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ROL
Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion
- Thread starter DB008
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Why not "know" something?
Here's part of the unanimous WHO Resolution which Australia wants to take credit for:
to continue to work closely with the (OIE), the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) and countries, as part of the One-Health Approach to identify the zoonotic source of the virus and the route of introduction to the human population, including the possible role of intermediate hosts, including through efforts such as scientific and collaborative field missions, which will enable targeted interventions and a research agenda to reduce the risk of similar events occurring, as well as to provide guidance on how to prevent infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-COV2) in animals and humans and prevent the establishment of new zoonotic reservoirs, as well as to reduce further risks of emergence and transmission of zoonotic diseases;
The above has been "work in progress" since the Report of the WHO-China Joint Mission on Coronavirus Disease 2019 in February.China has never had any problem with a "review" of what has happened, and has made numerous official announcements in this regard. It's a shame most people just believe what they read in or hear in local media.
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No. B.S.
China is just trying to cover their @rses, period.
But the world will not let the b@stards get away with it.
I'll trust a specialist proffesor in the field over 'his royal redness' thanks.
Feeding WHO fudgey data does not a collaboration make.
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Interesting article from today's Wall Street Journal on COVID-19 deaths. It is behind a pay wall, so I will only include the relevant chart.
Basically it is indicating that apart from Belgium, most other countries/cities are underreporting number of COVID-19 deaths, with those above used as an example. The blue line represents all deaths and the red line COVID-19 attributed deaths. All things being equal, both the shape and magnitude of the red line with 0 deaths as a base, should match the shape and magnitude of the blue line with the dotted line (which is the average deaths over the preceding 5 years) as base. In other words it is saying, all things being equal, anything above the average is likely a COVID-19 death.
The reason it gave for Belgiums exceptionally high per capita rate (shown above are absolute numbers and not per capita numbers) and also its more accurate reflection of reality is: Unlike most countries and many U.S. states, which list only Covid-19 deaths confirmed by tests, Belgium also tallies suspected Covid-19 fatalities.
Although the all things being equal proviso is a big assumption (for instance, have deaths from flu fallen as a result of social isolating), it would appear, as the article suggests, that COVID-19 deaths are underreported.
Basically it is indicating that apart from Belgium, most other countries/cities are underreporting number of COVID-19 deaths, with those above used as an example. The blue line represents all deaths and the red line COVID-19 attributed deaths. All things being equal, both the shape and magnitude of the red line with 0 deaths as a base, should match the shape and magnitude of the blue line with the dotted line (which is the average deaths over the preceding 5 years) as base. In other words it is saying, all things being equal, anything above the average is likely a COVID-19 death.
The reason it gave for Belgiums exceptionally high per capita rate (shown above are absolute numbers and not per capita numbers) and also its more accurate reflection of reality is: Unlike most countries and many U.S. states, which list only Covid-19 deaths confirmed by tests, Belgium also tallies suspected Covid-19 fatalities.
Although the all things being equal proviso is a big assumption (for instance, have deaths from flu fallen as a result of social isolating), it would appear, as the article suggests, that COVID-19 deaths are underreported.
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True but let's not forget that with older aging population, I would expect the deaths sans COVID-19 increasing anyway against the average of the last 5 years, so under reported yes, but probably slightly less than the raw difference between these lines. not trying to minimise the effect, just adding a bit of mathematical correction.On the other end, we may have saved people from the common flu too
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Wuhan Lab asks NewsCorp for tips on viral fabrication: “They’re the experts”
May 26, 2020
WRITTEN BY
Charles Firth
A representative of the Virology Institute of Wuhan has reached out to News Corp to get some tips on how to concoct something so viral that it spreads despite being completely man-made.
It comes after it was revealed that the Sunday Telegraph pretended that a widely available document from the US State Department suggested that the Wuhan Labs had been used to create a man-made version of the virus, even though the document contained no such evidence.
“We just study natural viruses,” said the Director of the Wuhan Institute. “If you want to find an insitution that concocts and then spreads harmful man-made viral things across the globe, you should talk to the people at News Corp. They’re the experts at that.”
A spokesperson at News Corp denied they had concocted the story to try and seed anti-Chinese sentiment in the community. “We’re doing it for lots of reasons. The whole anti-China thing is just one of them.”
https://chaser.com.au/world/wuhan-labs-asks-newscorp-for-tips-on-virus-fabrication/
May 26, 2020
WRITTEN BY
Charles Firth
A representative of the Virology Institute of Wuhan has reached out to News Corp to get some tips on how to concoct something so viral that it spreads despite being completely man-made.
It comes after it was revealed that the Sunday Telegraph pretended that a widely available document from the US State Department suggested that the Wuhan Labs had been used to create a man-made version of the virus, even though the document contained no such evidence.
“We just study natural viruses,” said the Director of the Wuhan Institute. “If you want to find an insitution that concocts and then spreads harmful man-made viral things across the globe, you should talk to the people at News Corp. They’re the experts at that.”
A spokesperson at News Corp denied they had concocted the story to try and seed anti-Chinese sentiment in the community. “We’re doing it for lots of reasons. The whole anti-China thing is just one of them.”
https://chaser.com.au/world/wuhan-labs-asks-newscorp-for-tips-on-virus-fabrication/
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The risks of continuing COVID infections via trade shipping is a long term concern.
Clearly we can't just stop trading.
The cruise ships have stopped, but now another coronavirus risk is looming off WA's coast
Key points:
Clearly we can't just stop trading.
The cruise ships have stopped, but now another coronavirus risk is looming off WA's coast
Key points:
- The Al Kuwait arrived in Fremantle just over a week ago
- Since then about 20 of its crew have tested positive for COVID-19
- Experts say it is a new reality facing import and export businesses
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Donal Trump has decided to withdraw US support and participation in WHO.
I'm not even sure he can actually do this ? What will the House and the Senate have to say ?
And how will this decision enable the US CDC prepare for future epidemics ?
Trump Takes U.S. Out of World Health Organization
— American Medical Association slams president's "senseless" actions
Medical groups react
Patrice Harris, MD, president of the American Medical Association, called the president's actions "senseless" arguing that the U.S. needs all of its global partners to help in vaccine development and to defeat the virus.
"In the grip of a global pandemic that has already killed more than 100,000 Americans, severing ties with the World Health Organization (WHO) serves no logical purpose and makes finding a way out of this public health crisis dramatically more challenging. This senseless action will have significant, harmful repercussions now and far beyond this perilous moment, particularly as the WHO is leading worldwide vaccine development and drug trials to combat the pandemic," Harris said in a statement.
"COVID-19 affects us all and does not respect borders; defeating it requires the entire world working together. In the strongest terms possible, the American Medical Association urges the President to reverse course and not abandon our country's leadership position in the global fight against COVID-19."
The Infectious Diseases Society of America also objected to the president's action.
"As infectious diseases physicians on the front line of combating the current global crisis we stand strongly against President Trump's decision to leave the World Health Organization," said Thomas File Jr., MD, the group's president, in a press release. "This pandemic has demonstrated that neither national boundaries nor political positions can protect us from the spread of an infectious disease. We will not succeed against this pandemic, or any future outbreak, unless we stand together, share information, and coordinate actions."
https://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/publichealth/86775
I'm not even sure he can actually do this ? What will the House and the Senate have to say ?
And how will this decision enable the US CDC prepare for future epidemics ?
Trump Takes U.S. Out of World Health Organization
— American Medical Association slams president's "senseless" actions
Medical groups react
Patrice Harris, MD, president of the American Medical Association, called the president's actions "senseless" arguing that the U.S. needs all of its global partners to help in vaccine development and to defeat the virus.
"In the grip of a global pandemic that has already killed more than 100,000 Americans, severing ties with the World Health Organization (WHO) serves no logical purpose and makes finding a way out of this public health crisis dramatically more challenging. This senseless action will have significant, harmful repercussions now and far beyond this perilous moment, particularly as the WHO is leading worldwide vaccine development and drug trials to combat the pandemic," Harris said in a statement.
"COVID-19 affects us all and does not respect borders; defeating it requires the entire world working together. In the strongest terms possible, the American Medical Association urges the President to reverse course and not abandon our country's leadership position in the global fight against COVID-19."
The Infectious Diseases Society of America also objected to the president's action.
"As infectious diseases physicians on the front line of combating the current global crisis we stand strongly against President Trump's decision to leave the World Health Organization," said Thomas File Jr., MD, the group's president, in a press release. "This pandemic has demonstrated that neither national boundaries nor political positions can protect us from the spread of an infectious disease. We will not succeed against this pandemic, or any future outbreak, unless we stand together, share information, and coordinate actions."
https://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/publichealth/86775
Dona Ferentes
A little bit OC⚡DC
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There are more asymptomatic people than you think
Jill Margo
Health editor
May 28, 2020
As Australia braces for a second wave of COVID-19, two new studies have highlighted the urgent need to determine how common and how infectious asymptomatic carriers really are. Australia needs to know this to sharpen its predictions of a second wave and design interventions..
The two, published on Thursday, have suggested being asymptomatic is very common. The first, an Australian study, showed eight out of 10 people aboard a cruise ship who tested positive had no symptoms. The second, a study of 78 Chinese patients from Wuhan, showed 42 per cent had no symptoms.
Epidemiologist Ivo Mueller from Melbourne’s Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research says “determining the true infectiousness of asymptomatic carriers of all age must now be an urgent priority”
The Australian study led by Professor Alvin Ing of Macquarie University, was published in the journal Thorax. Although all 128 passengers and 95 crew screened negative for symptoms before boarding an Antarctic cruise, it found 59 per cent were infected at the end of it.
One or more aboard must have been asymptomatic or incubating the virus and therefore pre-syptomatic. A total of 132 tested positive. For each one with symptoms, four were asymptomatic.
Professor Mueller told the Australian Science Media Centre that if the same pattern is repeated in countries that only test symptomatic cases, the true burden of infections may be five times higher than currently reported.
Although the high infection rate shows how infectious this virus can be in a confined environment, there were cases where only one passenger in a cabin got infected. This may be due to inaccurate testing. It is possible that some adults with very low, asymptomatic infections may be less infectious.
The ship set sail in mid-March after COVID-19 had been declared a global pandemic. Passengers who, in the previous three weeks, had passed through countries with high infection rates were not allowed to board. The first case of fever was reported on day eight, prompting the immediate adoption of infection control measures. As the ship had no contact with other people for 28 days it was effectively an hermetically sealed environment.
The Chinese study, published as a letter to JAMA Network Open, showed asymptomatic people had milder illness, were more likely female and only shed the virus for eight days compared to 19 days for those with symptoms. They also sustained less damage to their immune systems and had less liver injury. As they were relatively concealed, the authors say it is critical they be identified and isolated as early as possible.
Associate Professor Sanjaya Senanayake, an infectious diseases expert at the Australian National University, says it is not clear if they went on to develop symptoms or some form of malaise.
He says the proportions of asymptomatic cases have differed in other studies from 40 per cent in Iceland, to 18 per cent on a cruise ship, to 30 per cent in Japanese evacuees from Wuhan. Another Chinese study pegged the number at 80 per cent.
“So, it's hard to know which is right," he told the ASMC. “We still don't know for sure the magnitude of the impact that they have on further transmission of cases. Do they generate lots of secondary cases or only a small proportion."
Jill Margo
Health editor
May 28, 2020
As Australia braces for a second wave of COVID-19, two new studies have highlighted the urgent need to determine how common and how infectious asymptomatic carriers really are. Australia needs to know this to sharpen its predictions of a second wave and design interventions..
The two, published on Thursday, have suggested being asymptomatic is very common. The first, an Australian study, showed eight out of 10 people aboard a cruise ship who tested positive had no symptoms. The second, a study of 78 Chinese patients from Wuhan, showed 42 per cent had no symptoms.
Epidemiologist Ivo Mueller from Melbourne’s Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research says “determining the true infectiousness of asymptomatic carriers of all age must now be an urgent priority”
The Australian study led by Professor Alvin Ing of Macquarie University, was published in the journal Thorax. Although all 128 passengers and 95 crew screened negative for symptoms before boarding an Antarctic cruise, it found 59 per cent were infected at the end of it.
One or more aboard must have been asymptomatic or incubating the virus and therefore pre-syptomatic. A total of 132 tested positive. For each one with symptoms, four were asymptomatic.
Professor Mueller told the Australian Science Media Centre that if the same pattern is repeated in countries that only test symptomatic cases, the true burden of infections may be five times higher than currently reported.
Although the high infection rate shows how infectious this virus can be in a confined environment, there were cases where only one passenger in a cabin got infected. This may be due to inaccurate testing. It is possible that some adults with very low, asymptomatic infections may be less infectious.
The ship set sail in mid-March after COVID-19 had been declared a global pandemic. Passengers who, in the previous three weeks, had passed through countries with high infection rates were not allowed to board. The first case of fever was reported on day eight, prompting the immediate adoption of infection control measures. As the ship had no contact with other people for 28 days it was effectively an hermetically sealed environment.
The Chinese study, published as a letter to JAMA Network Open, showed asymptomatic people had milder illness, were more likely female and only shed the virus for eight days compared to 19 days for those with symptoms. They also sustained less damage to their immune systems and had less liver injury. As they were relatively concealed, the authors say it is critical they be identified and isolated as early as possible.
Associate Professor Sanjaya Senanayake, an infectious diseases expert at the Australian National University, says it is not clear if they went on to develop symptoms or some form of malaise.
He says the proportions of asymptomatic cases have differed in other studies from 40 per cent in Iceland, to 18 per cent on a cruise ship, to 30 per cent in Japanese evacuees from Wuhan. Another Chinese study pegged the number at 80 per cent.
“So, it's hard to know which is right," he told the ASMC. “We still don't know for sure the magnitude of the impact that they have on further transmission of cases. Do they generate lots of secondary cases or only a small proportion."
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https://www.tctmd.com/news/lancet-covid-19-hydroxychloroquine-study-faces-data-integrity-questions
hydroxychloroquine hopes were basically destroyed by a recent Lancet report but it may not be all what it seems, there are now high suspicions that the negative report was somewhat very flawn, always remember of the billions involved and lost by major pharmas if such a simple non patented treatment was the solution, plus as Trump touted it, it can only be wrong right?
to get further details DYOR, but there is serious hope still that this could save many lives if allowed to be prescribed.https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/health/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine.html
the study was supposed to have found more deaths in Australia than actually occurred overall.
This anti trump at all cost hysteria is probably now costing lives.
hydroxychloroquine hopes were basically destroyed by a recent Lancet report but it may not be all what it seems, there are now high suspicions that the negative report was somewhat very flawn, always remember of the billions involved and lost by major pharmas if such a simple non patented treatment was the solution, plus as Trump touted it, it can only be wrong right?
to get further details DYOR, but there is serious hope still that this could save many lives if allowed to be prescribed.https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/health/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine.html
the study was supposed to have found more deaths in Australia than actually occurred overall.
This anti trump at all cost hysteria is probably now costing lives.
It seems that locking people down inside could be causing the outbreak to spread, think ships, nursing homes, quarantine at home etc.
This is about Doctors in USA using existing meds, 98% cure, no mention at all in the media.
Among all of the info and counter info the elephant in the room is that people with low Vitamin D seem to get a lot sicker than those with high Vitamin D.
I am only guessing but I think that here in Oz we would have one of the higher Vit D ratios in the world many are light skin colour and most spend a lot of time outdoors.
Perhaps that has helped us minimise the damage, living in separate house would also help a Lot.
Now if we could only get everyone to wear a mask when in an enclosed place with strangers (mainly travelling) we are looking better
- Stay-at-home recommendations may have been a bad idea. In New York, 66% of new hospital admissions for COVID-19 were individuals who had been sequestering at home
- Chinese researchers have noted that a majority of outbreaks in the 320 municipalities reviewed were the result of indoor spread of the disease, with the home accounting for 79.9% of cases https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...d=20200528Z2&et_cid=DM547422&et_rid=881268999
This is about Doctors in USA using existing meds, 98% cure, no mention at all in the media.
- Despite the fact that many critical care specialists are using treatment protocols that differ from standard of care, information about natural therapeutics in particular are still being suppressed by the media and is not received by critical care physicians
- Five critical care physicians have formed the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Working Group (FLCCC). The group has developed a highly effective treatment protocol known as MATH+
- Of the more than 100 hospitalized COVID-19 patients treated with the MATH+ protocol as of mid-April, only two died. Both were in their 80s and had advanced chronic medical conditions
- The protocols call for the use of intravenous methylprednisolone, vitamin C and subcutaneous heparin within six hours of admission into the hospital, along with high-flow nasal oxygen. Optional additions include thiamine, zinc and vitamin D
- COVID-19 kills by triggering hyperinflammation, hypercoagulation and hypoxia. The MATH+ protocol addresses these three core pathological processes
- https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...d=20200529Z2&et_cid=DM547463&et_rid=882000979
Among all of the info and counter info the elephant in the room is that people with low Vitamin D seem to get a lot sicker than those with high Vitamin D.
I am only guessing but I think that here in Oz we would have one of the higher Vit D ratios in the world many are light skin colour and most spend a lot of time outdoors.
Perhaps that has helped us minimise the damage, living in separate house would also help a Lot.
Now if we could only get everyone to wear a mask when in an enclosed place with strangers (mainly travelling) we are looking better
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Ozarks partygoer from Memorial Day weekend tests positive for COVID-19
https://www.kshb.com/news/coronavir...92.893159792.1590795417-1449663002.1585356653
https://www.kshb.com/news/coronavir...92.893159792.1590795417-1449663002.1585356653
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between reduced transmission risk with higher temperature and moisture level: worse is 8C and 64% air humidity; we are actually quite well in australia except down south now,
you can see obvious proof of that in italy and spain exposed regions, the very limited impact in africa and middle east, etcthe great results in summer area (southern hemisphere initially)
Add vit. C and D (already discussed a lot here) not that scary, bad but nowhere near as bad as the propaganda being hammered with
So what’s the motive behind the propaganda?
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Probably to try and increase the media audience, good news doesn't sell as well as bad news, you just have to read on this forum how much good news and positive input is posted?
Dona Ferentes
A little bit OC⚡DC
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to me, the stay at home lockdown was not about being indoors itself, but not mingling or mixing, and thus reduce transmission.
There is never a perfect outcome and, when unknowns dominate the scenarios, as they say, prevention is better than cure.
There is never a perfect outcome and, when unknowns dominate the scenarios, as they say, prevention is better than cure.
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"There is never a perfect outcome" .
Indeed. Quarantining people in their homes will almost inevitably lead to other people in the house becoming infected if one person has the virus. But allowing people to mingle across the community would simply spread the virus much further.
It was always a tough decision. Quarantining households or whole communities has historically resulted in these outcomes. The alternative is just far worse.
There is a very powerful story of such self sacrifice during the plague in England in 1665.
Eyam recalls lessons from 1665 battle with plague
Coronavirus crisis has powerful echoes in the Derbyshire village that once self-isolated to save others
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/eyam-derbyshire-coronavirus-self-isolate-1665-plague
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Now the experts are saying it may have been created in a lab
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...t/news-story/6e0a211af696fa2f30d5e7306dbf4780
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...t/news-story/6e0a211af696fa2f30d5e7306dbf4780