Costello on Stimulus Debt

[MrBurns]

We'll have our own recession after the big one is over trying to pay for Rudds ago driven madness.

Labor have NEVER for us out of anything, except prosperity.

 

[[t..o..m]]

Hmm... people seem to forget that the liberals had a larger pre-election (howard vs rudd) budget compared to labour.

The liberals were on a spending spree to gain votes... what would have happened if they remained in government??

 

[Beej]

We'll have our own recession after the big one is over trying to pay for Rudds ago driven madness.

Labor have NEVER for us out of anything, except prosperity.

Again - like a broken record.

You still haven't managed to explained to us how it would be any different if the Libs were still in? What would the debt to be paid back be in that case again? What - $180B instead of $200B? Maybe with even higher unemployment? And higher total dole payments etc? Maybe the Libs deficit would actually be more because of these factors?

Hmm... people seem to forget that the liberals had a larger pre-election (howard vs rudd) budget compared to labour.

The liberals were on a spending spree to gain votes... what would have happened if they remained in government??

It's called VERY selective memory tom

 

[moXJO]

Anyone else think Rudd is a high functioning BPD sufferer: Or am I delusional

 

[tech/a]

They've fallen for the same trap most others have fallen for.

CREATING BAD DEBT.

Debt which has no or minimal on going return.
debt for you and I---the Kids credit card has to be repaid by us and its LAW---Taxes!

I'm in business and cant afford to have BAD non income producing debt. Governments can they just print money.
I do that and I go to jail without my $900!

All governments will eventually come to the same conclusion the US of A came to in the Great Depression.

Get the country investing IN THE COUNTRY.
This country has just lost one of the greatest opportunities to be a GREAT country.
Those billions could have been invested in countless infra structure projects generation 10,000s of jobs LONG TERM.

So we continue to give labour ANOTHER go and EVERYTIME they display complete lack of knowledge of BASIC economics.
In a time where we need EXPERTS.

I'm a little passionate about this.

 

[MrBurns]

Again - like a broken record.

Hey right back at you, you quote dodgy figures over and over again, show us links, evidence.

 

[ands]

Everyone here is biased... Go the Libs!

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

You are truly delusional - you really think governments (and even individual treasurers) cause/stop the economic cycle??????

Not at all. The economic cycle is influenced by policies of various governments which impact each other. Currently we face the problems supposedly borne out of the subprime problem in the US. It is all about bad debt and profligate spending. A deviation from the core principles of fiscal prudence.

In that case do you blame Howard for the early 80s recession? He was treasurer then you know?

I am not blaming anyone for recessions.

Look - this whole argument is bogus and Costello really is full of it. If any of you get sucked in by his spin good luck to you.

Time will tell if it is spin. Thanks for the good luck wish. May luck be with you too.

Me? I don't care who is in government, I don't think the situation would be much different re government debt/deficit regardless under the current circumstances. You can argue around the margins all you like, but the reality is that if you are worried about there being 10/20 years or whatever required to pay down the debt, then that was going to happen regardless given that way events have unfolded.

Well, I care because it will impact on my future. If you don't care just vote for fiscal prudence.

I just hope that things do turn around sooner rather than later so we can get that corporate tax revenue and GST etc flowing and pay off any debt that get's run up as quickly as possible!

Do you think the corporate world is going to pay for all of this? No tax rises for the middle class?

 

[moXJO]

It's called VERY selective memory tom

Hmmm from memory Costello called the financial crisis while Swan was running around saying "we are light years away from recession" . Swan has been the most confused treasurer I have seen in a while.

 

[prawn_86]

APoliticians are all just looking out for themselves. Its the hallmark of a capitalist society why should pollies be any different.

Would you really care what happened as long as you knew you were getting a nice fat pension and consuklting job after a couple of terms?

Im sure some start with good intentions but end up hamstrung by the drawn out political process. A politician is a politician is useless in my books

 

[MrBurns]

Hmm... people seem to forget that the liberals had a larger pre-election (howard vs rudd) budget compared to labour.

The liberals were on a spending spree to gain votes... what would have happened if they remained in government??

Tell you what Tom you'd be out there making money not sitting on a dodgy PC with a can of baked beans in candlelight waiting to get swine flu.

 

[MrBurns]

Hmmm from memory Costello called the financial crisis while Swan was running around saying "we are light years away from recession" . Swan has been the most confused treasurer I have seen in a while.

Confused, in this case = incompetent.

 

[glads262]

Again - like a broken record.

you still haven't successfully explained how it would be any different if the Libs were still in? What would the debt to be paid back be in that case again? What - $180B instead of $200B? Maybe with even higher unemployment? And dole higher total payments etc? Maybe the Libs deficit would actually be more because of these factors?

1. The libs would not have harped on about inflation genie's, and warned people that the economy was out of control. This was poor leadership and poor timing.
2. There would not be a whole lot of people stuck with 8.6% rates on their homeloans for 5 years. I work in a bank, and HEAPS of customers locked in fixed rates because they were frightened by 1. They are paying for it now. If they did not lock in, they would have more spare cash and would not be cutting back now.
3. Libs would have brought forward tax cuts when this thing started, not 6 months after the fact blow $30 billion. This would have cost much less, and had an earlier effect.
4. Libs would not be harping on about a poorly conceived carbon tax (which Penny Wong does not even understand how it will work.) This has been holding back investment for the past 2 years. Investment in electricity generation etc that we need. Hence, growth would be higher (or less negative)
5. Libs would not have put a million dollar guarantee on all bank deposits, when most other counties only had $100k guarantees. This has caused the freezing of billions in assets in mortgage funds, and created more uncertainty.
6. Libs would not be harping on about "GFC this, GFC that, worst GFC since BLAH BLAH BLAH" Mentioning it all the time just makes people more pessimistic.
7. "this will get worse before it gets better" Krudd says this because he wants to be "honest". Well, blind freddy knows this. We need our leaders to say "What an opportunity - this GFC is great, lets move forward with new ideas.

Need I go on??

I would say the Lib's deficit would be probably $20-30 billion less than Krudds over the next four years.

And, Krudd is saying that this 20-30 billion dollar difference is only small change??

As we all know, $20 billion is $2000 per Australian taxpayer.

 

[Beej]

They've fallen for the same trap most others have fallen for.

CREATING BAD DEBT.

Debt which has no or minimal on going return.
debt for you and I---the Kids credit card has to be repaid by us and its LAW---Taxes!

I'm in business and cant afford to have BAD non income producing debt. Governments can they just print money.
I do that and I go to jail without my $900!

All governments will eventually come to the same conclusion the US of A came to in the Great Depression.

Get the country investing IN THE COUNTRY.
This country has just lost one of the greatest opportunities to be a GREAT country.
Those billions could have been invested in countless infra structure projects generation 10,000s of jobs LONG TERM.

So we continue to give labour ANOTHER go and EVERYTIME they display complete lack of knowledge of BASIC economics.
In a time where we need EXPERTS.

I'm a little passionate about this.

Those are great arguments - but on the original topic, would Costello/Howard have done what you are suggesting?? Based on their track record, I'd say the answer is a resounding "no". Costello is not making one single constructive spending suggestion - his only response to attack the debt that would have been built up regardless of who was in government. That's why he gives me the sh*&s!

Do you think the corporate world is going to pay for all of this? No tax rises for the middle class?

Unfortunately I fear the middle class is going to get hit yes (which includes me). But the sooner the corporate money tap flows again the better then regardless!

Cheers,

Beej

 

[Mr J]

Im sure some start with good intentions but end up hamstrung by the drawn out political process. A politician is a politician is useless in my books

I'd agree. Those who were genuine start making so many compromises, that they forget why they're there in the first place. I'm sure others just want to mess around whether it's for ego, self-interest, or the thing to do.

 

[prawn_86]

I'd agree. Those who were genuine start making so many compromises, that they forget why they're there in the first place. I'm sure others just want to mess around whether it's for ego, self-interest, or the thing to do.

We're on the same page here. I would do it just for something to do, after i had made my fortune, much as Turnball etc, but im realistic enough to know that one politician cant make a difference, let alone one vote in a country where the 2 majors are the same

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Those are great arguments - but on the original topic, would Costello/Howard have done what you are suggesting?? Based on their track record, I'd say the answer is a resounding "no". Costello is not making one single constructive spending suggestion - his only response to attack the debt that would have been built up regardless of who was in government. That's why he gives me the sh*&s!

It is the original topic - debt.

Spending is the problem.

 

[MrBurns]

Well just getting back to the original post it's good to see we all agree Costello is spot on once again

 

[[t..o..m]]

Tell you what Tom you'd be out there making money not sitting on a dodgy PC with a can of baked beans in candlelight waiting to get swine flu.

So you attribute the pre-election spending spree by liberals (if they had remained in government) as an economic boost? You can not, in all seriousness, think that if the liberals had remained in power, that Australia would be in some economic bubble that would have protected us from the GFC

I mean Labour has made financial mistakes of course, but to completely dismiss that the liberal's wouldn't have brought us to the same conclusion we are in now, you would have to be delusional

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

So you attribute the pre-election spending spree by liberals (if they had remained in government) as an economic boost? You can not, in all seriousness, think that if the liberals had remained in power, that Australia would be in some economic bubble that would have protected us from the GFC

I mean Labour has made financial mistakes of course, but to completely dismiss that the liberal's wouldn't have brought us to the same conclusion we are in now, you would have to be delusional

Apparantly a lot of us are delusional. Perhaps it is the debt we are concerned about.