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new girl said:
Geez!,
, I'm off, its late and I can see this will be quite a read in the morning.
David Hicks protests
- Thread starter Bobby
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Geez!,
, I'm off, its late and I can see this will be quite a read in the morning.1- how can you have a framework of war when someone says to you love your enemy? its a politicall framework and people who choose to follow it do that because they're evil not because they're christians.wayneL said:
2- Zionists ARE NOT CHRISTIANS, they're zionists, and they are NOT a great bulk of the evangelical movement, the majority are baptists (born again), catholics, anglicans and charasmatics.
3- I am worried like you but that doesn't distract me from knowing what islam and jihad is and what it can do.
4- A very very important issue to me is the way islam treats women, but you need a separate thread for that!
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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new girl said:
FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism.
New Girl
Discussion turns to argument when refutation of points are based on opinion rather than fact.
No-one wins an "argument", so I'm outta here.
chops_a_must
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Well, hedonism is a form of philosophy and some would consider enlightenment...new girl said:
The Islamic Empire provided Averroes with the ability to advance thinking 500 years. His model guaranteed the individuality of the intellect, something which Descartes' system could not, and was ship wrecked (lame pun if you've read the 6th meditation) upon a philosophy more than 400 years earlier than it. This failure is known as the many-minds theory (Macdonald 2004: p.354-5). The individuality of the intellect was not guaranteed in the west, until Kant's Critiques.
But most importantly, his interpretations on Aristotle were applied by Aquinas for use in Christian philosophy, and then of course Heidegger and a whole host of especially German philosophers (abid: p. 170-173).
He also wrote a whole host of important and ground breaking medical documents. A pretty crappy explanation is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes
As for the circulatory system, proof:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulatory_system#History_of_discovery
chops, my philosopher friendchops_a_must said:
As I told you before, I know NOTHING, nothing whatsoever about philosophy
ALL those achievments mean SH!!T to me because the way islam treats women IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!! you love freedom so much, try for a couple of minutes and imagine how it would be like to be a woman under the talaban authority, feel their pain my friend, don't only analyse it!!
chops_a_must
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That's not what we were debating.new girl said:
Women are oppressed in a lot of cultures, not just under the Taliban. I could come up with an enormous list of the places that deliberately disadvantage women in the world. It is not mutually exclusive to the Taliban or Islam. Not to say that it isn't awful, just that it is present in a lot of places.
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new girl said:chops, my philosopher friend
As I told you before, I know NOTHING, nothing whatsoever about philosophy
ALL those achievments mean SH!!T to me because the way islam treats women IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!! you love freedom so much, try for a couple of minutes and imagine how it would be like to be a woman under the talaban authority, feel their pain my friend, don't only analyse it!!
How are Muslim women treated on a day to day basis (in laymans terms) eg Are they beaten/abused etc. etc. just to give us a picture of what goes on?
AGAIN, the difference is that it comes with the absolute authority of GOD ALL MIGHTY. this is not about culture, its about religion, which according to muslims can't EVOLVE like culture does because GOD doesn't evolve or change!! There is no way out for women. And what makes it even worse is that half of these women are brain washed and believe its GOD's will and the other half is scared to death from the men who are in control.chops_a_must said:
AGAIN, you have to care about the issue/topic/people that you're discussing if you want to be a great thinker, not just a good one!!!! because only then you can change things.
have a look at "Religious leader condemns RAPE" post #21, it gives a quick summery. A woman is under the mercy of a man (father, brother, husband) if he's kind (and there are kind men of course) then she's fine, but that's not freedom, is it barney?barney said:
chops_a_must
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You also can't make people free. It's something people have to figure out for themselves. Just as a side note... how did you manage to break out of the cycle new girl?new girl said:
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new girl said:
Way back there , post #77
I'll make this small text size 1, because it has been completely superceded by events. We need a bottle of port in here !, better take all the baseball bats outta the room tho lol.
ng, to be honest , I also found those paragraphs in wikipedia a bit strange -
I'm not agreeing with them either (nor disagreeing I guess) - just putting them out there (and I thought I had a quizzical tone when I did so).
Perhaps Wikipedia has to be taken with a pinch of salt occasionally? - but then again - MAYbe , just maybe , they can justify this reference to "mujahideen of peace" (??) They list a stack of references after their definitions, no doubt some lean one way and some the other - making the final "summary" a bit of a confused 'camel' (i.e. a horse designed by a committee)
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ng, I posted this elsewhere.. concerning Women in Iran. and , lol, more importantly (equally in your eyes? lol) engagement with Iran over nuclear etc.
The title of her book is confusing in itself - if it is about - or even covers - freedom for women. Again I found this a bit strange and out of step with "other input" reaching my head. (Like in the movie "number 5 is alive" - and he has to pause before accepting new data) She hits a number of snags trying to make the road ahead look rosy - few potholes and bumps if you ask me. (imho) BUT I definitely agree that "prejudice" should be replaced by dialogue, albeit open eyed and cautious (and ever vigilent etc).
PS ever see the movie " Not Without My Children?" with Sally Fields - oh boy, Iran under the old regime I guess. (or current?). Before that they were pretty liberal (under the Shah) 
The title of her book is confusing in itself - if it is about - or even covers - freedom for women. Again I found this a bit strange and out of step with "other input" reaching my head. (Like in the movie "number 5 is alive" - and he has to pause before accepting new data
) She hits a number of snags trying to make the road ahead look rosy - few potholes and bumps if you ask me. (imho) BUT I definitely agree that "prejudice" should be replaced by dialogue, albeit open eyed and cautious (and ever vigilent etc).PS ever see the movie " Not Without My Children?" with Sally Fields - oh boy, Iran under the old regime I guess. (or current?). Before that they were pretty liberal (under the Shah)
2020hindsight said:Way back there , post #77
I'll make this small text size 1, because it has been completely superceded by events. We need a bottle of port in here !, better take all the baseball bats outta the room tho lol.
ng, to be honest , I also found those paragraphs in wikipedia a bit strange -
I'm not agreeing with them either (nor disagreeing I guess) - just putting them out there (and I thought I had a quizzical tone when I did so).
Perhaps Wikipedia has to be taken with a pinch of salt occasionally? - but then again - MAYbe , just maybe , they can justify this reference to "mujahideen of peace" (??) They list a stack of references after their definitions, no doubt some lean one way and some the other - making the final "summary" a bit of a confused 'camel' (i.e. a horse designed by a committee)
mornin 2020
sorry if I sounded angry, maybe that was out of line. I know you didn't agree, I guess I was upset with wikipedia or life itself?? I tend to be a bit bold when i'm upset, sorry
oh one day we will have a bit of port together, I promise
wayneL
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new girl said:mornin 2020
sorry if I sounded angry, maybe that was out of line. I know you didn't agree, I guess I was upset with wikipedia or life itself?? I tend to be a bit bold when i'm upset, sorry
We have a tradition of group hugs here at ASF after threads like this.
We've never had a lady in one before... are you in?
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lol - I'm in and no probs ng
listen as for Iran and letting them have uranium or not - just had a thought
maybe Peter Garret will go over there sort it out. give him something easy for his first assignment lol.
"Sure it's all about promoting Oil!!- MIDNIGHT OIL folks
..a one and a two and a one two three four...
oops just dislocated my knee"
and no probs ng listen as for Iran and letting them have uranium or not - just had a thought
maybe Peter Garret will go over there sort it out. give him something easy for his first assignment lol.
"Sure it's all about promoting Oil!!- MIDNIGHT OIL folks
..a one and a two and a one two three four...
oops just dislocated my knee
"2020hindsight said:lol - I'm in
listen as for Iran and letting them have uranium or not - just had a thought
maybe Peter Garret will go over there sort it out. give him something easy for his first assignment lol.
"Sure it's all about promoting Oil!!- MIDNIGHT OIL folks
..a one and a two and a one two three four...
oops just dislocated my knee
I will respond to the Iran post later today, I have to go somewhere, but as promised we will have some port together one day and I'll apologise properly then
Prospector
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Wasn't all that long ago that Christian marriage vows for women stated "love, honour and OBEY". Now, to me that says that women must do everything that the husband wants, including sex on demand if that is what he wanted. And how the man decided to enforce that marriage vow was entirely up to him. And if maybe he went too far, well, a good dose of confession in the confession box and some hail mary's would see him right in the eyes of god.
And maybe we need to do some research on how women in Roman Catholic communities are treated, particularly in Ireland not all that long ago. And those methods were encouraged by the Catholic Church and enforced by the Pope.
Islam is not on its own when it comes to institutional maltreatment of women.
And maybe we need to do some research on how women in Roman Catholic communities are treated, particularly in Ireland not all that long ago. And those methods were encouraged by the Catholic Church and enforced by the Pope.
Islam is not on its own when it comes to institutional maltreatment of women.
