David Hicks protests

[bel532]

Let Hicks recant and then, and only then, should we reconsider his case.

Live by the sword, die by the sword!

 

[Kauri]

That's really not a good outcome though...

Depending which camp you are in, and ultimately for justice, possibly not.... for Hicks and his family, considering the possible alternatives, I think it is the best he could hope for.... for Johnny H and his flagging ratings, guilty but also brought home, almost a perfect political result.

 

[chops_a_must]

Depending which camp you are in, and ultimately for justice, possibly not.... for Hicks and his family, considering the possible alternatives, I think it is the best he could hope for.... for Johnny H and his flagging ratings, guilty but also brought home, almost a perfect political result.

I can see it as only a good result for Johnny and George.

This is disasterous for everyone else. It means that if challenges to the supreme court are successful, the sentence for Hicks will still stand.

And in a way, Hicks has justified his treatment and the process by pleading guilty.

Forget the fact that this could have been done within the first month of him being captured. The moron brigade (majority of orrrstralians) wont recognise this fact, or the fact that he has probably been forced to plead guilty.

I mean christ, the poor guy has been fed nothing but hallucinogens for the past 3 weeks. Imagine trying to make a decision regarding the rest of your life when you are in that situation, and not allowed access to a doctor! This was admitted on Lateline last night, if anyone watched it. It would have been absolutely hilarious if it wasn't the most tragic thing I have heard. No doubt this was a tactic to get him to become more malleable.

And the saddest thing is, he will likely end up serving more time than the prison guards at Abu Ghraib ever will. And what for? Never firing a shot?

If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine.

Cheers,
Chops.

 

[Kauri]

And the saddest thing is, he will likely end up serving more time than the prison guards at Abu Ghraib ever will. And what for? Never firing a shot?

If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine.

Cheers,
Chops.

...Forget the guards at Abu Ghraib, what about this turkey??? Justice is alive and well..... if you are american!!!

9th March 2007, 12:49 WST
A US Navy medic who pleaded guilty to kidnapping in the murder of an unarmed Iraqi man who was forced into a hole and shot was released on Thursday on a reduced sentence for good behaviour.

Seaman Recruit Melson J Bacos, 21, had been sentenced to 10 years in prison, but a pretrial agreement capped that sentence at 12 months. His lawyer said the sentence was further reduced.

Members of the US Marine squad with Bacos have said they placed a gun and a shovel by the body of Hashim Ibrahim Awad, 52, to make it look as if the Hamdania resident were an insurgent planting a bomb.

Bacos has emerged as a key player in the criminal case. According to testimony, he was the first to tell investigators his squad had dragged a civilian from his home and shot him.

Five of the troops have pleaded guilty to reduced charges; three are still awaiting trial. One Marine originally pleaded guilty to murder but later withdrew that plea and is now pleading not guilty.

Bacos was the first to strike a plea deal with prosecutors, speaking of his conflicting feelings as the killing took place.

"Why didn't I just walk away?" Bacos said in October.

"The answer to that question was I wanted to be part of the team. I wanted to be a respected corpsman, but that is no excuse for immorality."

Bacos' lawyer, Jeremiah Sullivan III, said if Bacos behaves well and testifies in upcoming trials, he may be allowed to stay in the Navy.

 

[2020hindsight]

ABC news :- "David Hicks likely to be back in Aus by the end of the year."
Next question, will that be before or after the election ?
I wonder if he'll be allowed to write a book. - or like Corby that would be proceeds of crime

 

[2020hindsight]

Lol, as you say Kauri - the USA have lost all cred.
and... Just as the Libs are saying that "there - because he's pleaded guilty it proves he was a "terrorist" all along".

so too this post below proves that Santoro was innocent lol...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1883007.htm
Santoro cleared over aged care bed licences. The new Minister for Ageing, Christopher Pyne, has cleared predecessor Santo Santoro over claims he allocated aged care beds to a friend's business. Mr Pyne says a review has found that Senator Santoro did nothing wrong in allocating 94 aged care bed licences to a Liberal Party member and friend Russel Egan Jr.

"We had no reason to believe that anything untoward had occurred with respect to the allocation of beds," he said. "It entirely exonerates the minister and confirms that the process was utterly above board."

But Mr Pyne says Senator Santoro and Mr Egan were not interviewed as part of the investigation. Labor's Jan McLucas says it is a sham. "This review was predictably a whitewash," she said. Labor maintains an independent review is needed.

Seems that the outcome "entirely exonerates the process"

 

[rederob]

Let Hicks recant and then, and only then, should we reconsider his case.

Live by the sword, die by the sword!

Actually, why don't we bring him back here and try him properly.

Oops, we haven't got anything to charge him with.

OK, best he rot in Guantamo given he's pleaded guilty.

By the way Charles, what do you want him to recant?
Just curious.....

 

[2020hindsight]

isn't that .. "live by the sword, die by the smartbomb"?

 

[Julia]

I mean christ, the poor guy has been fed nothing but hallucinogens for the past 3 weeks. Imagine trying to make a decision regarding the rest of your life when you are in that situation, and not allowed access to a doctor! This was admitted on Lateline last night, if anyone watched it.
Chops.

I didn't see the programme. Can you provide a link to support the above, e.g. that "he has been fed nothing but hallucinogens for the past 3 weeks".

 

[moXJO]

Actually, why don't we bring him back here and try him properly.

Oops, we haven't got anything to charge him with.

OK, best he rot in Guantamo given he's pleaded guilty.

By the way Charles, what do you want him to recant?
Just curious.....

Wow so if we can get around the law and have the opportunity to shoot people we should take it.Hell lets get this going ,if we can do the wrong thing even though by law your not doing the wrong thing we could really have a blast.So long as we dont get caught by the U.S.Oh wait he didnt shoot anyone (that we know of anyway) and those training camps would have just been dance lessons.Just showboating in a warzone or two.Because he cant be guilty after such a long thread

 

[chops_a_must]

I didn't see the programme. Can you provide a link to support the above, e.g. that "he has been fed nothing but hallucinogens for the past 3 weeks".

"STEVEN MILES: No, they produced one press statement saying that they gave him this medication. But what they did not produce is - for all of these interrogations, there's a minute by minute interrogation log. There's also a pre and post medical log and there is intra-interrogation medical logs as well. None of those documents have been supplied by the military. Furthermore, they have not supplied the interrogation plan which was requested of the Defense Department for Mr Hicks, which would be a document which would also say whether or not medications were on the list. Finally, as a physician, Benadryl is not a drug that’s part of any GI cocktails that I use as a doctor. I have no idea what the military meant in making a statement that it belongs in a GI cocktail."

 

[bel532]

Rederob asks 'what was David Hicks accused of'?

If Rederob doesn't know that, then he must be living in a tent, with Hicks perhaps?

 

[chops_a_must]

Rederob asks 'what was David Hicks accused of'?

If Rederob doesn't know that, then he must be living in a tent, with Hicks perhaps?

No he didn't meat head.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Bringing Hicks home would be a do gooders wet dream

 

[rederob]

Bringing Hicks home would be a do gooders wet dream

You are perhaps an expert, Snake?

 

[rederob]

Rederob asks 'what was David Hicks accused of'?

If Rederob doesn't know that, then he must be living in a tent, with Hicks perhaps?

I am curious as to the level of comprehension of those that support the US cause.
Charles, do take care to read what I post, and not choose words that suit your cause: Lest I accuse you of not being too bright.
I suspect very few actually realise that Hicks has only pleaded guilty to one of the charges at this point in time.
And if anyone cared to read the charge sheet, they would realise Hicks' ability to defend that charge would be extremely tenuous.
As for those that think the trial process is fair, read what the civilian lawyers had to say - those that were not allowed to represent Hicks after they were removed yesterday from the case. Yet another refused to sign the "blank cheque" of court regulations that were yet to be promulgated thereby removing himself from Hicks' representation.
Not too much reporting of these matters as the "guilty" plea has ruled the airwaves.
After 5 years in the conditions Hicks' has suffered it's amazing he hasn't owned up to assassinating President Kennedy!

 

[2020hindsight]

A few points that have not had much disussion (that I have seen) :-

a) they sacked half his lawyers (2 out of 3 - leaving Mori alone) - now that's a good start isnt it ? sounds pretty fair doesn't it ? - sounds like he's really gonna get justice ( "sign up to the rules , although they have yet to be promulgated !!" ). At one point David asks the court, "are you gonna sack all my lawyers then?"

b) reason he hasn't been exercising is that (some of ) the other far worse AQ detainees have been giving him a hard time in the exercise yard accusing him of being a CIA plant.

c) first conversation with his father was quite awkward - inhibited, mental scars etc - second conversation his emotions (and his father's) broke up - after that his father felt sure he would opt for plea bargain "just to get out of the place". - I mean , who would make a decision to "fight on " when you've just had a sneak glimpse of "humane treatment" - see your dad after years etc - temporary reprieve after his 5 year predicament / torture / solitary / defence team decimated / hostile fellow inmates / knowing you'd never get a fair trial anyway. Everyone and Anyone would plead guilty! - Something like "Bad-cop-good-cop" magnified by 10,000!!

d) sounds like Hicks made the decision almost irrespectve of the legal advice, the defence say " David was the boss, he makes the decisions" paraphrasing

e) latest comment from Canberra "ohh, he was guilty all right , he PLEADED guilty, and everyone knows that when you plead guilty you've admitted the crime --- when you plead guilty you don't go home that night" - lol - guess what , he hasn't been allowed to go home for 5 years . .

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1883018.htm
Hicks 'pleaded guilty to get out'. Terry Hicks says his son David pleaded guilty to supporting a terrorist organisation just to get out of Guantanamo Bay. Mr Hicks spent several hours inside the US naval prison in Cuba with his son, who has been there for the past five years.

Terry says David has put on a great deal of weight and has puffy eyes. He says David was hard to talk to at first but the 31-year-old began to open up during a second, more emotional meeting. "The emotions finally took over so it's good, I don't mind shedding tears, we're all in the same boat," he said.

He says David has not been able to exercise because he is abused by other prisoners. "The detainees yell out abuse at him and they say he's being paid by the CIA and all this sort of business to spy on them - that sort of thing," he said. "So he's under quite a bit of stress through that. He won't go out into the exercise yards because he's been abused verbally from the rest of the detainees, so that's not good.

"We could tell by the second conversation that he was desperate, he just wanted to get out." Terry says he doubts Australians will view his son as a terrorist.

The chief United States military prosecutor, Colonel Moe Davis, has refused to disclose the sentence prosecutors will ask for but says David Hicks is likely to be back in Australia within months. "We've said all along this was not a life sentence case, so it'll certainly be something much less than that we ask for," he said. "Somebody asked a long time ago if it was possible that he'd be home before the end of the year and if I was a betting man I would say the odds are pretty good."

Lawyers dismissed. Hicks pleaded guilty after two of his lawyers had been dismissed from the courtroom. Hick's US civilian lawyer, Joshua Draytel, says he was dismissed from today's military commission hearing because he was being asked to sign a blank cheque on how the defence team could operate.

Mr Draytel refused to sign a tribunal agreement because he says it asked the defence to abide by existing regulations when the regulations had not been promulgated. He has told the ABC's 7:30 Report it would have set a terrible precedent and would have been a disservice to his client.

"I liken it to, if you're on a train and the tracks go only so far as to the gorge and stop in the middle of the gorge, and yet we continued full speed ahead in that direction knowing that those tracks go off a precipice," he said.

Mr Dratel says he cannot comment on the advice he gave Hicks. "Obviously David is the person who makes those decisions - ultimately he's the client and in that sense he's the boss," he said.

"We just provide advice and our expertise in respect to the issues." Mr Draytel says Hicks's sentencing will be the end of a long ordeal. "This is really the beginning of a process that I hope will make David whole again," he said.

Meanwhile, South Australian Premier Mike Rann says it is not yet clear whether Hicks could be held in one of the state's prisons, but he has no objection to that happening.

f) this is just a fairly irrelevant theory - "he looked swollen, puffy around the eyes". If that means "not fat as such", then that might imply drugs rather than food (that's just a theory)
g) I also heard that Lateline Chops - so much conveniently missing evidence, record of "interrogations" that they are supposed to keep by law (what laws they have in this game) - no doubt one of the requirements after Abu Ghraib investigations that showed the system up to be what it is . "Anti American" to treat people like that etc . Seems that "Anti American" is just a few rungs down the ladder from "Anti human". And in my opinion miles down the ladder from "Anti-Australian" ( by which I'm talking about the average judge in the street, not Canberra spin).
PS despite the fact that a few months back he was "one of the worst 20 terrorists in the world" , Moe Davis now says that "we said all along this was one of the minor offences in Guantanimo inmates - a betting man would say he'll be "home" by the end of the year !" - remember that quote fellas, as you get your Texas-style linch ropes ready .

 

[2020hindsight]

After 5 years in the conditions Hicks' has suffered it's amazing he hasn't owned up to assassinating President Kennedy!

and heaven forbid we should suggest that we're still waiting for the real people to own up there.

heard an interview on ABC - top Aus scientist who was very senior in NASA - happened to be in Dallas Texas when JFK was shot - was in fact in a meeting waiting for him - delays etc - told he'd been shot - didnt realise it was fatal - until later. He spoke of the "real sense of evil" that emerged out of that incident in the weeks and months that followed when the cred of the authorities started to be tested.

 

[Julia]

"STEVEN MILES: No, they produced one press statement saying that they gave him this medication. But what they did not produce is - for all of these interrogations, there's a minute by minute interrogation log. There's also a pre and post medical log and there is intra-interrogation medical logs as well. None of those documents have been supplied by the military. Furthermore, they have not supplied the interrogation plan which was requested of the Defense Department for Mr Hicks, which would be a document which would also say whether or not medications were on the list. Finally, as a physician, Benadryl is not a drug that’s part of any GI cocktails that I use as a doctor. I have no idea what the military meant in making a statement that it belongs in a GI cocktail."

And from this you feel able to say that "he had been fed nothing but hallucinogens for days" (I think those were your words).? !! Benadryl is an antihistamine. It is not an hallucinogen. Big difference.

Here is a description of Benadryl:

Diphenhydramine is an antihistamine used to relieve symptoms of allergy, hay fever and the common cold. These symptoms include rash, itching, watery eyes, itchy eyes/nose/throat, cough, runny nose and sneezing. It is also used to prevent and treat nausea, vomiting and dizziness caused by motion sickness. Diphenhydramine can also be used to help you relax and fall asleep.

If he was nauseated, which I gather he was, the above appears to provide some rationale for the use of Benadryl.

I'm not taking sides in this. There was an excellent account of the history of Hicks' activities, one by one, decision by decision, on "PM" Radio National I think either last night or the night before that.

I do, however, have a problem with extravagant and possibly baseless statements such as the above re hallucinogens.

Julia

 

[bel532]

Poor David Hicks,that person who was so badly treated at Guantanamo Bay that, surprise surprise, he looked so healthy! According to his cheer squad we were lead to believe we would be seeing a skeleton in court, since, according to them.he was so badly treated. Well how wrong they were. I wonder if they will now apologise for their infamous, distorted propganda.

For the record, so we can be certain that David was no angel, he:

* has admitted to his extensive links with terrorist organisations,

* went to Afghanistan and met with Osama Ben Laden and undertook an al-Qaida training course in the use of weapons and terrorist tactics,

*went to Albania to fight with the Kosovot Liberation Army,

* called the Taliban the 'best in the world'and praised them for running the country according to strict Islamic law.

*received insrtuctions by al-Qaida in weapons training.

*urged an Islamic revolution hoping that it would spread throught the world so that the 'Western-Jewish domination is finished.

If you believe all the propaganda about Hicks you, like the Democrats, must also believe in the 'fairies at the bottom of the garden'.

Oh yes Hicks was definitely 'an innocent abroad'.