Coronavirus vaccine news

[Ferret]

Just a question? Any Sydney siders here? Are people taking the lockdown seriously? Community cases are going up, this lockdown doesn't look like ending soon.

Things had become very lax before this outbreak. Mask wearing was not required and generally not done. Checking in at venues was often ignored.

Both of these are being observed now, but it seems although people are to stay home except for food shopping, getting vaccinated, exercise etc, the roads are still busy and many people are still out and about. Walking paths around my way are crazy busy.

The last few days around 50% of the people testing positive have been out and about in the community while infected. I think we have some way to go before this outbreak is contained.

 

[grah33]

And "we" are letting it happen. I wish the complicit would wake the f*** up.

Venting your anger like this won't help you. Our left wing friends may find themselves ill-equipped to cope with any future distress later on, should it come.

 

[rederob]

1/ Nonsense, there is no science that shows any more than very marginal efficacy of the five cent asks that the average sheeple wears. there is science showing the efficacy of different types of masks but also the science shows that in common usage the efficacy of such masks are rendered virtually useless unless the same protocols that surgeons use are employed.

Completely false claim - I included 2 examples at post #496

2/ One need not be a scientist to be able to discern bull****, even if one doesn't need to be able to learn how to read scientific literature.

True - I showed a basic chart, and the links I referenced have more graphics to prove the point that most masks are effective.

The takeaway message is that most science is crap.

Your anecdote does not trump what science achieves for society.

3/ Our best interests? at this stage of the game I'm not prepared to give our politicians the benefit of the doubt on this point. It's a complicated point which requires somewha of a treatise and I don't have the time or inclination to do that here and now.

You only needed to revisit the UK and American experiences to see what happened in first world countries with what were assessed as the 2 countries best equipped to combat a pandemic. Again, real world experience suggests your opinions are not well founded.

However as a very anecdotal point and to return to the point of my post above, the police appear to be acting in the interests of those other than the general public IMNSVHO.... And once again I have some personal experience on that point which I am only prepared to divulge to anyone in person.

Another personal opinion from you that would run counter to the vast majority of our population who willingly comply with health orders. I personally think the Bowral shop owners deserve utter contempt and exemplify the worst behaviours that take place when we all need to play our part.

 

[Humid]

I'm not sure where I sit ideologically on that point, (and I think it is somewhat irrelevant to this thread) but I certainly think it would be irresponsible for an adult to smoke when there are children in the car.

And believe you me, I am a victim of it.

However if you are trying to draw some sort of parallel with mask mandates, you are so far off the mark that it's laughable. Please acquaint yourself with the available science with reference to the types of masks that are in common use.

Its illegal in WA

 

[Knobby22]

Things had become very lax before this outbreak. Mask wearing was not required and generally not done. Checking in at venues was often ignored.

Both of these are being observed now, but it seems although people are to stay home except for food shopping, getting vaccinated, exercise etc, the roads are still busy and many people are still out and about. Walking paths around my way are crazy busy.

The last few days around 50% of the people testing positive have been out and about in the community while infected. I think we have some way to go before this outbreak is contained.

Thanks Ferret.
As we have found in Melbourne it only takes one or two nuff nuffs to extend the lockdown by a week or two.

I honestly think they don't care about the small business owners. Just selfish.

 

[Belli]

I found the YouTube vids by Dr John Campbell and a number of his guests very informative. He was a nurse educator (PhD hence the title doctor). Not to everyone's taste apparently but that always seems to be the case.

Here is one vid with Dr Susan Oliver from UNSW.

 

[moXJO]

I'm hearing this delta version is basically the sniffles compared to the original. It's more contagious but less lethal.

 

[bellenuit]

I'm hearing this delta version is basically the sniffles compared to the original. It's more contagious but less lethal.

That seems to be the consensus opinion. But that is something that wasn't originally known, but only came to light over time, as the outcome of infections were analysed. They had to err on the cautious side initially, so hopefully they will lighten up on restrictions with this knowledge.

One issue though is that if serious side effects are 1/3 of what was the case with the original, but it is 3 times more contagious, how should one react? My 1/3 and 3 figures are just hypothetical, but you get the drift.

 

[Knobby22]

I'm hearing this delta version is basically the sniffles compared to the original. It's more contagious but less lethal.

I haven't heard that about delta.

There's 5 people in ICU from less than 200 cases in NSW. And this is the version that killed those two Australian Indians in their 40s that went back to look after their sick parents in India.

 

[IFocus]

Does that meant more get Delta but the same over all number die?

 

[moXJO]

The strain is more contagious but it's apparently weakening in its ability to cause fatalities. Think SARS or some of the previous flu's going around. Not only that but we should be able to catch the weaker version and get better immunity rather than getting an experimental shot.

Don't take it as gospel though as I only briefly skimmed past credentials.
This is not advise to skip the vaccination.

 

[moXJO]

From abc
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-02/delta-coronavirus-variant-symptoms-vaccines-spread/100255804

But with Delta, a headache is the most common symptom, followed by a sore throat, runny nose and fever.

"We have the first data from a study in the UK called ZOE where people self-report their symptoms," Professor Turville said.

"It has found those severe disease symptoms with a loss of smell and shortness of breath, those symptoms have become less common.

"Instead people have symptoms more like the common cold such as a runny nose, sore throat. Unvaccinated people tended to report having a fever.

"So this does look promising and it does look to track a lower severity with the Delta variant."

 

[bellenuit]

Not only that but we should be able to catch the weaker version and get better immunity rather than getting an experimental shot.

There I disagree with you. Apart from the fact the shots aren't experimental (mainly Russian promoted fear mongering), what you are proposing would be greatly experimental. The Delta version may be a weaker, but more contagious version, but like how the original morphed into the Delta version and some other variants, the Delta version could morph into some far deadlier. And if this new variant morphed from the Delta variant is both deadlier and more contagious, then we are in real trouble, particularly if our current vaccines prove ineffective against it.

The likelyhood of a virus morphing into another strain is proportional to the number of people infected. So by letting the Delta variant run rampant we are creating the conditions that could very well cause a potentially catastrophic variant to emerge. That is a very risky experiment. Better to continue promoting vaccinations that stop existing variants transmitting.

 

[moXJO]

There I disagree with you. Apart from the fact the shots aren't experimental (mainly Russian promoted fear mongering), what you are proposing would be greatly experimental. The Delta version may be a weaker, but more contagious version, but like how the original morphed into the Delta version and some other variants, the Delta version could morph into some far deadlier. And if this new variant morphed from the Delta variant is both deadlier and more contagious, then we are in real trouble, particularly if our current vaccines prove ineffective against it.

The likelyhood of a virus morphing into another strain is proportional to the number of people infected. So by letting the Delta variant run rampant we are creating the conditions that could very well cause a potentially catastrophic variant to emerge. That is a very risky experiment. Better to continue promoting vaccinations that stop existing variants transmitting.

No the shots may not do anything to the newer strains as there was something to do with bypassing the immune response. Plus you still get the virus. If its going to morph it will be in 3rd world.

I probably could have chosen a better word. But honestly reading through some of this stuff leads me to believe they are unsure about a lot. The media is also on a bs bender.

From 60+ I would absolutely advise to get vaccinated though. I'm still getting vaccination end of this month.

 

[bellenuit]

The likelyhood of a virus morphing into another strain is proportional to the number of people infected. So by letting the Delta variant run rampant we are creating the conditions that could very well cause a potentially catastrophic variant to emerge. That is a very risky experiment. Better to continue promoting vaccinations that stop existing variants transmitting.

Unvaccinated people are 'variant factories,' infectious diseases expert says​

Unvaccinated people are 'variant factories,' infectious diseases expert says

Unvaccinated people do more than merely risk their own health. They're also a risk to everyone if they become infected with coronavirus, infectious disease specialists say.

edition.cnn.com

 

[basilio]

Grim snapshot of what is happening. The issue of unvaccinated people becoming "variant factories" is well and truly on the table.

Latest news from around the world | The Guardian

Latest World news news, comment and analysis from the Guardian, the world's leading liberal voice

www.theguardian.com

 

[SirRumpole]

I am strongly pro vaccination, but with properly balanced risk.
I won't link to it as it's not yet peer reviewed to my knowledge, but even Pfizer and Moderna are now being closely examined for side effects which are heart related, although I am not aware of attribution of subsequent deaths. The point being, lots of things we voluntarily add to our bodies can cause harm (sugar being one of the very worst on mass consumption).
I don't doubt the delta strain of SARS-CoV-2 is highly infectious, but my personal view is that until we reach high rates of full vaccination we must maintain very strong counter measures to infection irrespective of anyone's vaccination status.
If everything got bad here in a matter of weeks then the relatively small extra numbers of PM-proposed young people AZ vaccinations would not make a meaningful difference. The full benefits of vaccination come after a second dose, and the proven science shows that waiting as many months as possible for that second dose generates the strongest antibody/t-cell response.
Currently the data shows Australia's vaccination rates as near the world average, which is rather pathetic given the number of advanced nations that have run at twice our rate for a considerable time.

I am not suggesting that people with "choice" as option should not be allowed to exercise that choice. I am not offered that choice, however, as for me right now its AZ or nothing! Which is fine, as even if I were younger I would not be in a hurry to take AZ based on available evidence.
What I am saying is right now I don't believe the circumstances warrant young people choosing AZ when the time delay to a safer option would be unlikely to materially affect the spread of the delta strain in the interim.

If the government chooses to tell people under 40 that its ok to take AZ after medical advice, and cover MD's for indemnity against legal cases, then it must start a compensation scheme for patients who are adversley affected by taking AZ.

MD's lives are not at risk, so why indemnify them and not compensate patients whose lives are adversely affected by a government sponsored vaccine ?

If the risks are so low it won't cost much money and will promote increased vaccination confidence.

 

[moXJO]

Unvaccinated people are 'variant factories,' infectious diseases expert says​

Unvaccinated people are 'variant factories,' infectious diseases expert says

Unvaccinated people do more than merely risk their own health. They're also a risk to everyone if they become infected with coronavirus, infectious disease specialists say.

edition.cnn.com

Cnn and guardian are trash factories. They often come up with vague points.But the gist is valid.

However only one dose of vaccine can mutate the virus.

It will be rendered useless if virus mutates enough (it won't mutate here).

Then we have all the dodge vaccines in other countries probably making it worse. And possibly rendering current vaccines useless.
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

Priority vaccination of those 60+ or those already with health issues. As that seems to be the sector that will record fatalities.


But it would be nice to see the figures. If strains are indeed weakening. Sars, avian flu, pig flu, Mars all got weaker in lethality over time without mass vaccines. And they must have mutated lots over time.

I suppose the risk is a fast spreading highly deadly strain gaining traction.

I'm open to the vaccine and I trust the medical profession about as far as I can throw them. There must be huge money being made in this. I'd love to scratch around a few of these names and see who is funding who.

But for now for now the vaccine still makes sense:

Still stops you from severe hospitalisation.

Protects family to a degree.

Stops wasted downtime from being sick.

Can walk around like king sht and let people cough on you. Also knowing you can cough on other people and send them for a trip to hospital.

Can point at unvaccinated people like social lepers.

Can push in line saying "it's ok I'm vaccinated".

Can call police on unvaccinated neighbours.

Can help setup the unvaccinated government concentration camps in Vic, qld, wa at above award rates.

 

[Knobby22]

Can help setup the unvaccinated government concentration camps in Vic, qld, wa at above award rates.

It would only be short term, just release the virus into the camp then after 3 weeks everyone who survived is free to go. ?

 

[rederob]

If the government chooses to tell people under 40 that its ok to take AZ after medical advice, and cover MD's for indemnity against legal cases, then it must start a compensation scheme for patients who are adversley affected by taking AZ.

MD's lives are not at risk, so why indemnify them and not compensate patients whose lives are adversely affected by a government sponsored vaccine ?

If the risks are so low it won't cost much money and will promote increased vaccination confidence.

Consider this:
Under 40's deaths from covid are extremely low.
Under 40s in high risk environments have Pfizer available.
The efficacy of both vaccines is similar after both doses.
AZ is most effective where the second dose is delayed as long as practicable. Generally the minimum wait in Australia is 12 weeks for the second AZ dose. AZ has a quantifiable health risk to young people that is greater than for Pfizer.
Pfizer can be re-dosed after 3 weeks (if supply is available!) so is clearly desirable for those in high risk categories, which logically should include those aged over 60. Instead, we only have AZ as an option unless employed in a high risk occupation/environment.
Adverse reactions from AZ, while rare, are more likely amongst the young.
We don't have adequate supplies of either AZ or Pfizer to do much better in our vaccine rollout.

Our vaccine rollout practices have been determined principally on availability, and then balanced with next best advice (which keeps changing).
WRT to where we are today, I personally cannot see any national benefit in proposing that young people now rush to AZ. We know that Pfizer and Moderna (28-day dose interval), and probably Novovax as well (with a second dose interval of 21 days) will be available in a quantity that will get our population double dosed within the same time or less than using AZ for younger age groups (ie, via substitution).