kill them all the same. Some would say - what a way to go. My own view is to stay alive and enjoy sex for a lot onger.
What I want to know is whether this 72 virgins reward promise is a fact or is fiction of the western media.

Any comments???

anon

Anon,

1. You are too kind my friend, thank you

2. Mate, I love talking about sex are you kidding me? for some reason it makes men pay attention, if you want to make a point all you have to do is say the word and they're all ears!!

3. I'm glad you asked, the answer is YES, yes and yes just in case you didn't read it properly, but from memory it's 70, I can double check that if you want . Can you imagin Anon, 16-20 (year old male who can't have sex outside marriage) being told he'll have 70 women a night!!! that IS heaven!!! it's not that hard to blow yourself up after that is it??

ps: Do me a favor and read "Corruption in Australia" thread, I only started posting properly on this forum after what 2020hindsight said about this topic! he made laugh so much I got hooked. This guy is an absolute LEGEND

 

[greggy]

New Girl

Perhaps it's time for a sleep or a visit to the gym to work off some of your antagonism.

Prospector's post made a good point.

I find your response unnecessarily offensive.

A forum is about anyone who is interested contributing their thoughts.
You are entitled to yours, but you are not entitled to attempt to belittle the contributions of others.

A couple of times, I've begun to contribute my own thoughts to this thread, but have decided it's descended into a rather hysterical squabble.
It would be good to return to the actual title of the thread.

Julia

Hi Julia,

I feel that the situation has descended into anarchy. There's not really much point in continuing this thread when its got off the beaten track.

 

[trading_rookie]

2) If you have watched enough ABC TV on the topic then you would know that he SURRENDERED as soon as he found out what had happened in the US.

C'mon Chops you're sounding very gullible there! If he's been brainwashed to believe the West is evil and the US devil must be destroyed I find it very hard to accept he surrended. Wasn't he also a mercenary with the Albanian KLA? A terrorist organisation?

ps - Even the socialist alliance website quotes that he was 'captured' during the closing days of the war.

 

[greggy]

C'mon Chops you're sounding very gullible there! If he's been brainwashed to believe the West is evil and the US devil must be destroyed I find it very hard to accept he surrended. Wasn't he also a mercenary with the Albanian KLA? A terrorist organisation?

ps - Even the socialist alliance website quotes that he was 'captured' during the closing days of the war.

I have to agree that David Hicks was captured.

 

[chops_a_must]

C'mon Chops you're sounding very gullible there! If he's been brainwashed to believe the West is evil and the US devil must be destroyed I find it very hard to accept he surrended. Wasn't he also a mercenary with the Albanian KLA? A terrorist organisation?

I doubt they would have been called terrorists, because they were on the same side as NATO.

 

[trading_rookie]

I'm sure they were called terrorists, just not publicly ;-)

Kinda like Saddam was an ahole just not on the same scale as Ayatollah or say the Taliban to the former Soviet Union.

Allies today, foes tomorrow! ;-)

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcudlm6tPa0&NR 21 Nazi Chiefs Guilty, Nuremberg Trials. 1946/10/08 (1946)

Note the reference (at 0m 15s) "flags of the victorious allies sitting in judgement on the international military tribunal, fly over the court building"
Not used since then till David Hicks (my understanding, but someone might correct me)
Also the company that received the same "tribunal treatment" (not that I'm suggesting you watch all of fthis - you get the ghist after just a few minutes) :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJcXPCxlzI&mode=related&search=

Herewith quote by Chief Minister Stanhope of ACT.:-
“Let’s not forget that the US Supreme Court eventually ruled that those [recent] tribunals were indeed inadequate and illegal, and that the processes to which Mr Hicks and others were being subjected breached the Geneva Conventions," said Mr Stanhope.
“What Mr Howard and his Ministers seem to be saying is that if only Mr Hicks had been willing to surrender his right to a fair trial, he could have had a swift one. Under what possible twisted reading of the law would that constitute justice?"

 

[Julia]

My heart goes out to David Hicks' father. He has spent the last six months trying to arrange for a phone call to his son. It was finally agreed to and was to have taken place today. However, David apparently refused to speak to his father, who interprets this refusal as an indication of his son's deteriorating mental state.

I have no opinions re David Hicks - don't know whether he's simply silly or had a more malevolent intent. But I can't begin to imagine how difficult it must be for his father at this distance with no resolution to his son's situation seeming to be near. He has behaved with immense dignity throughout what must be a parent's worst nightmare.

Julia

 

[2020hindsight]

How the hell Hicks hasn't gone mad (or maybe he has?) is amazing.
Let's not forget the captured "allies" flipped like flies during the Korean brainwashing days.
PS might have to pin you down one of these days Julia - - what's your opinion of a man's right to a fair trial?

 

[Julia]

How the hell Hicks hasn't gone mad (or maybe he has?) is amazing.
Let's not forget the captured "allies" flipped like flies during the Korean brainwashing days.
PS might have to pin you down one of these days Julia - - what's your opinion of a man's right to a fair trial?

2020,

Don't mind being "pinned down" on this at all. Of course, Hicks should have had a fair trial long before now. I was just avoiding passing an opinion on what he may or may not have done as I simply don't know.

Julia

 

[2020hindsight]

j, thanks, we sure agree on the first point re a speedy trial - (and further to your previous post, he should be in sound mental health, not this solitary-induced depression). I also agree that discussions about what he did or didnt do is pretty much speculation until then. As if you could believe any propaganda out of Canberra on this issue! Or believe Bush when he says "he's the worst of the worst". Pots and kettles come to mind.

 

[Prospector]

Charge the man, properly try the man, sentence the man if found guilty......isnt that what we would all expect of a civilised society?

I suspect Hicks is now probably bordering on insanity, does that mean he can't be tried?

 

[2020hindsight]

I notice David Hicks has been allowed to see the sun 3 times since early December. Even a dog is entitled to get some Vitamin D.

IMO, when we follow USA (under it's present leadership!) you have to realise that they might just leave us in a real pickle. I mean the Bali 9 had the same problem. There were leaders (who probably deserve a decent jail sentance, albeit not death) and the mules (who sureyl qualify for lesser, BUT because of association, get a serious sentence as well).

My point is ...as an uncle of mine used to say "tell me a man's company , and I'll tell you his name."

Meanwhile we tag along behind the USA with "yes sir , no sir", "three bags full sir". We are going to be branded with all the same attrocities that USA are committing. i.e. nonrecognition of the Geneva Convention for starters.

We say " WE would recognise Geneva, but we have no influence over our friend USA, and ACCEPT that they don't recognise it." IMO, this is following a leader who is becoming increasing morally bankrupt on a daily basis.

Here's the latest on the genius's running the CIA... and how Germany treats them - and how it protects it's citizens.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200702/s1837872.htm
Germany issues warrants to arrest CIA agents
Germany has ordered the arrest of 13 suspected CIA agents over the alleged rendition of one of its citizens.

Prosecutors in Munich have confirmed that the warrants are linked to the case of Khaled al-Masri - a German national of Lebanese descent. In 2003, Mr al-Masri was on holiday in Macedonia when he says he was abducted by the CIA, flown to a secret prison in Afghanistan and tortured.

He says he was released in Albania five months later when the Americans realised they had the wrong man.

The warrants are based on information from Spanish police, where the flight carrying Mr al-Masri is thought to have originated. Prosecutors say the names on the warrants are all aliases and their next step will be to find out the real names of the suspects.

the other good quote recently :- Ruddock saying he didnt ask the USA for check on Hick's medical condition because they would probably have said "no"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200701/s1837506.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200701/s1837355.htm
Stott Despoja predicts election backlash over Hicks
Democrats Senator Natasha Stott Despoja says the Federal Government will suffer at the election if it does not allow David Hicks to be examined by a team of independent medical experts.

Mr Hicks refused to meet an Australian consular official overnight because he feared he would be punished. Senator Stott Despoja wants a cross-party delegation to go to Guantanamo Bay to meet Mr Hicks and check on conditions at the camp.

She says an independent medical team should also be flown to Cuba to check on Mr Hicks's health. "His emotional, physical and mental state is, at best, questionable," she said., etc

 

[Kauri]

I have just heard on the radio that the Americans have admitted forcing Dave Hicks to look at photos of Saddams execution. They claim it was for his intellectual stimulation... and I thought I had heard it all..

 

[2020hindsight]

I have just heard on the radio that the Americans have admitted forcing Dave Hicks to look at photos of Saddams execution. They claim it was for his intellectual stimulation...

Gee, you start to wonder if, just as Saddam's executioners have embarrassed themselves on illegally taped footage - being shown to be ridiculing Saddam to the very end of his life (yuk), so too the Americans with Hicks? except they aren't embarrassed maybe?

How can a man go on trial after months of being treated like this?
We are seeing this for just one Australian, - it starts to sink in what Palestinians and others must feel about these "champions of democratic justice" that USA claim to be? Someone should tell the USA that this is seriously counterproductive.

 

[greggy]

Gee, you start to wonder if, just as Saddam's executioners have embarrassed themselves on illegally taped footage - being shown to be ridiculing Saddam to the very end of his life (yuk), so too the Americans with Hicks? except they aren't embarrassed maybe?

How can a man go on trial after months of being treated like this?
We are seeing this for just one Australian, - it starts to sink in what Palestinians and others must feel about these "champions of democratic justice" that USA claim to be? Someone should tell the USA that this is seriously counterproductive.

I like to separate the two cases. Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator, but by executing him they've turned him into a "martyr" for extremists.
Its about time Mr Hicks is given a fair trial ASAP. The wait is getting beyond a joke. Mr Howard has finally taken up this issue, slow in taking it up, but better late than ever. A number of small "l" liberals who are soft Howard voters have been disappointed by his slow response. Hopefully, he can use any leverage that he has to make ammends. I think that the US generally mean well, but on both the Iraq issue nd Mr Hicks, they have gone too far,

 

[2020hindsight]

I like a quote from Richard Gere's movie "Primal Fear"
"If you want justice go to a whorehouse
If you want to get fu**ed go to court"

I think he meant to (an american govt manipulated) court"

 

[greggy]

I like a quote from Richard Gere's movie "Primal Fear"
"If you want justice go to a whorehouse
If you want to get fu**ed go to court"

I think he meant to (an american govt manipulated) court"

Hi 2020hindsight,

..Very interesting quote. I haven't heard that one before. Colourful language, perhaps you're a lawyer yourself (joking!).
I'm generally an optimist and hope one way or another that Mr Hicks finally gets a fair trial.

Regards,

Greggy

 

[2020hindsight]

greggy interesting the charge that has been "drafted"
interesting also :-

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200702/s1839545.htm
The chief US military prosecutor at Guantanamo Bay wants to charge him with attempted murder and offering material support for terrorism. Both offences carry a maximum penalty of life imprisonment. The US has dropped previous charges of aiding the enemy and conspiracy.

The new charges need to be formally approved by the Pentagon official overseeing the military tribunal process before Hicks can again face trial.

Hicks's US military lawyer, Major Michael Mori, has questioned why his client has been charged with attempted murder when even the chief prosecutor agrees Hicks never fired a shot at anyone in Afghanistan.

there's that word "military tribunal" again.

Going back a week or two, I loved it when Downer said "let's get one thing straight - Hicks WAS charged!" - yes Mr Downer, but it was shown to be a bogus charge and a bogus court system so that hardly counts does it. the fact that it's been changed (after 5 years) is possibly relevant as well?
Recently he came up with "only the Labour party and AQ lovers are campaigning" or words to that effect. Morally illiterate, these pollies.

I only wish I had more than one vote to influence this one. Maybe I should do what the pollies do, and organise some "branch stacking" (jokin lol - I wouldn't stoop to the ethics of pollies - or the pathetic spin doctoring for that matter)

PS greggy - no Im not a lawyer i'm a simple technocrat - to be honest I'm surprised only a handful of lawyers are contributing to the debate in the general media.

 

[2020hindsight]

so of the two charges, the attempted murder doesn't seem to have any grounds (never fired a shot at anyone - admitted by prosecution), and the second is retrospective.
And in any case it will be months/ years before they formally give him his day in court.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200702/s1839820.htm
Govt challenged over Hicks 'retrospective' charge
The Federal Opposition has accused the Government of double-standards over the draft charges announced for David Hicks. The 31-year-old is set to be charged with attempted murder and providing material support for terrorism.

Labor's Kelvin Thomson says the second charge is retrospective as it was only passed into American law last year.

He has questioned why the Australian Government will not introduce retrospective laws to try Hicks here. "Will [Attorney-General] Philip Ruddock raise with the US its plan to try David Hicks under a retrospective law or does he believe that it's not okay to charge David Hicks in Australia under retrospective Australian law, but it is okay to charge David Hicks under retrospective American law at Guantanamo Bay," he says.

Meanwhile, lawyers for Mr Hicks have warned the Prime Minister a trial is a long way off, despite the announcement of draft charges. His Sydney-based lawyer, John North, has told Channel Seven there is still pressure on John Howard to call for Mr Hicks's release.