Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

Will the "Corona Virus" turn into a worldwide epidemic or fizzle out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 49.3%

  • No

    Votes: 9 12.0%

  • Bigger than SARS, but not worldwide epidemic (Black Death/bubonic plague)

    Votes: 25 33.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 5.3%
  • Total voters
    75
Jump to new
moXJO said:
I get where satan was coming from.
Personally I think we have turned into a nation of narcissistic soft c0cks who don't have their priorities in order. Life of excess is about to come to a screaming halt.

God forbid if war ever broke out.
Click to expand...

Its the biggest world wide disruption in peace time, wars have started over far less so fingers crossed.
 
bellenuit said:
Although it being a man made virus is highly improbable, I believe a question mark should be raised over whether China deliberately wanted to spread the virus to other countries once it had taken hold in its own country.
Click to expand...
Quash one conspiracy theory but start another?
First, all 20th and 21st century viral flu pandemics can all be traced back to the so-called Spanish flu, and this 15 year old book gives some insights, aside from noting we were not getting ready for the inevitable next pandemic.
The logic of a nation initiating a killer virus within in own borders so it could later spread it globally is mind numbingly stupid. To think China is that stupid is even more stupid!
bellenuit said:
The WHO's (or at least their chief spokesman) was gushing in praise for China's actions and when asked about China keeping it quiet for so long avoided answering and just said we should look to the future.
Click to expand...
This is factually false. China advised WHO in late December that there was an unknown cause of pulmonary deaths and acted quickly to determine what it was, providing WHO more information a few weeks later. What was clearly not known was its level of contagion as Wuhan's hospital staff including doctors, were infected and some died.
While there is no doubt that China actively and publicly hid the impending catastrophe from its nation and the rest of the world for many weeks, once they realised what they were up against they did what only China could do and manage. That is lock down, lock in, and lock out people to prevent spread.
Two months later many countries are ambivalent about implementing the totality of China's harsh measures which are proven to have worked - Wuhan lifting many restrictions from April. Trump wants the USA to be back in business after Easter! Really?
Australia's biggest failing to date is to allow schools to remain open. If we are concerned that kids might have nowhere else to go, then offer a safe facility for parents to send their children if they have no alternative. School teachers should not become COVID-19 crash test dummies.
Every virologist will tell you that children are excellent spreaders of germs and diseases, so to think they are somehow immune and will not contribute to further spreading is the most irresponsible case of political mumbo jumbo interpretation of an issue they have not sought to solve via a safe means, ie. ensuring front-line workers can continue to provide essential services without having to worry about what their kids are up to or, for that matter, what food to put on the table.
 
rederob said:
Quash one conspiracy theory but start another?
First, all 20th and 21st century viral flu pandemics can all be traced back to the so-called Spanish flu, and this 15 year old book gives some insights, aside from noting we were not getting ready for the inevitable next pandemic.
The logic of a nation initiating a killer virus within in own borders so it could later spread it globally is mind numbingly stupid. To think China is that stupid is even more stupid!
This is factually false. China advised WHO in late December that there was an unknown cause of pulmonary deaths and acted quickly to determine what it was, providing WHO more information a few weeks later. What was clearly not known was its level of contagion as Wuhan's hospital staff including doctors, were infected and some died.
While there is no doubt that China actively and publicly hid the impending catastrophe from its nation and the rest of the world for many weeks, once they realised what they were up against they did what only China could do and manage. That is lock down, lock in, and lock out people to prevent spread.
Two months later many countries are ambivalent about implementing the totality of China's harsh measures which are proven to have worked - Wuhan lifting many restrictions from April. Trump wants the USA to be back in business after Easter! Really?
Australia's biggest failing to date is to allow schools to remain open. If we are concerned that kids might have nowhere else to go, then offer a safe facility for parents to send their children if they have no alternative. School teachers should not become COVID-19 crash test dummies.
Every virologist will tell you that children are excellent spreaders of germs and diseases, so to think they are somehow immune and will not contribute to further spreading is the most irresponsible case of political mumbo jumbo interpretation of an issue they have not sought to solve via a safe means, ie. ensuring front-line workers can continue to provide essential services without having to worry about what their kids are up to or, for that matter, what food to put on the table.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but the act of hiding it and during Chinese New year was outright negligence. People from all over the world attended.
It was well know as highly contagious and doctors were silenced. It is effectively costing trillions for what they did. They deserve zero praise after the fact.
 
Some in the know predicted this as far back as 2007...front page of a peer reviewed journal publication in a highly regarded academic journal.

journal article.jpg
 
think walking around shopping centers is bad, because the virus is sitting in the air as we walk around and breath it in?
 
sptrawler said:
A success story from the Italian town of VO, everyone tested, wouldn't it be nice to have some test kits. Actually wouldn't it be nice if we actually made the test kits here?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...cking-the-countrys-coronavirus-curve/12075048
Click to expand...

Proof of what many are saying, particularly in relation to the US, that without testing we are working blind. Knowing who is infected makes quarantining easier and more effective. Our goal should be to test everyone.
 
bellenuit said:
Proof of what many are saying, particularly in relation to the US, that without testing we are working blind. Knowing who is infected makes quarantining easier and more effective. Our goal should be to test everyone.
Click to expand...
Our goal should be, to be in a position to make our own test kits, rather than having to get in a queue with most other countries for them.
I bet if the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories (CSL), were still a part of CSIRO, we would be pumping out test kits.
I would love to be proven otherwise.
 
The efforts to tackle the COVID Virus have to be co-operative and international.
Check out what is happening in US

Trump privately appeals to Asia and Europe for medical help to fight coronavirus
Despite president’s rhetoric that the US would not rely on foreign nations for help, the administration has approached European and Asian partners

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-europe-for-medical-help-to-fight-coronavirus
 
wayneL said:
For now, it doesn't matter to us whether it is a natural virus or syntheticly created, we just have to deal with what *is*

There is going to be a huge disinformation program (as always) that will make it so confusing that it will be impossible for we plebeians to get to the bottom of it. So I'm just not going to sweat it.

However as a point, all my science clients (though admittedly none are virologists or epidemiologists) think it is manufactured... so it's not just conspiracy theorists.

<edit to add> though one is a research geneticist , so there's that.
Click to expand...

Have you ever met a plumber with a horse?
 
MovingAverage said:
Two B grade washed up boofheads trying to remain relevant
Click to expand...
Then in the next article I read this.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-eddie-mcguire-shares-bleak-afl-outlook-014357937.html
From the article:
Disbelief over AFL players' 'dumb' act amid crisis
Leading AFL journo Craig Hutchison has delivered a withering rebuke for two North Melbourne players who threw a party in the face of strict social-distancing measures.

Nick Larkey and Cameron Zurhaar, both 21, were the hosts of a gathering[/a] in Kensington on Sunday night, hours after playing in the Kangaroos' win over St Kilda at Marvel Stadium.

ABC&nbsp;she approached the boys and asked them to stop the party." data-reactid="46" style="margin-bottom: 1em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Patricia Ky, an anaesthetist at Royal Melbourne Hospital, told the ABC she approached the boys and asked them to stop the party.

“We all work together so if one of us has it, we all have it,” she claims was the response.

"I spoke to them early in the evening and asked them to keep in mind social distancing, they failed to heed that advice and this morning when I came home from work they were still out, wandering in and out of the house.

So what is it, the P.M is giving mixed messages, or people are just doing what the F*** they like?
I think it is the later myself.
 
rederob said:
Quash one conspiracy theory but start another?
Click to expand...

Saying something raises a question mark based on some questionable actions is not starting a conspiracy theory, particularly when many legitimate sources have also raised concerns regarding those actions. More below.

First, all 20th and 21st century viral flu pandemics can all be traced back to the so-called Spanish flu, and this 15 year old book gives some insights, aside from noting we were not getting ready for the inevitable next pandemic.

The logic of a nation initiating a killer virus within in own borders so it could later spread it globally is mind numbingly stupid. To think China is that stupid is even more stupid!
Click to expand...

I have noticed since I first became aware of your presence on these forums that you have a habit of labelling others stupid. If you read my posts on this subject, you would see that my opinion on that issue is pretty much the same as yours.

I said above in relation to whether it was man made: "It is not out of the question, but as I am no expert in the field I have to rely on those that are. I have read two credible sources that says it is natural and not man made and the sources that claim it is man made tend to be those that push many other conspiracy theories.

If it were man made I also think the release would have had to have been accidental. Infecting your own people deliberately, even if they had a working vaccine and cure, would be a ridiculous thing to do. It could get out of control far too easily. Much better to cause an outbreak near a US military base in Iraq or Germany say and just let the outrage and finger pointing be directed at the US."

I said in a subsequent post: The WHO's (or at least their chief spokesman) was gushing in praise for China's actions and when asked about China keeping it quiet for so long avoided answering and just said we should look to the future.

You replied:
This is factually false. China advised WHO in late December that there was an unknown cause of pulmonary deaths and acted quickly to determine what it was, providing WHO more information a few weeks later. What was clearly not known was its level of contagion as Wuhan's hospital staff including doctors, were infected and some died.
While there is no doubt that China actively and publicly hid the impending catastrophe from its nation and the rest of the world for many weeks, once they realised what they were up against they did what only China could do and manage.
Click to expand...

Here are some news stories from that time.

ME: The WHO's (or at least their chief spokesman) was gushing in praise for China's actions

Chinese officials note serious problems in coronavirus response. The World Health Organization keeps praising them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...63dd7c-4834-11ea-91ab-ce439aa5c7c1_story.html

Even as evidence mounted that Chinese officials had silenced whistleblowers and undercounted cases, Tedros took a moment to extol the leadership of Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Now — more than a month into an escalating global health crisis — there are questions about whether the WHO’s praise in the early weeks created a false sense of security that potentially spurred the virus’s spread.

“We were deceived,” said Lawrence Gostin, a professor of global health law at Georgetown University who also provides technical assistance to the WHO.

....

At a new conference on Thursday, Tedros was asked, again, about China, including the death of one of the Chinese doctors who sounded the alarm on the virus, only to be detained by police. (He later died of the virus.)

He first deferred to a colleague, then took the chance to speak again, defending China’s handling of the epidemic. “It is very difficult, given the facts,” he said, “to say that China was hiding.”

ME: It could possibly be the case that China told him that restricting travel would be counter productive and he just simply assumed that to be the case due to his gushing admiration for what China were doing. But the crazy thing is that allowing unrestricted travel was the exact opposite to the steps China were taking in Wuhan and elsewhere at the time.

From same source:

On Jan. 23, China announced it was expanded the quarantine to other cities — and millions more people.

Later the same day, in Geneva, the WHO decided against declaring a PHEIC. That meant, among other things, no calls for restrictions on travel in and out of China, even as Beijing locked down the Chinese heartland.

China hits back at international travel bans as concerns grow coronavirus could damage economy

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dip...-back-international-travel-bans-concerns-grow

While Chinese airlines have been forced to limit their domestic routes as part of the effort to contain the outbreak, the Civil Aviation Administration of China on Tuesday urged them to maintain their international routes.
....
“In order to meet the needs of passengers in and out of the country and the international transport of supplies during this special period … airlines [are required to] … continue transport to nations that have not imposed travel restrictions.”

Xie Feng, Beijing’s top diplomat in Hong Kong, on Friday accused some nations of overreacting to the coronavirus outbreak.

“We hope countries will respect the professional and authoritative advice of the WHO, maintain normal economic cooperation, trade and people-to-people exchanges … and stop overreacting and fearmongering,” he told a press conference.

ME: gushing in praise for China's actions

Coronavirus: WHO head stands by his praise for China and Xi Jinping on response to outbreak

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...o-head-stands-his-praise-china-and-xi-jinping

The head of the World Health Organisation defended his earlier praise of China’s response to the deadly coronavirus epidemic on Wednesday, questioning critics who disputed President Xi Jinping’s leadership.

At the agency’s daily briefing on the coronavirus – which causes the disease now named Covid-19 – Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the WHO director general, said that Xi had shown the kind of “political commitment” and “political leadership” expected of countries facing a public health crisis.

Tedros made his remarks even while confirming that the Chinese government still has not approved the exact make-up of an advance team WHO wants to send to China to investigate the virus.

“We have met the [Chinese] president. We have seen the level of knowledge he has on the outbreak,” Tedros said at the headquarters of the United Nations health agency in Geneva, Switzerland. “Don’t you appreciate that kind of leadership? We don’t say anything to please anyone.”

ME: and when asked about China keeping it quiet for so long avoided answering and just said we should look to the future.

Coronavirus: WHO chief again deflects criticism of China and seeks US$675 million in aid for developing nations

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soc...hief-again-deflects-criticism-china-and-seeks

Speaking at a press conference in Geneva, WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said China should only be criticised for its response to the crisis if an “after action review” justifies doing so.

Tedros was responding to media comments by John Mackenzie, an epidemiologist who is part of the world body's emergency committee, that Beijing's early response to the outbreak had been “reprehensible”.

In a Financial Times interview published on Tuesday, Mackenzie was quoted as saying that Chinese authorities had sought to keep the infection figures “quiet” during the outbreak's early days.

Tedros, who has been criticised for repeatedly praising China, tried to steer the topic away from Beijing’s actions when asked about Mackenzie's comments.

“Again, I say let’s check,” the director general said. “Maybe we will have the after-action review to see if there was something hidden or not … we will have scientists who will understand, investigate and tell us the truth.

“Now as a global community, please let's focus on the actions we can take today.”


It is hard to see what is factually false about what I wrote in my post. I speculated on a possible reason why China continued to demand of the rest of the world to not restrict travel when it was clearly doing the opposite itself. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus praise of Xi was clearly over the top, on a par with Trump's praise of Trump, and raised eyebrows among many observers, even those within WHO itself.

I don't know why this doesn't raise a question in your mind too.
 
Last edited:
bellenuit said:
Saying something raises a question mark based on some questionable actions is not starting a conspiracy theory, particularly when many legitimate sources have also raised concerns regarding those actions. More below.



I have noticed since I first became aware of your presence on these forums that you have a habit of labelling others stupid. If you read my posts on this subject, you would see that my opinion on that issue is pretty much the same as yours.

I said above: "It is not out of the question, but as I am no expert in the field I have to rely on those that are. I have read two credible sources that says it is natural and not man made and the sources that claim it is man made tend to be those that push many other conspiracy theories.

If it were man made I also think the release would have had to have been accidental. Infecting your own people deliberately, even if they had a working vaccine and cure, would be a ridiculous thing to do. It could get out of control far too easily. Much better to cause an outbreak near a US military base in Iraq or Germany say and just let the outrage and finger pointing be directed at the US."

I said in a subsequent post: The WHO's (or at least their chief spokesman) was gushing in praise for China's actions and when asked about China keeping it quiet for so long avoided answering and just said we should look to the future.

You replied:

Here are some news stories from that time.

ME: The WHO's (or at least their chief spokesman) was gushing in praise for China's actions

Chinese officials note serious problems in coronavirus response. The World Health Organization keeps praising them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...63dd7c-4834-11ea-91ab-ce439aa5c7c1_story.html

Even as evidence mounted that Chinese officials had silenced whistleblowers and undercounted cases, Tedros took a moment to extol the leadership of Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Now — more than a month into an escalating global health crisis — there are questions about whether the WHO’s praise in the early weeks created a false sense of security that potentially spurred the virus’s spread.

“We were deceived,” said Lawrence Gostin, a professor of global health law at Georgetown University who also provides technical assistance to the WHO.

....

At a new conference on Thursday, Tedros was asked, again, about China, including the death of one of the Chinese doctors who sounded the alarm on the virus, only to be detained by police. (He later died of the virus.)

He first deferred to a colleague, then took the chance to speak again, defending China’s handling of the epidemic. “It is very difficult, given the facts,” he said, “to say that China was hiding.”

ME: It could possibly be the case that China told him that restricting travel would be counter productive and he just simply assumed that to be the case due to his gushing admiration for what China were doing. But the crazy thing is that allowing unrestricted travel was the exact opposite to the steps China were taking in Wuhan and elsewhere at the time.

From same source:

On Jan. 23, China announced it was expanded the quarantine to other cities — and millions more people.

Later the same day, in Geneva, the WHO decided against declaring a PHEIC. That meant, among other things, no calls for restrictions on travel in and out of China, even as Beijing locked down the Chinese heartland.

China hits back at international travel bans as concerns grow coronavirus could damage economy

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dip...-back-international-travel-bans-concerns-grow

While Chinese airlines have been forced to limit their domestic routes as part of the effort to contain the outbreak, the Civil Aviation Administration of China on Tuesday urged them to maintain their international routes.
....
“In order to meet the needs of passengers in and out of the country and the international transport of supplies during this special period … airlines [are required to] … continue transport to nations that have not imposed travel restrictions.”

Xie Feng, Beijing’s top diplomat in Hong Kong, on Friday accused some nations of overreacting to the coronavirus outbreak.

“We hope countries will respect the professional and authoritative advice of the WHO, maintain normal economic cooperation, trade and people-to-people exchanges … and stop overreacting and fearmongering,” he told a press conference.

ME: gushing in praise for China's actions

Coronavirus: WHO head stands by his praise for China and Xi Jinping on response to outbreak

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...o-head-stands-his-praise-china-and-xi-jinping

The head of the World Health Organisation defended his earlier praise of China’s response to the deadly coronavirus epidemic on Wednesday, questioning critics who disputed President Xi Jinping’s leadership.

At the agency’s daily briefing on the coronavirus – which causes the disease now named Covid-19 – Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the WHO director general, said that Xi had shown the kind of “political commitment” and “political leadership” expected of countries facing a public health crisis.

Tedros made his remarks even while confirming that the Chinese government still has not approved the exact make-up of an advance team WHO wants to send to China to investigate the virus.

“We have met the [Chinese] president. We have seen the level of knowledge he has on the outbreak,” Tedros said at the headquarters of the United Nations health agency in Geneva, Switzerland. “Don’t you appreciate that kind of leadership? We don’t say anything to please anyone.”

ME: and when asked about China keeping it quiet for so long avoided answering and just said we should look to the future.

Coronavirus: WHO chief again deflects criticism of China and seeks US$675 million in aid for developing nations

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soc...hief-again-deflects-criticism-china-and-seeks

Speaking at a press conference in Geneva, WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said China should only be criticised for its response to the crisis if an “after action review” justifies doing so.

Tedros was responding to media comments by John Mackenzie, an epidemiologist who is part of the world body's emergency committee, that Beijing's early response to the outbreak had been “reprehensible”.

In a Financial Times interview published on Tuesday, Mackenzie was quoted as saying that Chinese authorities had sought to keep the infection figures “quiet” during the outbreak's early days.

Tedros, who has been criticised for repeatedly praising China, tried to steer the topic away from Beijing’s actions when asked about Mackenzie's comments.

“Again, I say let’s check,” the director general said. “Maybe we will have the after-action review to see if there was something hidden or not … we will have scientists who will understand, investigate and tell us the truth.

“Now as a global community, please let's focus on the actions we can take today.”


It is hard to see what is factually false about what I wrote in my post. I speculated on a possible reason why China continued to demand of the rest of the world to not restrict travel when it was clearly doing the opposite itself. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus praise of Xi was clearly over the top, on a par with Trump's praise of Trump, and raised eyebrows among many observers, even those within WHO itself.

I don't know why this doesn't raise a question in your mind too.
Click to expand...

I’m sitting on the side eating popcorn...can’t wait to see how your post gets twisted and contorted to push this back on your intelligence. The playbook is boringly predictable. Good luck
 
rederob said:
The logic of a nation initiating a killer virus within in own borders so it could later spread it globally is mind numbingly stupid. To think China is that stupid is even more stupid!
This is factually false.
Click to expand...

Rederob, it is actually you who are stupid, misguided, without understanding or comprehension of the world and the people/countries and govnuts, current, past and future.

Your misguided thoughts are beyond comprehension.

China is not stupid, I agree, they are rather, or that be it their leaders are incredibly smart and calculated.

For you think that they are not capable of doing this, I have not answer to try and sway your thoughts.

Yes, they are capable, yes they hide things, yes they commit horrendous crimes against their own people. That is not saying Chinese people do it, but rather their leaders.

To dismiss that the govnuts were not willing to play the most impressive trade card in possibly the history of man, to release a virus upon the world and all it would cost them is 10k in their own people is just stupid and naive.

So i get back to your comment "To think China is that stupid is even more stupid!" it is you that are being stupid, they were not being stupid, they were being highly calculated/intelligent and acting out a game plan. Conquer by trade/$$$, not by force.

Donald is playing into their hands so well, I cannot believe it.

China will be the next super power by the end of the year and the USA, with the exception that the retaliate with force, is gone.

PS.
I hate bullies, large, small, black or white.
 
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