Costello on Stimulus Debt

[Pappon]

Very empty words unless you can prove it!

Again - what would the deficit be in 2 years time if the Libs were still in? (Ie let's assume your hero Costello actually had some intestinal fortitude).

How long would that take to pay off compared to the current forecast scenario?

Answers with workings will receive bonus marks

Beej

Let's see how much you like that $900 handout when taxes start to rise to pay it back i hope you don't have a family to look after when that DOES happen and don't argue that "if labor didn't throw the cash handouts unemployment would be higher". Unemployment is GOING HIGHER!! OMG OMG the handouts ARN'T WORKING!!!!!

The cash handouts don't work to inspire CONFIDENCE in the economy a very IMPORTANT thing.

I've always looked at the people who vote labor as vastly under educated and people who voted for liberals as extremely educated

BELOW IS TAKEN FROM THE AUSTRALIAN NEWSPAPER
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV


"But one of Australia's leading budget experts, Access Economics' Chris Richardson, suggests that Treasury has underestimated the collapse in company taxes due to the recession and the cratering of commodity prices. If so, it would further expose the structural reduction in the income tax base produced by six years of income tax cuts and the two more annual rounds scheduled to come.

That would push the budget deeper into the red than Treasury forecasts. It also would mean that the deficit will not whirr back into the black as quickly as in previous economic recoveries. Richardson suggests "fiscal drag" -- the increased tax take as wage inflation pushes taxpayers into higher tax brackets -- will have much less bite in the next recovery. "This will be a long, hard grind," he warns."

 

[moXJO]

But past Liberal government failures don't enter into your thinking?

(for moXJO) Now THAT'S gold!

.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't know I could vote them in during the last election

 

[MrBurns]

Labor -

Cash handouts destructive to everything except Rudds standing in the polls.

Doubling of FHBG - only hepls Vendors dispose of property at high prices and stuffs FHB's who are sucked into the housing bubble head first.

Al adding to Labors list of failures taking working families down - once again.

 

[Beej]

If Libs make mistakes there's always enough in the coffers to fix it unlike Labor droobs who just stuff it up then p#ss off and leave the mess for others.

Except of course for that pesky Liberal John Howard who when he was treasurer left an ALMIGHTY mess to be cleaned up by the following Labor government - you know, the one that put the budget in surplus for the first time in several decades?

And what about the mess that Howard/Costello left this time around? Aren't you one of the guys always going on about the the credit bubble etc? You don't think your heroes were complicit in creating that? And isn't that the primary cause of the current mess that now has to be dealt with?

Not to mention that as a proportion of GDP the Howard government was the biggest spending federal government in our countries history! Much of it squandered on wasteful exercises like all the bloody adverts for work choices etc etc. Where's the fiscal prudence in THAT that you are all harping about?

Let's see how much you like that $900 handout when taxes start to rise to pay it back i hope you don't have a family to look after when that DOES happen and don't argue that "if labor didn't throw the cash handouts unemployment would be higher". Unemployment is GOING HIGHER!! OMG OMG the handouts ARN'T WORKING!!!!!

Pappon - I got zilch from the hand outs - don't support them either. My point is in the big picture it doesn't make much difference. Cash stimulus can't stop the inevitable - so of course unemployment is going higher. It's like a shock absorber that's all - best you can hope for is it makes things a little less bad.

PS: I do have a family, and believe me I know about high taxes - I lived and worked through the aftermath of the 80s and 90s recessions - my experience from all that is it is not going to make ANY difference whether it's Labor or Liberal - they have both caused the type of things in the past that everyone is worried about (debt) - it's just many here have very selective memories because they are partisan!

PPS: Your Australian quote just proves my point - a big deficit was coming no matter who was in government. The decline in corporate tax receipts due to recession and commodities bust is outside the control of any government, even if it was ran by Peter "Clarke Kent" Costello!

Beej

 

[Soft Dough]

I mean Labour has made financial mistakes of course, but to completely dismiss that the liberal's wouldn't have brought us to the same conclusion we are in now, you would have to be delusional

They are both useless.

Liberals in their inefficient and reckless tax cuts

Labour in their inefficient and reckless handouts

the first one was squandered on residential property = loss of opportunity cost of mining proceeds.

the second one was squandered on plasmas = profit to China.

 

[Pappon]

They are both useless.

Liberals in their inefficient and reckless tax cuts

Labour in their inefficient and reckless handouts

the first one was squandered on residential property = loss of opportunity cost of mining proceeds.

the second one was squandered on plasmas = profit to China.

I should be prime minister. Everybody would be on a high protein/low carb diet!

 

[MrBurns]

Except of course for that pesky Liberal John Howard who when he was treasurer left an ALMIGHTY mess to be cleaned up by the following Labor government - you know, the one that put the budget in surplus for the first time in several decades?

And what about the mess that Howard/Costello left this time around? Aren't you one of the guys always going on about the the credit bubble etc? You don't think your heroes were complicit in creating that? And isn't that the primary cause of the current mess that now has to be dealt with?

Not to mention that as a proportion of GDP the Howard government was the biggest spending federal government in our countries history! Much of it squandered on wasteful exercises like all the bloody adverts for work choices etc etc. Where's the fiscal prudence in THAT that you are all harping about?

Beej

Ahh gee Beej -

Libs = prosperity

Labor = the great recession

You can argue with me but you cant argue with the facts

 

[Uncle Festivus]

Or we could look past The Cheshire Cat's periodic forays in public pontification on how it should be done etc etc, and see it for what it really is - keeping up appearances for 3 years down the track when all is well and he can have another tilt at the Liberal leadership, after both Rudd & Turnbull have been discarded into the economic and political badlands?

The majority of polititians are cut from the same cloth and only have an agenda covering a timespan of up to the next election?

 

[Soft Dough]

I should be prime minister. Everybody would be on a high protein/low carb diet!

I'll vote for you, but a lot of people will require means tested fibre handouts, as most of the middle class welfare recipients who cry poor are full of....

 

[Pappon]

Ahh gee Beej -

Libs = prosperity

Labor = the great recession

You can argue with me but you cant argue with the facts

MrBurns never in my lifetime have i heard words so powerful that are so true! Liberals hold the highest reward to risk ratio.

Labor uses to much capital on one trade which we all know leads to capital destruction

 

[Beej]

Or we could look past The Cheshire Cat's periodic forays in public pontification on how it should be done etc etc, and see it for what it really is - keeping up appearances for 3 years down the track when all is well and he can have another tilt at the Liberal leadership, after both Rudd & Turnbull have been discarded into the economic and political badlands?

The majority of polititians are cut from the same cloth and only have an agenda covering a timespan of up to the next election?

UF - glad someone else here can see past the partisan spin that is flying left right and centre!

MrBurns never in my lifetime have i heard words so powerful that are so true! Liberals hold the highest reward to risk ratio.

Labor uses to much capital on one trade which we all know leads to capital destruction

Huh! Unfortunately in my lifetime I have heard such obviously partisan and unsubstantiated rubbish many, many times......

 

[Pappon]

Huh! Unfortunately I have heard such obviously partisan and unsubstantiated rubbish many, many times......

Yet you still dismiss the facts as i said liberal voters educated and labor voted uneducated

 

[Beej]

Yet you still dismiss the facts as i said liberal voters educated and labor voted uneducated

Sorry which facts am I dismissing? Your facts as posted simply proved my argument?? All Burnsie posts are partisan opinions unsubstantiated by any facts.

Beej

 

[Mr J]

I don't see this as a problem of parties, but of politicians. What politician would tell the unemployed that they just have to gut it out, that for many it's their own fault that they're losing their home, and to those that lost much of their life savings in the market that it's simply a necessary correction.

No politician is going to take a tough love stance, and they have to be seen as doing something. If they sit on their hands, the public will be out for blood. As always, politicians only think as far as the next election, so they're only going to do what keeps them in power rather than what is good for the majority.

If Howard and Costello would be "better", it's probably because their base is less likely to approve of handouts and higher taxes.

 

[Pappon]

Sorry which facts am I dismissing? Your facts as posted simply proved my argument?? All Burnsie posts are partisan opinions unsubstantiated by any facts.

Beej

FACT labor ruin the country every time their in government

FACT the above statement is true

FACT the prior statement is also true

FACT labor voters dismiss the FACTS

FACT the above statement is true

want anymore FACTS?

 

[Beej]

FACT labor ruin the country every time their in government

FACT the above statement is true

FACT the prior statement is also true

FACT labor voters dismiss the FACTS

FACT the above statement is true

want anymore FACTS?

I thought you were claiming to be educated? Those are OPINIONS - not facts.

In fact when you did post some facts like the below, all you did was substantiate my argument, which is that it would make little/no difference if Costello was still Treasurer or Prime Minister, as the run up of the federal deficit was inevitable:

BELOW IS TAKEN FROM THE AUSTRALIAN NEWSPAPER

"But one of Australia's leading budget experts, Access Economics' Chris Richardson, suggests that Treasury has underestimated the collapse in company taxes due to the recession and the cratering of commodity prices. If so, it would further expose the structural reduction in the income tax base produced by six years of income tax cuts and the two more annual rounds scheduled to come.

That would push the budget deeper into the red than Treasury forecasts. It also would mean that the deficit will not whirr back into the black as quickly as in previous economic recoveries. Richardson suggests "fiscal drag" -- the increased tax take as wage inflation pushes taxpayers into higher tax brackets -- will have much less bite in the next recovery. "This will be a long, hard grind," he warns."

Beej

 

[Pappon]

I thought you were claiming to be educated? Those are OPINIONS - not facts.

Beej

No i think you'll find that

A. Labor = high unemployment and excessive debt burden on Australian taxpayers
B. Labor = always does the above
C. How is this good for Australia? FACT it's not

Labor is not good with money FACT

 

[Pappon]

I thought you were claiming to be educated? Those are OPINIONS - not facts.

In fact when you did post some facts like the below, all you did was substantiate my argument, which is that it would make little/no difference if Costello was still Treasurer or Prime Minister, as the run up of the federal deficit was inevitable:



Beej

I haven't claimed to YOU that the libs would or would not go into deficit that comment in no way relates to me.

In fact what you cut and pasted from a previous post validates my point even more:

LABOR = DEBT = a cold hard FACT

 

[MrBurns]

Pappon is right - the Libs could go into deficit, but the difference between the Libs and Labor doing that is with the Libs you know it's as a result of what's needed to be done and they will be able to handle it whereas with labor you know that it's because they havent got a clue and have no way of knowing if they can get us out of it again.

 

[moXJO]

Lol this thread will go for another ten pages if you two keep stirring up those lab supporters.