Costello on Stimulus Debt

[MrBurns]

Lol this thread will go for another ten pages if you two keep stirring up those lab supporters.

I know, better stop it I've used up most of my standard insults

 

[ands]

We won't even start on state labor especially here in Queensland... Cost blowouts on all infrastructure projects, waiting till everything is in a crisis before they act, waited until we were in drought before they started building the recycled water pipeline and when they finally finished it we were out of the drought. The hospital system is a joke, tried to cover up Dr Death (Jayant Patel) until the opposition made it public. $72 billion debt...

 

[drsmith]

We can only imagine what could have been had Howard handed over to Costello one year or so into the Coalition's last term in government.

 

[MrBurns]

Victoria, state bank gone, pokies in, ticketing system Myki. $500m blowout to $1.3B and way over time now expected in 2010 an election year. Worse than useless.

 

[moXJO]

You Cane toads and mexicans have nothing on NSW Labor party

 

[waza1960]

2 Points: 1/ Peter Costello was not gutless or lacked ambition for the leadership he simply did what was best for the Liberal party something that a lot of people are unwilling to come to terms with because he is highly principled and that is unusual especially among politicians 2/ I cringe whenever Swan is mentioned in the same sentence as Costello,in the substantial time that Costello was Treasurer did you ever see him at any time even for an instant be other than totally at ease with his position or ever make the slightest slip up. Swan on the other hand inspires no confidence looks like a rabbit in the headlights just before getting splatted.

 

[drsmith]

How long before workchoices gets thrown onto the fire ?

 

[So_Cynical]

5 pages of pointless political pondering, and in only 6 hours...well done.

Costello = gutless

 

[aleckara]

Wow this debate is heated.

All I can add to this is that the politicans are only reflecting the masses and their wants. If you want to blame everybody step back out of the culture you were brought up in, your high standards of living - think outside the square. Then realise we are spoiled in Australia and the person you should be complaining about is yourself.

They would get voted out plain and simple if they told people that pain is required to move ahead in the future because we are spoiled and want it NOW. The problem is the politicial system itself - just like American corporations (e.g GM) encouraging good reporting results by quarter over long term planning. Debt by its very nature is good now, pain later which is great for every government who is just looking at the next 3 yearly results. If all you are thinking about is short term you will be like a young girl getting hooked on credit cards - thinking your getting the world, never achieving anything of substance and then looking at all the things you bought later and thinking they were all useless and/or stupid.

i.e compare our government to China's. Sure China's government has committed several human rights abuses, and made many other stuffup's but they have beaten the Western world simply due its short-termism. i.e to name a few examples -

they devalue their dollar, we Westerners see it as a short term cheap source of goods (can't put protectionism now because of course people would protest of higher prices NOW forgetting about the later), and ...

they acquire all the resources from companies who want cash NOW, and gain an increasingly monopolistic position (China has an almost rare-earth monopoly atm and a lot of companies are increasingly getting worried about their ability to manufacture at all due to this including Toyota).

EDIT: What we need is a government that is run a bit more like a club IMO. When revenues are goods horde and save, and make investments later. We pay taxes - the government gets its money for nothing so why should they have to borrow it? They should spend their free money within their means.

 

[Macquack]

Labor as a whole are useless BS artists that do nothing for anybody including their delusional brain dead supporters.

Burns, you have managed to insult more than half the nation, not a statistically clever thing to do.

I invite you to wear a T-shirt printed with your quote :

"Labor as a whole are useless Bull Sh*t artists that do nothing for anybody including their delusional brain dead supporters"

-to the next ALP National Conference (Sydney Convention & Exhibition Centre - 30 Jul 2009 to 1 Aug 2009)

Put up or shut up, Burns.

 

[MrBurns]

Burns, you have managed to insult more than half the nation, not a statistically clever thing to do.

I invite you to wear a T-shirt printed with your quote :

"Labor as a whole are useless Bull Sh*t artists that do nothing for anybody including their delusional brain dead supporters"

-to the next ALP National Conference (Sydney Convention & Exhibition Centre - 30 Jul 2009 to 1 Aug 2009)

Put up or shut up, Burns.

Glad to, non of them can read thanks to State Labor Govt schools.

 

[Macquack]

Glad to, non of them can read thanks to State Labor Govt schools.

I can read and I will make sure I am there to act as an interpreter for any one that cant read.

I would not wont to miss this, it will be a knockout.

 

[MrBurns]

I can read and I will make sure I am there to act as an interpreter for any one that cant read.

I would not wont to miss this, it will be a knockout.

I couldnt bear to be in the presence of such a strong stench of unwashed bodies and rotton teath.

Even if they could keep their hands out of their pants long enough to throw a punch it wouldn't do much good, they're all girls.

 

[Julia]

Mostly they all just follow Treasury advice anyway.... As distressing as this is for many to accept, it's the reality.

Yes, that's probably basically right in terms of whether stimulus should be applied or not. But I believe the cash handouts were unique to Labor and part of Rudd's ongoing campaign to keep himself high in the polls.
The Libs would have been more likely to have moved tax cuts forward and/or spent on necessary infrastructure.

Yet you still dismiss the facts as i said liberal voters educated and labor voted uneducated

I'd like to see some stats on that Pappon. If you consider that most of the 'intelligentsia' are left in their political leanings, e.g. university staff, plus most who have humanities degrees, I doubt your suggestion would be right at all. I've actually been surprised at the people who have not supported the cash handouts and wonder where the Rudd supporters in the polls are coming from.

I don't see this as a problem of parties, but of politicians. What politician would tell the unemployed that they just have to gut it out, that for many it's their own fault that they're losing their home, and to those that lost much of their life savings in the market that it's simply a necessary correction.

No politician is going to take a tough love stance, and they have to be seen as doing something. If they sit on their hands, the public will be out for blood. As always, politicians only think as far as the next election, so they're only going to do what keeps them in power rather than what is good for the majority.

If Howard and Costello would be "better", it's probably because their base is less likely to approve of handouts and higher taxes.

Yes. Popularity rules everything.

2 Points: 1/ Peter Costello was not gutless or lacked ambition for the leadership he simply did what was best for the Liberal party something that a lot of people are unwilling to come to terms with because he is highly principled and that is unusual especially among politicians

Costello highly principled???? Give me a break! He never had the numbers while Howard was still Prime Minister and then when the Libs lost the election he either lacked the guts to take on Opposition leadership, or was simply having a hissy fit and saying ' you didn't offer it to me when I wanted it, so you can just go suck it now". Pretty childish if that was what was in his mind.

2/ I cringe whenever Swan is mentioned in the same sentence as Costello,in the substantial time that Costello was Treasurer did you ever see him at any time even for an instant be other than totally at ease with his position or ever make the slightest slip up. Swan on the other hand inspires no confidence looks like a rabbit in the headlights just before getting splatted.

But yes, I completely agree with you on this. Swan is the worst of bad jokes as Treasurer. If I didn't loathe him so much I'd feel sorry for him. He is way, way out of his depth.

Beej, I'm a swinging voter. Have voted both Libs and Labor, both federally and state. Was quite happy to be open minded about Labor. But all the grandstanding and overblown rhetoric plus the horrible waste of billions in cash handouts just so the next quarter's figures would look a bit better, have removed any confidence I might have had. Consider even just the stupidity of Rudd's saying on the one hand:
"Go out and spend, spend, spend",
whilst on the other continually talking down confidence and increasing pessimism in the community with his endless references to things being "really, really tough:" and "it's going to be a really tough budget but we won't shrink from the tough decisions". OK, we got "tough".

I don't know, but I wouldn't mind betting a proportion of businesses have sacked staff in anticipation of actually needing to do this, just on the basis of the government's mumblings of misery.

Just one question for you Beej: if you could choose to have the Turnbull/Hockey team in charge or the Rudd/Swan one, which would you choose? Or even a further option: Costello/Hockey or even
Turnbull/Costello (though I can't see that working out.)

 

[The Muffin Man]

The country would still find itself in deficit within the next few years if the Liberal Party was in power. It's a simple matter of a severely dwindling revenue base, coupled with higher welfare payments.

In saying that, the Rudd Government should be ashamed of itself with how it has handled things so far. If they are trying to position this country to bounce back and come out of this (what will be) recession stronger, then why was the 'tax bonus' and December 'stimulus' money not directed towards the development of economic infrastructure?

Now we have this 'Building Australia' Fund experiencing a catastrophic shortfall in money because the $20Bn promised was based on future revenue streams.

So to sum up, instead of the Rudd Government using the surplus it had to ensure these economic projects of national significance went ahead, thus creating meaningful employment in the areas of construction, maintenance, and other related services, they gave the surplus away. Their tactic of handing out money to stimulate the economy is akin to a person firing wildly with a machine gun at a target 200m away. Some bullets will hit the target, but many will miss. It's not efficient. How much of that 'stimulus' money went to the pokies? How much was used to pay off the mortgage? How much was used to pay down credit card and personal loan debt? How much was saved? How much was used to fund a holiday to Thailand, flying an airline that employs next to no Australians? How much of the December pension went to pensioners travelling and living overseas? How do any of these uses stimulate our economy and create any jobs? The Labor Government has been telling us how bad this is all going to get, and then expect people to run out and spend their money they receive rather than save it or pay down debt because people are fearing for their job security. It is such an inefficent waste of our surplus.

 

[Beej]

Just one question for you Beej: if you could choose to have the Turnbull/Hockey team in charge or the Rudd/Swan one, which would you choose? Or even a further option: Costello/Hockey or even
Turnbull/Costello (though I can't see that working out.)

Hmmmm - like I said I really don't think it would make a lot of difference, but maybe Turnbull/Costello by a nose if that was really an option. But I think the reality is that they would be dysfunctional politically even if they had the best chance of competence economically. I think Joe Hockey is a purely politically driven buffoon (he was my local member for 8 years before I moved and I've actually met him a couple of times personally), so no way would I want to see him in there as Treasurer if I could choose. So given all of that probably best to stick with the guys who are there right now!

As for the rest of the argument - still haven't seen one answer showing me how if Costello WAS still treasurer how we would avoid a huge deficit? What taxes would he raise? What spending would he cut? Remember you need to find about $150B - $200B worth of increased revenue and/or reduced expenditure over 3-4 years to make up for the loss of corporate, GST and personal tax receipts!

Cheers,

Beej

 

[Macquack]

Even if they could keep their hands out of their pants long enough to throw a punch it wouldn't do much good, they're all girls.

The offer still stands, feel free to wear a skirt with your T-shirt, Mrs Burns.

 

[MrBurns]

The offer still stands, feel free to wear a skirt with your T-shirt, Mrs Burns.

Be bad enought wearing trousers among all those bludging homos, err sorry they're friends of your arent they

 

[moXJO]

As for the rest of the argument - still haven't seen one answer showing me how if Costello WAS still treasurer how we would avoid a huge deficit? What taxes would he raise? What spending would he cut? Remember you need to find about $150B - $200B worth of increased revenue and/or reduced expenditure over 3-4 years to make up for the loss of corporate, GST and personal tax receipts!

Cheers,

Beej

Well for one, Business would still have favorable conditions to operate without the current labor unfair dismissal and other associated crap. Work choices did go too far in a lot of aspects though. But business was more willing to take on extra staff without the fear. While not in the billions, employment stops the drain on welfare and provides taxes. Just this can do a lot for sentiment. You can not say that labor is business friendly just their carbon scheme will cost billions, and force business offshore.
How much in handouts did we waste again? How about a few less subs considering we cant man them all?

Burns, you have managed to insult more than half the nation, not a statistically clever thing to do.

I invite you to wear a T-shirt printed with your quote :

"Labor as a whole are useless Bull Sh*t artists that do nothing for anybody including their delusional brain dead supporters"

-to the next ALP National Conference (Sydney Convention & Exhibition Centre - 30 Jul 2009 to 1 Aug 2009)

Put up or shut up, Burns.

I'll take two That would be a massive laugh. I can wear it on Rove when our PM is on there again trying to be a celebrity to the masses and appeal to his demographic. I'd wear one to the local union meeting if it contained the word corrupt Aholes.
Unfortunately I voted labor on their education revolution spin what a crock that turned out to be. I actually thought the spending on education was a good move.


Petrol watch FAIL

Grocery watch(did this even get off the ground?) FAIL

Knowledge Summit FAIL

Aboriginal Apology HOLLOW WORDED FAIL

Initially Stopping the Solar panel rebate FAIL

Carbon Scheme (Considering the damage it will do to the majority of our industries, and even labor is still unsure how it works) FAIL

Computer for every child at school? (Not to sure of the details of this now, price blow out or scratched?) Given the cost atm and the state of the economy probably a good thing it’s on hold for the moment.

Work Choices (will be interested to see how business responds. They are lucky that they can blame the downturn for job losses atm)

Handouts FAIL
There’s probably plenty more I can't remember

 

[MrBurns]

MrBurns never in my lifetime have i heard words so powerful that are so true! Liberals hold the highest reward to risk ratio.

Labor uses to much capital on one trade which we all know leads to capital destruction

I think it's worth repeating don't you ?

Perhaps a T Shirt ?


Libs = prosperity

Labor = the great recession

You can argue with me but you cant argue with the facts