Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[sptrawler]

Glad you finally worked it out, Redrob is always right, just like the CCP, confuse, evade and never negotiate or discuss.

Shame really, as posters just leave the thread, one b..d apple can ...

I gave up on Rob about 12 months ago, I have only recently taken him off the ignore function, it seems it is still the same $hit on a different day.
I'm not saying Rob hasn't got some great input, it is just he ignores other posters great input, if it conflicts with his.
So discussing anything with him becomes two posts, your opinion, his opinion and then either you agree with his or else.
Rob's way or the highway, you can see why he was a speech writer for a second rate political platform.
Don't let one awkward poster make you leave the forum, just use the ignore function, it works a treat.

 

[bellenuit]

It is impossible to have come from a lab based on what we know.
At least 5 prior conditions needed to be met, sequentially, for the chance to have arisen.
Not one is known to have occurred, and 2 of the conditions are actually impossible based on principles of physics.
It was as likely to have been the tooth fairy.

Again you fail to understand what you are saying. It is possible that it could have escaped from a lab. Possible, but not probable. Do you remember who said this just a few posts back.

At least we know there were major concerns at Fort Detrick's labs, so that's a very plausible lab leak theory.

So what you are saying is impossible appears to be plausible so long as the leak is not related to China. I have not asserted that it was China, just that it is possible for such a leak to happen.

 

[sptrawler]

Again you fail to understand what you are saying. It is possible that it could have escaped from a lab. Possible, but not probable. Do you remember who said this just a few posts back.



So what you are saying is impossible appears to be plausible so long as the leak is not related to China. I have not asserted that it was China, just that it is possible for such a leak to happen.

To my limited knowledge, the fact that in all probability the virus originated in Wuhan and there is a biological test lab there, where they seem to have been researching bat viruses kind of says hey did we drop the ball.
Possibly not but I wouldn't want my balls hanging on it.

 

[Smurf1976]

It was based on early science reported in the media, not Chinese authorities.

To my knowledge the claim originates from the South China Agricultural University and was announced at press conference on 7 February 2020.

That is not the Chinese government I will concede, in the same way as the CSIRO is not the Australian Government and a state police force is not the state government as such. They are however agencies of it as is a public university in China.

You are just paraphrasing a lot of junk from the media with your views rather than the efforts being made by the global science community.

Since I am not a virologist, and make no claim of being one, like 99%+ of the population most of my information on the subject has come via the media yes.

Thankfully however the steps you have outlined as being taken by scientists can be shortcut somewhat. They may not have got the message but Zhao Lijian, China's Foreign Ministry spokesman, has stated that the source was the US military and that the virus was brought to China in October 2019.

Now Mr Lijian is indeed a Chinese government official source.

With stuff like that going on from their own officials, and given the massive consequences of the virus outbreak, it's not hard to see why there's distrust of Chinese authorities.

Personally well I've nothing against Chinese people but every single one I've had any real dealings with has given me the same warning and that being so, I choose to heed it.

 

[moXJO]

I love Rob. I think he might be the forums greatest troll and I'm a little envious.

 

[basilio]

The problem I have with the conversation on whether the COVID virus escaped from a Wuhan lab is ... that it is sucking up all the oxygen in the discussion here and worldwide. In my mind it is a diversion.

I see the determination of Trump to try and pin the origin of the virus on a Chines lab as a bare faced effort to distract attention from his political failure to deal with the virus on US soil. Historically Trump has always created a fall guy for his profound mistakes. His failure to take this virus seriously and prepare appropriately has lead to the needless deaths of tens of thousands of people already. Its a responsibility he will never take and is doing whatever it takes to throw China under the bus.

With that behavior he is effectively poisoning the US and its allies relationship with China. We are in the middle of one of the most dangerous pandemic ever seen and the most powerful nation in the world is effectively starting a cold war with the fourth biggest economy ! How dangerously stupid is that ?? Who in their right mind wants to follow down that path and off the proverbial cliff ?

There certainly should be an independent investigation into all aspects of the outbreak and subsequent responses to this pandemic. We collectively need to learn what happened and how to deal with it better in the future. There is plenty of support for such a process

But it is clear that is not the Trump agenda. They have one and only one intention in mind - to create a current mindset that assumes China was to blame for the outbreak and is therefore responsible and liable for everything that follows. A fall guy to get Trump off the hook.

I have said little in this discussion because

1) The technicals are beyond my skill set and
2) I see it as an essentially poisonous diversion from a more constructive approach.

The expertise I respect and nod to , Dr Fauci and it seems most virologists, don't believe it came from a lab. The US and other intelligence sources can't find evidence for such an accusation. Everyone else thinks attempting to start a one question inquiry right now is a just the most stupid, counter productive activity conceivable.

The biggest thing it's doing is diverting attention from what is happening in the US now and what didn't happen in the US since January this year when it became clear how much damage this virus would do if it was not stamped out.

 

[sptrawler]

I love Rob. I think he might be the forums greatest troll and I'm a little envious.

He certainly is engaging, but highlights his political background, by changing the thrust of the debate when losing.
Which I must say he does well, but it becomes a tedious project chasing him, I gave up long ago.
But he is entertaining, as is Kev and the gang.

 

[Smurf1976]

The biggest thing it's doing is diverting attention from what is happening in the US now and what didn't happen in the US since January this year when it became clear how much damage this virus would do if it was not stamped out.

Strongly agreed.

As the old saying goes - the first casualty of war is always the truth.

In this case there is indeed a war of sorts and it seems that quite a few governments and others are using all the tricks they can find in order to divert attention from their own failings.

The situation in the US sure doesn't look good.

 

[sptrawler]

Strongly agreed.

As the old saying goes - the first casualty of war is always the truth.

In this case there is indeed a war of sorts and it seems that quite a few governments and others are using all the tricks they can find in order to divert attention from their own failings.

The situation in the US sure doesn't look good.

From the very limited information I've seen regarding the U.S, all I can make from it is most are saying who cares let's get on with it, which is kind of the basis their system seems to work on.
The problem we have I think, is we think everywhere is like Australia, when in reality it isn't.
There isn't many Countries in the World with our attributes, we can support those who can't work and also indulge those that don't want to, not many Countries are that fortunate.
It will be interesting to see how the welfare system goes, when the dust settles IMO.
In reality there might not be a vaccine, and this may be something humanity has to live with, like aids.
So if that is the case the U.S and Sweden may well be taking an advantage, if this keeps re infecting and we have shutdowns every year, well I wish you the best trying to run a business.

 

[rederob]

Again you fail to understand what you are saying. It is possible that it could have escaped from a lab. Possible, but not probable. Do you remember who said this just a few posts back..

Logic 101: things are possible if the ingredients exist.
From what we know, the virus was unknown until samples from Wuhan hospitals were tested after people became ill.
We know that the intermediate host species has not been discovered.
It's possible for a virus to leak from a lab if the virus had been known to exist in the lab.
The idea that a virus that was not known to exist had leaked before samples were made available to it does not meet any test of reasonableness.

 

[qldfrog]

I gave up on Rob about 12 months ago, I have only recently taken him off the ignore function, it seems it is still the same $hit on a different day.
I'm not saying Rob hasn't got some great input, it is just he ignores other posters great input, if it conflicts with his.
So discussing anything with him becomes two posts, your opinion, his opinion and then either you agree with his or else.
Rob's way or the highway, you can see why he was a speech writer for a second rate political platform.
Don't let one awkward poster make you leave the forum, just use the ignore function, it works a treat.

So are you talking BS CO2 is cooking the planet, gold future, US is bad, great is China and WHO or covid-19 never came from a lab in Wuhan?
Got confused, that's a lot of lobbying interests to cater for there, more pay cheques i guess?

 

[rederob]

They may not have got the message but Zhao Lijian, China's Foreign Ministry spokesman, has stated that the source was the US military and that the virus was brought to China in October 2019.
Now Mr Lijian is indeed a Chinese government official source.

Not quite.
Here's the offending tweet.
He also responded to Trump's conspiracy theories about China leaking the virus via twitter - effectively a tit for tat - by linking to a well known conspiracy theory circulation in Asia about USA being responsible. US pressure on the source of that link led to it being removed: remind you of any other government that might do that?
Zhao did exactly what the US was doing; spreading baseless rumours. It's not a good look to us back in Oz, but it has never been an official line of the Chinese government that the US actually did what was linked.

 

[bellenuit]

It's possible for a virus to leak from a lab

Thanks you. That is what I was asserting all along. No more, no less.

 

[basilio]

This is what happens when COVID 19 gets away in a small community.

Donald Trump says America's coronavirus curve is flattening but a second wave is coming for rural communities
The country's most vulnerable communities, lulled into a false sense of security, are getting slammed with America's second wave of the virus right as the rest of the nation sees an overall flattening curve and pushes to move on.

Cuthbert had the highest death rate per-capita in the US
At the time of writing, Cuthbert and the surrounding Randolph County (total population: 6,700) reported 169 confirmed cases and 21 deaths.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-16/coronavirus-second-wave-hits-rural-america/12251058

 

[satanoperca]

It is impossible to have come from a lab based on what we know.

Nothing is impossible, until proven so.

Ie the existing of God is improvable, but not impossible, until proven that it is impossible for an entity to exist, the idea is plausible, the idea is probable, but not provable.

The 3 P's always need to be considered, Plausible, Probable, Provable.

I hope that will give you Redrob a broader scope into present your discussions.

 

[satanoperca]

Don't let one awkward poster make you leave the forum, just use the ignore function, it works a treat.

Not leaving, i face bullies face on, most are cowards, Redrob is just one of many. He will not be the first or the last, life goes on.

 

[basilio]

Back to the disease itself. COVID 9 is a very strange cat indeed.

'Weird as hell’: the Covid-19 patients who have symptoms for months
Researchers keen to work out why some people are suffering from ‘long tail’ form of the virus

....Garner refers to himself wryly as a member of the “Boris Johnson herd immunity group”. This is the cluster of patients who contracted Covid-19 in the 12 days before the UK finally locked down. He assumed his illness would swiftly pass. Instead it went on and on – a rollercoaster of ill health, extreme emotions and utter exhaustion, as he put it in a blog last week for the British Medical Journal.

There is growing evidence that the virus causes a far greater array of symptoms than was previously understood. And that its effects can be agonisingly prolonged: in Garner’s case for more than seven weeks. The professor at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine says his experience of Covid-19 featured a new and disturbing symptom every day, akin to an “advent calendar”.

He had a muggy head, upset stomach, tinnitus, pins and needles, breathlessness, dizziness and arthritis in the hands. Each time Garner thought he was getting better the illness roared back. It was a sort of virus snakes and ladders. “It’s deeply frustrating. A lot of people start doubting themselves,” he says. “Their partners wonder if there is something psychologically wrong with them.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...advent-calendar-covid-19-symptoms-paul-garner

 

[moXJO]

The problem I have with the conversation on whether the COVID virus escaped from a Wuhan lab is ... that it is sucking up all the oxygen in the discussion here and worldwide. In my mind it is a diversion.

I see the determination of Trump to try and pin the origin of the virus on a Chines lab as a bare faced effort to distract attention from his political failure to deal with the virus on US soil. Historically Trump has always created a fall guy for his profound mistakes. His failure to take this virus seriously and prepare appropriately has lead to the needless deaths of tens of thousands of people already. Its a responsibility he will never take and is doing whatever it takes to throw China under the bus.

With that behavior he is effectively poisoning the US and its allies relationship with China. We are in the middle of one of the most dangerous pandemic ever seen and the most powerful nation in the world is effectively starting a cold war with the fourth biggest economy ! How dangerously stupid is that ?? Who in their right mind wants to follow down that path and off the proverbial cliff ?

There certainly should be an independent investigation into all aspects of the outbreak and subsequent responses to this pandemic. We collectively need to learn what happened and how to deal with it better in the future. There is plenty of support for such a process

But it is clear that is not the Trump agenda. They have one and only one intention in mind - to create a current mindset that assumes China was to blame for the outbreak and is therefore responsible and liable for everything that follows. A fall guy to get Trump off the hook.

I have said little in this discussion because

1) The technicals are beyond my skill set and
2) I see it as an essentially poisonous diversion from a more constructive approach.

The expertise I respect and nod to , Dr Fauci and it seems most virologists, don't believe it came from a lab. The US and other intelligence sources can't find evidence for such an accusation. Everyone else thinks attempting to start a one question inquiry right now is a just the most stupid, counter productive activity conceivable.

The biggest thing it's doing is diverting attention from what is happening in the US now and what didn't happen in the US since January this year when it became clear how much damage this virus would do if it was not stamped out.

It is China's fault though. Hiding data and letting masses of people travel is what infected the world. On top of that they are now trying to silence Australia and Europe through trade.

I find it comical that you support a nation that has more human rights breeches then Nazi Germany. But have a bug in your ass over the US because Trump.

Your post are that transparent.

 

[basilio]

On the big picture the US response to the COVID 19 virus both domestically and internationally is fracturing relationships and undermining respect for the United States capacity to be an effective leader.

World looks on in horror as Trump flails over pandemic despite claims US leads way
The president’s outlandish behavior as Americans suffer has inspired horror and confusion while alienating allies

• Coronavirus – live US updates
• Live global updates

Julian Borger in Washington, Helen Davidson in Sydney, Leyland Cecco in Toronto, Daniel Boffey in Brussels Philip Oltermann in Berlin, Angela Giuffrida in Rome, Tom Phillips in Rio de Janeiro and Emmanuel Akinwotu in London

Fri 15 May 2020 18.00 AEST Last modified on Sat 16 May 2020 03.40 AEST
The Trump administration has repeatedly claimed that the US is “leading the world” with its response to the pandemic, but it does not seem to be going in any direction the world wants to follow.

Across Europe, Asia, Africa and Latin America, views of the US handling of the coronavirus crisis are uniformly negative and range from horror through derision to sympathy. Donald Trump’s musings from the White House briefing room, particularly his thoughts on injecting disinfectant, have drawn the attention of the planet.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/15/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-world-leaders

 

[basilio]

Again on the bigger picture.
How did the Chinese and the US respond to the COVID 19 outbreak ?

Comparing the US’ and China’s Response to Covid-19
When humanity emerges from this crisis, the standing global order may look quite different.

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/coronavirus-us-china-response/