Coronavirus vaccine news

[moXJO]

I'm actually interested in how bad the symptoms from this strain is?



If it were to run riot obviously it would put more into critical just on the numbers game. But compared to the previous strain how does it compare symptom wise?

 

[Knobby22]

I'm actually interested in how bad the symptoms from this strain is?



If it were to run riot obviously it would put more into critical just on the numbers game. But compared to the previous strain how does it compare symptom wise?

We need to know the ages of the people in intensive care and if there are any pre-existing conditions.
4 in intensive care from 226 - about 2% seems pretty normal if it is a cross section of the population.

On average I would expect one of the four to die, but no one is on a ventilator yet so perhaps not. Very small sample

Peru is meant to be the most honest in keeping stats and also has pretty poor treatment unlike Australia and less testing so will miss many cases.

COUNTRY	CONFIRMED	DEATHS	CASE-FATALITY	DEATHS/100K POP.
Peru	2,057,554	192,687	9.4%	592.69

Australia 30,753 910 3.0% 3.59 United States 33,713,870 605,493 1.8% 184.47

Everyone knows the actual US deaths are actual about 1 million. Ours are higher due to the nursing home outbreak.

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

 

[grah33]

I'm hearing this delta version is basically the sniffles compared to the original. It's more contagious but less lethal.

really ? might just be bull

 

[macca]

Over the past year virologists in the USA have suggested that as the current vaccines do not actually kill Covid they will allow it to mutate within an infected person.

It could quite possibly create a strain that is vaccine resistant, a bit like the over use of Antibiotics allowing new bugs to breed up.

I do agree with the previous posts that we really need to release as much data as possible, informed people usually err on the side of caution.

It is only in the UK and parts of Europe and some third world countries that are releasing accurate data.

I can't find any research in Australia about health deficiencies that heighten Covid effects, we need commentary on the positive and negative effects of exercise, blood conditions, drugs eg: do blood thinners make it worse, what about smokers, asthmatics, vitamins and mineral deficiencies etc etc

Here in OZ afaik no one is doing any actual research on sensible precautions that we as a populous can be taking.

I am quite amazed at the naivette and BS of people who think that Covid will disappear any time soon.

IMO it is just like the flu, it will come around on a regular basis every time it mutates into a new strain.

Funnily enough, the precautions that I find dramatically improve flu prevention also work for Covid (and the common cold) so it is a matter of just keep doing it Macca and Mrs

 

[wayneL]

Hmm so the vaccinated are the real variant factories... That is equally plausible, but of course does not fit the narrative..

It could even be argued that we want more and more variants as the typical path is for reducing lethality as per @moXJO comments earlier.

@macca totally on board with your point re sensible precautions, just like influenza.

 

[bellenuit]

Hmm so the vaccinated are the real variant factories... That is equally plausible, but of course does not fit the narrative..

No, it's not equally plausible. Assuming a vaccinated person with COVID is equally likely to create a variant as an unvaccinated person is, but If the vaccines prevent 90%+ infections in the first place, then vaccinated people in total are only 10% likely to be the breeding ground for COVID varients. And that ignores the multiplier effect of vaccinated people that are not infected, not passing on the virus to others.

 

[IFocus]

I thought variants evolved more from people with compromised immune systems carrying a higher viral load hence higher probability of variants unlike vaccinated persons lower viral load should they become infectious.

 

[wayneL]

I thought variants evolved more from people with compromised immune systems carrying a higher viral load hence higher probability of variants unlike vaccinated persons lower viral load should they become infectious.

Rederob is googling and crafting his ad hominem as we speak ?

 

[moXJO]

really ? might just be bull

Need a larger dataset I suppose. Our numbers are bloody low though. And as I said above "the more cases the bigger the risk".

No, it's not equally plausible. Assuming a vaccinated person with COVID is equally likely to create a variant as an unvaccinated person is, but If the vaccines prevent 90%+ infections in the first place, then vaccinated people in total are only 10% likely to be the breeding ground for COVID varients. And that ignores the multiplier effect of vaccinated people that are not infected, not passing on the virus to others.

This is correct. More people vaccinated means less people will get it, means less chance of mutations.

However if countries are only one dosing or their vaccine is dodge then its a risk based on huge numbers. It won't mutate here imo.

The bigger problem is that I suppose telling the truth of the matter allows anti-vaxxers ammunition. And as a whole I don't think Aussies are keen to jab sht in their bodies from the medical profession. No need to give the screeches any ammo if it's not sensibly used.


If you are 60 and even 55+ I'd go get vaccinated. If you are fit and healthy, I've had friends that got it worse because their immune system fought it for longer (no scientific evidence). It's still worth vaccinating at this point. Just from the point of being able to travel to other countries, those that are vaccinated are more likely to be rubber stamped.

 

[moXJO]

We need to know the ages of the people in intensive care and if there are any pre-existing conditions.
4 in intensive care from 226 - about 2% seems pretty normal if it is a cross section of the population.

On average I would expect one of the four to die, but no one is on a ventilator yet so perhaps not. Very small sample

Peru is meant to be the most honest in keeping stats and also has pretty poor treatment unlike Australia and less testing so will miss many cases.

COUNTRY	CONFIRMED	DEATHS	CASE-FATALITY	DEATHS/100K POP.
Peru	2,057,554	192,687	9.4%	592.69

Australia 30,753 910 3.0% 3.59 United States 33,713,870 605,493 1.8% 184.47

Everyone knows the actual US deaths are actual about 1 million. Ours are higher due to the nursing home outbreak.

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

I was expecting casualties as there were some 70+ yo infected. Who knows if any have prior conditions. But at this point NSW seems to be doing OK.

I know the dipshts on Twitter have been hounding Bjiggles but the contact tracing has been doing a fantastic job so far to keep numbers this low. Everyone is pretty relaxed about it. But a week can make a world of difference.

 

[wayneL]

Need a larger dataset I suppose. Our numbers are bloody low though. And as I said above "the more cases the bigger the risk".

This is correct. More people vaccinated means less people will get it, means less chance of mutations.

However if countries are only one dosing or their vaccine is dodge then its a risk based on huge numbers. It won't mutate here imo.

The bigger problem is that I suppose telling the truth of the matter allows anti-vaxxers ammunition. And as a whole I don't think Aussies are keen to jab sht in their bodies from the medical profession. No need to give the screeches any ammo if it's not sensibly used.


If you are 60 and even 55+ I'd go get vaccinated. If you are fit and healthy, I've had friends that got it worse because their immune system fought it for longer (no scientific evidence). It's still worth vaccinating at this point. Just from the point of being able to travel to other countries, those that are vaccinated are more likely to be rubber stamped.

Just a point @moXJO, the vast majority of the hesitant, aren't "antivaxxers" in any sense of the term. The vast majority are pro vax and have smallpox, tetanus, polio, and whatever vaxes.

But like me, they want a long term data based risk versus reward scenario. That info is not available at this point, hence the hesitation.

 

[Humid]

I was expecting casualties as there were some 70+ yo infected. Who knows if any have prior conditions. But at this point NSW seems to be doing OK.

I know the dipshts on Twitter have been hounding Bjiggles but the contact tracing has been doing a fantastic job so far to keep numbers this low. Everyone is pretty relaxed about it. But a week can make a world of difference.

So whats the concern the mortality of people or businesses you appear to be sitting on the fence with lockdowns

 

[macca]

I can't find any deaths from Covid in Oz this Year (local acquired cases) although they seem very reluctant to make this info easy to find, so I could be wrong,

Meanwhile in the UK it seems they intend to "reopen" even if Delta continues to grow, if we apply that logic here then we should be full speed ahead without any lockdowns

<<Writing in The Mail on Sunday, newly appointed Health Secretary Sajid Javid outlined his mission to “restore our freedoms and learn to live with Covid-19”.

Mr Javid said the government had to “be honest with people about the fact that we cannot eliminate” the virus, and that “cases are going to rise significantly”.

“I know many people will be cautious about the easing of restrictions – that’s completely understandable,” he wrote.

“But no date we choose will ever come without risk, so we have to take a broad and balanced view. We are going to have to learn to accept the existence of covid and find ways to cope with it – just as we already do with flu.”>>

 

[moXJO]

So whats the concern the mortality of people or businesses you appear to be sitting on the fence with lockdowns

No, media sensationalism.
Are we locking down over strong flu like symptoms?
Mortality concerns of which group needs to be pumped full of vaccine to stop bloody lockdowns.

Not sitting on the fence with lockdowns. I want them to stop asap.

 

[moXJO]

Just a point @moXJO, the vast majority of the hesitant, aren't "antivaxxers" in any sense of the term. The vast majority are pro vax and have smallpox, tetanus, polio, and whatever vaxes.

But like me, they want a long term data based risk versus reward scenario. That info is not available at this point, hence the hesitation.

Yes I understand as I'm in the same boat. I don't particularly want to jam some rushed sht into my body. But this means I'm more susceptible to saying "no freaking way" if I read negative data that's been tweaked by anti vaxxers.
I'm aware of a few potential problems with the vaccine and recent studies done. If its a yearly thing then not particularly interested.

 

[SirRumpole]

Not sitting on the fence with lockdowns. I want them to stop asap.

So does everyone.

However I'm going to trust the governments this time, because lockdowns are so politically poisonous that there is no advantage to imposing them unless it's necessary from a public health point of view.

Sometimes tough decisions have to be made.

If you want lockdowns to stop, go and get vaccinated.

 

[moXJO]

So does everyone.

However I'm going to trust the governments this time, because lockdowns are so politically poisonous that there is no advantage to imposing them unless it's necessary from a public health point of view.

Sometimes tough decisions have to be made.

If you want lockdowns to stop, go and get vaccinated.

There is clearly a political divide as evident by Vic and nsw comments. Covid isn't going away for years and lockdowns simply won't be extended into the future. The fastest way out is vaccination. But it won't end the virus or the problems for some time yet.

Unvaccinated will also be at a disadvantage as shown by other countries:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-may-reimpose-covid-19-175021497.html

Some stats from above:

Vaccines have significantly decreased severe illness and deaths in Israel. Even with Delta spreading, the Pfizer vaccine has been 93% effective at preventing hospitalizations, the Health Ministry has reported.

But in preventing infections overall - including mild ones - the vaccine's efficacy has dropped from 94.3% between May 2 and June 5 to 64% from June 6 to July 3, according to the news site Ynet.

About 38% of Israel's population remains unvaccinated, according to The New York Times' tracker. Those people are vulnerable to severe illness and death as case counts rise. It's not yet clear whether vaccinated people with mild infections of the Delta variant can spread it to the unvaccinated.

 

[wayneL]

So does everyone.

However I'm going to trust the governments this time, because lockdowns are so politically poisonous that there is no advantage to imposing them unless it's necessary from a public health point of view.

Sometimes tough decisions have to be made.

If you want lockdowns to stop, go and get vaccinated.

The government and pharmaceutical companies are two entities that would be last a my list of entities to trust, unless there is is sufficient evidence to the country.

Both are capable of tremendous good, but also tremendous evil; that has been shown time and time and time again over the decades.

In my little sphere of crazies and malcontents that is a huge opposition to these vaccines unless there has been normal due process.

Why?

The Hendra Vax.

This was similarly rushed through and what's not given due process. consequently the adverse reactions in horses have been numerous and deleterious... To the point that that was a massive class action against Zoetis (which until fairly recently was a subsidiary of Pfizer).

To my best understanding, the matter was apparently settled out of court with a non disclosure clause and to avoid any sort of liability I don't think I should comment on what I know about that outcome in public.

In my job I got to see many of these adverse reactions and examine the circumstances under which they occurred. Again I should probably leave it there to avoid any possible liability.

I believe they have eventually managed to largely ameliorate that issue, but not before a whole lot of stuff that happened.

That's all I ask for before I get any one of these vaxes. I want to know for sure that the risk vs reward is greater by taking the Vax than by taking my chances with potentially catching the virus (and though 60 next month I am in rude health and read my chances of death or any long-term consequences as virtually zero).

Dammit, I have a greater chance of been taken out by some mongrel horse.

 

[SirRumpole]

The government and pharmaceutical companies are two entities that would be last a my list of entities to trust, unless there is is sufficient evidence to the country.

Both are capable of tremendous good, but also tremendous evil; that has been shown time and time and time again over the decades.

In my little sphere of crazies and malcontents that is a huge opposition to these vaccines unless there has been normal due process.

Why?

The Hendra Vax.

This was similarly rushed through and what's not given due process. consequently the adverse reactions in horses have been numerous and deleterious... To the point that that was a massive class action against Zoetis (which until fairly recently was a subsidiary of Pfizer).

To my best understanding, the matter was apparently settled out of court with a non disclosure clause and to avoid any sort of liability I don't think I should comment on what I know about that outcome in public.

In my job I got to see many of these adverse reactions and examine the circumstances under which they occurred. Again I should probably leave it there to avoid any possible liability.

I believe they have eventually managed to largely ameliorate that issue, but not before a whole lot of stuff that happened.

That's all I ask for before I get any one of these vaxes. I want to know for sure that the risk vs reward is greater by taking the Vax than by taking my chances with potentially catching the virus (and though 60 next month I am in rude health and read my chances of death or any long-term consequences as virtually zero).

Dammit, I have a greater chance of been taken out by some mongrel horse.

Fair enough, however I can see consequences for not being vaccinated in the future.

Inability to travel, maybe being locked out of certain establishments, excluded from certain jobs etc.

I know its potentially a violation of civil rights etc, but I'm pretty sure that's what will happen to some extent.

 

[wayneL]

Fair enough, however I can see consequences for not being vaccinated in the future.

Inability to travel, maybe being locked out of certain establishments, excluded from certain jobs etc.

I know its potentially a violation of civil rights etc, but I'm pretty sure that's what will happen to some extent.

Perhaps, but in so doing we will be kissing our Western Liberal democracy goodbye

Decades ago we sent our finest to fight for this principle. Are we really prepared to give it away so cheaply?