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Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

Will the "Corona Virus" turn into a worldwide epidemic or fizzle out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 49.3%

  • No

    Votes: 9 12.0%

  • Bigger than SARS, but not worldwide epidemic (Black Death/bubonic plague)

    Votes: 25 33.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 5.3%
  • Total voters
    75
Jump to new
US still at 13th position for deaths per million.
And it's funny that the top 5 state's for deaths are actually democrat run. I think the majority are in the top 10 which is interesting.

Interesting mix Trump hating fanatics and CCP shills mixing in b.s..

Yes trump is doing a sht job to a point. But he is basically fighting against the above kind of lies with his own lies. Toxic situation overall.

rederob said:
Not quite.
Here's the offending tweet.
He also responded to Trump's conspiracy theories about China leaking the virus via twitter - effectively a tit for tat - by linking to a well known conspiracy theory circulation in Asia about USA being responsible. US pressure on the source of that link led to it being removed: remind you of any other government that might do that?
Zhao did exactly what the US was doing; spreading baseless rumours. It's not a good look to us back in Oz, but it has never been an official line of the Chinese government that the US actually did what was linked.
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This isn't true either.
China Global Television Network (CGTN which Rob and had quoted from) published an article on March 22 blaming Italy. Cgtn is the govt propaganda mouthpiece along with a lot of others.
They also had a guy Chen Xuyan, a scientist based in Beijing,appeared on CCTV on March 18 blaming the US.

Then we have the 50 cent army of trolls pushing the agenda.

Robs posts may seem surface legit, but they don't tell the full story. Probably why some fall down the rabbit hole.

Question everything in this climate. To much propaganda in the air.
 
The extended article from The Nation I posted earlier offers a comprehensive comparison between the US and Chinese response to the COVID virus.

It also opens the conversation on how the world order may look when the dust (semi) settles.

Plenty of references to every assertion.
 
moXJO said:
This isn't true either.
China Global Television Network (CGTN which Rob and had quoted from) published an article on March 22 blaming Italy. Cgtn is the govt propaganda mouthpiece along with a lot of others.
They also had a guy Chen Xuyan, a scientist based in Beijing,appeared on CCTV on March 18 blaming the US.
Click to expand...
CGTN represents the government line as much as Fox does in the USA.
China's oft repeated official position is as below, in response to a question from the media:
Q: At an interview with AXIOS and HBO, Chinese ambassador to the United States Cui Tiankai said that it was "crazy and very harmful for diplomats to speculate about the origins of the coronavirus". Is it the official position of the Chinese foreign ministry?
A: Recently I have stated China's position repeatedly here on this podium, and I would like to stress that once again.
The origin of the novel coronavirus is a matter of science that requires scientific and professional assessment. There is a clear consensus by WHO and the international community that a virus should not be linked to any specific country, region or ethnic group and such stigmatization should be rejected.
​
A major difference between the USA and China relates to who is out there helping other nations. While people can complain about the lack of quality of some Chinese products, at least China was able to offer something rather than nothing. It's also the case that some nations chose to bypass China's quality assured manufacturers to buy PPE on the cheap. Anyhow, here's some of the countries China has sent expert medical teams to since the outbreak:
 
The Lancet editorial blasts Trump's 'inconsistent and incoherent' coronavirus response


One of the world's oldest and best-known medical journals has criticised US President Donald Trump's "inconsistent and incoherent national response" to the novel coronavirus pandemic and accused the administration of relegating the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention to a "nominal" role.

The unsigned editorial from The Lancet concluded that Trump should be replaced. "Americans must put a president in the White House come January, 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics," said the journal, which was founded in Britain in 1823....
The authors accused the administration of undermining some of the CDC's top officials, saying the agency "has seen its role minimised and become an ineffective and nominal adviser."
They noted that the agency, which is supposed to be the primary contact for health authorities during crises, has been hamstrung by years of budget cuts. The editorial said the administration left an "intelligence vacuum" in China when it pulled the last CDC officer from the country in July 2019.
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The Lancet also took the CDC to task for its botched rollout of diagnostic testing in the critical early weeks that the virus began to spread in the United States. The country remains ill-equipped to provide basic surveillance or laboratory testing to combat the disease, the journal said.
"There is no doubt that the CDC has made mistakes, especially on testing in the early stages of the pandemic," the editorial said. "But punishing the agency by marginalising and hobbling it is not the solution. "The Administration is obsessed with magic bullets - vaccines, new medicines, or a hope that the virus will simply disappear," it continued. "But only a steadfast reliance on basic public health principles, like test, trace, and isolate, will see the emergency brought to an end, and this requires an effective national public health agency.".
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..originally in The Washington Post
 
Yeah both your sources are totally legit. One's spruiking Russian the other China.
The Chinese provided dodgy data. I've posted numerous models and links before. And no it's not just like fox news. Its state sponsored not just ideological aligned.

Official position of China doesn't mean sht when the unofficial position is being pushed across the net. That's how propaganda works.
So far have blamed the Japan, US army, Italian doctor, France, Africans, etc.
 
rederob said:
China's oft repeated official position is as below, in response to a question from the media:
Q: At an interview with AXIOS and HBO, Chinese ambassador to the United States Cui Tiankai said that it was "crazy and very harmful for diplomats to speculate about the origins of the coronavirus". Is it the official position of the Chinese foreign ministry?
A: Recently I have stated China's position repeatedly here on this podium, and I would like to stress that once again.
The origin of the novel coronavirus is a matter of science that requires scientific and professional assessment. There is a clear consensus by WHO and the international community that a virus should not be linked to any specific country, region or ethnic group and such stigmatization should be rejected.
​
A major difference between the USA and China relates to who is out there helping other nations. While people can complain about the lack of quality of some Chinese products, at least China was able to offer something rather than nothing. It's also the case that some nations chose to bypass China's quality assured manufacturers to buy PPE on the cheap. Anyhow, here's some of the countries China has sent expert medical teams to since the outbreak:
Click to expand...

You only show a picture from a very narrow lens.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/3...-what-sticks-propaganda-blame-ccp-xi-jinping/

All their media is state sponsored. If CCP don't like it you get arrested or your family goes under the thumb. Its idiotic to compare it to the tanks who can lie in the media without repercussions.

As for the PPE it's been dubbed "mask diplomacy".
One revealing example is at the state-government level in Wisconsin.

According to the Wisconsin Examiner, a diplomat at China's nearby Chicago consulate emailed the president of the Wisconsin Senate in February and March, asking that he praise China's "transparency" and "unprecedented and rigorous measures" in the epidemic.

The diplomat had even sent a draft resolution, published here by The New York Times, seemingly for Wisconsin to use.
It was not successful: Roger Roth, the Wisconsin Senate president, in his own resolution called out "propaganda and falsehoods" in the Chinese draft.

The Chinese diplomat, named Wu Ting, did not respond to The Times or Examiner's requests for comment.

Sophie Richardson, China director at Human Rights Watch, told Business Insider: "Over the last decade ... I've watched Chinese diplomats and government officials become more sophisticated in how they try to sell their message to the world.

"I can't think of another circumstance in which they have tried to hand a democratic country's state legislature a draft resolution and expect that it would receive the response they had in mind."
Chinese officials and their propaganda machinery are in high gear worldwide trying to paint the Chinese government as the solution to the problem, rather than one of the sources of it," Richardson, of Human Rights Watch, said.

"It's not a government that's capable of tolerating or willing to tolerate accountability at home. And I'm sure the idea of international accountability is not a popular topic in Beijing," she said, noting that China has for years refused to accept responsibility for human rights violations against the Uighurs in Xinjiang.

"What that machine knows how to do is make up a different story that says: 'It's not our fault.'"

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...olitical-points-mostly-not-working-2020-4?amp

Not a lot to do with humanitarian efforts, remembering they drained most countries out of ppe and then sold it back to them.
Great photo op for the people back home. So long as you praise the "saviors"
They are not the only country to do this, sure. But it should be recognised they want to be the number one country in the world. Look how the treat their own people, Tibet, Uighurs, South China sea, even those who want freedom from oppression.

Look how they treated Australia over something minor. Billions in trade over a perceived slight.

Sooner or later the propaganda gets so polished or the truth gets so lost in b.s. stories, people shut off.

Trump is gone either November or the end of the next term. Short term problem. China needs a revolution to be free. Gigantic difference. The left has simply lost their minds over trump. So much so they have also lost the reality we are facing. Trumps scum that will get voted out. Ccp is a beast that will last decades.

Wrong side of history boys.
 
rederob said:
Zhao did exactly what the US was doing; spreading baseless rumours. It's not a good look to us back in Oz, but it has never been an official line of the Chinese government that the US actually did what was linked.
Click to expand...

Point taken.

There is an issue however in that if someone is employed by a government and is speaking or otherwise communicating in an official capacity then it is normally taken that their comments represent the official position of the government in question unless it's clearly stated as a purely personal view. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
Point taken.

There is an issue however in that if someone is employed by a government and is speaking or otherwise communicating in an official capacity then it is normally taken that their comments represent the official position of the government in question unless it's clearly stated as a purely personal view. :2twocents
Click to expand...
True.
But twitter exchanges and any communication for that matter need to be seen in context.
Lijian is paid to respond to what appears in international media and is one of the few in China with Facebook and Twitter accounts.
The international media made a meal of his tweets and actually reported his posts incorrectly. Lijian linked to a now deleted website article which was called "COVID-19: Further Evidence that the Virus Originated in the US." If you believed Lijian was stating that the USA was responsible for the virus then you too have misread the message.
The official position of China on matters is made clear through daily press conferences which everyone can read or view online. These briefings are much more informative than anything from the White House and can be checked against real world events for accuracy. China's "spin" on some topics in no different to what you get in Australia, the USA or anywhere else, and competent people can see through it.
Many here think I am somehow shilling for China.
I simply look at both sides of an issue, and where one side says things that don't add up, then I comment.
Our media is dominated by Murdoch influence. Some of their headlines relating to China and COV19 are totally baseless, while a great deal more is sensationalised beyond reasonable belief. Occasionally the headline and its content don't even match, and is just clickbait.
 
The U.K and Italy to follow the U.S lead, there really isn't going to be a vaccine any time soon or indeed if at all IMO, so people are going to have to learn to live with the virus for the foreseeable future.
I guess if we want to travel overseas, we are just going to have to accept quarantine on return may be a requirement.
Just my opinion, but as the virus is reported to have a HIV component a vaccine may not eventuate, so managing our tourism and the flow of people is going to be extremely difficult.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...annot-wait-for-a-vaccine-20200518-p54ttg.html
 
SirRumpole said:
There would be a risk that it would be rushed out too quickly only to find it didn't work.

Then all hell would break loose.
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If it is rushed out too early, the big problem could be the cure is worse than the disease, so to speak.
They still haven't got a vaccine for HIV, and they have been trying for years, so there is no reason this can't follow the same trajectory just my opinion.
 
sptrawler said:
If it is rushed out too early, the big problem could be the cure is worse than the disease, so to speak.
They still haven't got a vaccine for HIV, and they have been trying for years, so there is no reason this can't follow the same trajectory just my opinion.
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Yes, it could be a lot harder than we thought. I wonder whether someone like Trump will listen to the medical advice and do proper tests, or just rush it out to get a quick fix.
 
SirRumpole said:
Yes, it could be a lot harder than we thought. I wonder whether someone like Trump will listen to the medical advice and do proper tests, or just rush it out to get a quick fix.
Click to expand...
The U.S will do what it always does, charge ahead with the ultimate self confidence, Australia will require the drug to undergo the correct testing IMO.
The problem a lot of people have IMO, they think yanks think like us, I worked/lived with them for a couple of years they don't think like us at all.
90% go to church, they think they are gods chosen children and Trump is their sort of guy.;)
 
sptrawler said:
90% go to church, they think they are gods chosen children and Trump is their sort of guy.;)
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90% - I think it has been less than 50% for a while. They definitely think they are the chosen ones, just ask them to locate (or name) any other country on a map, LOL
The big problem in the USA is that only 50% approve of Trump the other 50% hate him.
It might be the the United States (debatable) but it certainly is not the United People.
 
Jeez Belgium has taken it hard, causing some political backlash.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/doctors-n...minister-during-hospital-visit-011402198.html
From the article:
Staff at Saint-Pierre Hospital in Brussels choreographed a united display of dissent during an official visit from Belgian Prime Minister Sophie Wilmès on the weekend.

Doctors and nurses stood on both sides of the road leading into the hospital’s main entrance. As the prime minister’s car drove in, one-by-one the healthcare workers turned their back on the national leader.
By the official numbers, Belgium has been the worst hit country in the world, on a per capita basis.

The country of just 11.5 million people has experienced a mortality rate of 78.8 deaths per 100,000 people, according to rolling data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.
Comparatively, Spain has a mortality rate of 59, Italy has a mortality of 52.5 and the UK of 51.9 per 100,000 people.

While the the United States by far has the most known cases and deaths, it currently has an official mortality rate of 27 deaths per 100,000 people.

Australia has just 0.39 deaths per 100,000, according to the mortality analysis by the university.
 
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