Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[rederob]

Well you sort of need lawyers to bring actions such as these. I strongly doubt anything will come of it anytime soon, but I find it interesting that the Nuremberg 2.0 idea is gaining traction.

Along with Trump's 2020 election win, fake moon landing and flat earth.
What about the President of Antarctica having to prevent flying pigs from breaking her castle windows? Well, I know that's not true because the President is a man. Still, I reckon if I can get QAnon onto this one, then we have lift off.

 

[wayneL]

Submitted without comment:

 

[DB008]

Omicron seems to be mild. They can punch vaccinating my 5yo kids up their ar$e till I see compelling data.

And Covid-19 is age based too. Generally speaking, the older you get, worse the effects. Your better off catching covid-19 NOW, IMO.

I've had both jabs, please give me Omricon.

 

[wayneL]

And Covid-19 is age based too. Generally speaking, the older you get, worse the effects. Your better off catching covid-19 NOW, IMO.

I've had both jabs, please give me Omricon.

I don't want to get the damn thing at all. But if it turns out to be inevitable, I'll the the omicron please

 

[bellenuit]

Your better off catching covid-19 NOW, IMO.

Informed opinion as expressed by experts is that you are better of getting COVID-19 if you have been vaccinated and are a breakthrough case. Your are less likely to be seriously injured and significantly less likely to die. Your immunity is also stronger than if you have natural immunity only.

Please educated yourselves and don't play Russian roulette with your health or your lives.

 

[wayneL]

Informed opinion as expressed by experts is that you are better of getting COVID-19 if you have been vaccinated and are a breakthrough case. Your are less likely to be seriously injured and significantly less likely to die. Your immunity is also stronger than if you have natural immunity only.

Please educated yourselves and don't play Russian roulette with your health or your lives.

Russian roulette.... A bullet In one of about then thousand chambers... Unless unlucky to a have a congenital comorbidity... or are farking dumb enough to live on nicotine and Maccas?

 

[bellenuit]

Russian roulette.... A bullet In one of about then thousand chambers... Unless unlucky to a have a congenital comorbidity... or are farking dumb enough to live on nicotine and Maccas?

After all this time and after all the statistics put out there, do you not even know that the gun you are given that could cause you to die or have serious injury from the vaccine has more chambers by several orders of magnitude than the gun you are given that could cause you to die or have serious injury from COVID-19.

It seems basic probability is beyond some of you guys.

 

[wayneL]

After all this time and after all the statistics put out there, do you not even know that the gun you are given that could cause you to die or have serious injury from the vaccine has more chambers by several orders of magnitude than the gun you are given that could cause you to die or have serious injury from COVID-19.

It seems basic probability is beyond some of you guys.

You see, that is a subjective judgement... and one you feel you must augment via pejorative argumentation.

I am quite happy to take that small risk, considering my good health.

If I'm wrong, obviously I will have to wear that.

On the other hand, there is the risk from the vaccine. I judge that as a greater risk.

I know several people who have had the virus now, thought of which have recovered without any problems.

I now onow several people who have had very severe reactions from the jab... two of which have been in ICU.

Yes, anecdotal, and a small sample size. But it also mirrors all of my close associates across 3 continents.

Therefore, I see that the Russian roulette game is far more loaded against me by taking the vaccine rather than taking my risks as a pureblood.

 

[bellenuit]

You see, that is a subjective judgement... and one you feel you must augment via pejorative argumentation.

I am quite happy to take that small risk, considering my good health.

If I'm wrong, obviously I will have to wear that.

On the other hand, there is the risk from the vaccine. I judge that as a greater risk.

I know several people who have had the virus now, thought of which have recovered without any problems.

I now onow several people who have had very severe reactions from the jab... two of which have been in ICU.

Yes, anecdotal, and a small sample size. But it also mirrors all of my close associates across 3 continents.

Therefore, I see that the Russian roulette game is far more loaded against me by taking the vaccine rather than taking my risks as a pureblood.

When the sample size is in the billions, it is no longer subjective.

And has been said before, no one gives a rats **** whether you want to take on that risk yourself, it is when there is a demand to be a full part of society while taking no protections that is the issue. That is a risk that the rest of us are not willing to allow you to take and why most governments will prevent you from taking. We care about others. You are still holding the delusion that the vaccines do not prevent infection and do not prevent transmission when the evidence is to the contrary.

 

[wayneL]

When the sample size is in the billions, it is no longer subjective.

And has been said before, no one gives a rats **** whether you want to take on that risk yourself, it is when there is a demand to be a full part of society while taking no protections that is the issue. That is a risk that the rest of us are not willing to allow you to take and why most governments will prevent you from taking. We care about others. You are still holding the delusion that the vaccines do not prevent infection and do not prevent transmission when the evidence is to the contrary.

The thing is Bella (and as such I assume you are female), the data, in toto, does not support your thesis. (Unless you are cherry picking)

Moreover, I'm not sure why you care.

TBH, I don't care a jot. You life, your choice. My life, my choice.

I support you you if you want the needle. I also support you if you don't want the needle. The outcome is not so different in actual fact (excepting that I believe the risk reward adds up if you have comorbidities)

Go with God, bro. My only concern is medical apartheid.

 

[sptrawler]

When the sample size is in the billions, it is no longer subjective.

And has been said before, no one gives a rats **** whether you want to take on that risk yourself, it is when there is a demand to be a full part of society while taking no protections that is the issue. That is a risk that the rest of us are not willing to allow you to take and why most governments will prevent you from taking. We care about others. You are still holding the delusion that the vaccines do not prevent infection and do not prevent transmission when the evidence is to the contrary.

I must admit reading that, comes over as very creepy and cult like.
A bit 1950's Alfred Hitchcock, when the loonie professor is enticing the victim into the government test laboratory. ?

"No one gives a rats **** whether you want to take on that risk yourself, it is when there is a demand to be a full part of society while taking no protections that is the issue."

" That is a risk that the rest of us are not willing to allow you to take and why most governments will prevent you from taking. We care about others. You are still holding the delusion that the vaccines do not prevent infection and do not prevent transmission when the evidence is to the contrary".

 

[bellenuit]

The thing is Bella (and as such I assume you are female), the data, in toto, does not support your thesis.

Yes it does, unless you are using some weird antivax sites as your source or data from some unrepresentative samples. Almost every government body in the world has come to the same conclusion from the data they have collected. The vaccines work. You are more likely to be hospitalised or die if you are not vaccinated and catch covid.

Moreover, I'm not sure why you care. TBH, I don't care a jot. You life, your choice. My life, my choice.

Wow. You are not sure why I care. I actually explained it to you a dozen times and you still don't get it. I even explained it in the post that you are responding to. Unvaccinated people are more likely to be infected with Covid. Unvaccinated people are more likely to transmit covid if infected. It is not just your life, it is other people's lives. Those that can't get vaccinated for certain medical reasons. Those that are too young to be vaccinated. Those that are vaccinated but have compromised immune systems. They are vulnerable and need others to keep them protected. Then there are those who cannot get medical care for other issues because hospitals are full of unvaccinated Covid patients. You know - it was a huge issue from day 1 - we must flatten the curve.

But you have said everything that is to know about you. You don't care a jot.

 

[bellenuit]

I must admit reading that, comes over as very creepy and cult like.
A bit 1950's Alfred Hitchcock, when the loonie professor is enticing the victim into the government test laboratory. ?

"No one gives a rats **** whether you want to take on that risk yourself, it is when there is a demand to be a full part of society while taking no protections that is the issue."

" That is a risk that the rest of us are not willing to allow you to take and why most governments will prevent you from taking. We care about others. You are still holding the delusion that the vaccines do not prevent infection and do not prevent transmission when the evidence is to the contrary".

It's not that this is something new. Society has imposed limits on others for the good of the majority for lots of things. Drink driving, smoking in cars with kids, having infectious diseases - oh yeah - there have been restrictions and demands made on those having infectious diseases for quiet a long time now. Have we all forgotten. It wasn't creepy and cult like before. It isn't any more creepy and cult like now just because social media has given voice to a lot of ignorant people who don't care a jot about others.

 

[wayneL]

You don't care a jot.

LMAO. This is he overarching message you keep tripping over yourself to arrive at..

Think about that, Bello/Bella ( both unlikely descriptors and especially for your mental state).

What position would you have taken in society if you lived in... Let's say.... 1938 in Germany?

 

[moXJO]

It's not that this is something new. Society has imposed limits on others for the good of the majority for lots of things. Drink driving, smoking in cars with kids, having infectious diseases - oh yeah - there have been restrictions and demands made on those having infectious diseases for quiet a long time now. Have we all forgotten. It wasn't creepy and cult like before. It isn't any more creepy and cult like now just because social media has given voice to a lot of ignorant people who don't care a jot about others.

It's 2.6% chance of picking it up if vaccinated. Thats according to an Israel study of hospital workers on the front line.
So not exactly a barking point if that's the round about.

I think (and don't quote me) that you are 9 times more likely to catch it and 11 times more likely to die if unvaccinated.

 

[rederob]

It's 2.6% chance of picking it up if vaccinated. Thats according to an Israel study of hospital workers on the front line.
So not exactly a barking point if that's the round about.

The problem that @wayneL has is that he just doesn't seem to believe global data over his anecdotal experience which is just a replication of the allegory of the cave.
The chance of getting covid unvaccinated is at least an order of magnitude higher, but the difference is that all the frontline hospital workers were many times exposed to covid, whereas this is not the case in the community.

I think (and don't quote me) that you are 9 times more likely to catch it and 11 times more likely to die if unvaccinated.

Yes, rates vary country to country and across age groups. However apart from quantifiable deaths the biggest problem of covid from the outset has been hospitalisations. Data shows that those vaccinated are less likely to get infected, and of this group fewer are likely to need hospitalisation, and of this cohort their symptoms are milder and fewer again end up in ICU. So at each step of the possible worst path of a covid sufferer the journey is less dangerous.

Of the few things that authorities seem clumsy about is the role of a previous infection acting as equivalent to vaccination. Available data suggests it's not necessary to be further vaccinated so the vaccine passport is flawed as it should be based on measurable antibody response irrespective of pathway. The Indian experience seems to validate this idea.

 

[IFocus]

It's 2.6% chance of picking it up if vaccinated. Thats according to an Israel study of hospital workers on the front line.
So not exactly a barking point if that's the round about.

I think (and don't quote me) that you are 9 times more likely to catch it and 11 times more likely to die if unvaccinated.

If unvaccinated about 10% go to hospital of those that test positive the death rate is reasonable low but the unvaccinated clogging up the hospital systems delaying other life saving treatments and putting front line medical care workers (super heroes) lives at risk seems to be the bit that doesn't concern some.

 

[DB008]

Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce tests positive for COVID-19 ​

He said he had felt tired and pain in his legs, but that the illness was so mild he was uncertain whether he was even sick.​

"I don't feel that bad, that's the crazy thing," Mr Joyce told Sky.​

Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce tests positive for COVID-19 in US

Deputy Prime Minister and Nationals Leader Barnaby Joyce has tested positive for COVID-19 after arriving in the United States.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

If unvaccinated about 10% go to hospital of those that test positive the death rate is reasonable low but the unvaccinated clogging up the hospital systems delaying other life saving treatments and putting front line medical care workers (super heroes) lives at risk seems to be the bit that doesn't concern some.

On the subject of clogged up hospitals, I would love to know what is clogging up the W.A ones, as we don't have a covid issue, but still have clogged hospitals.

 

[Belli]

On the subject of clogged up hospitals, I would love to know what is clogging up the W.A ones, as we don't have a covid issue, but still have clogged hospitals.

Start here. It holds a clue across all jurisdictions. Essentially it's about money for infrastructure and employing health staff. You could build a 500 bed acute care teaching hospital (it costs about $1m per bed by the way) but if I haven't got the staff and the funds to pay them it'll sit empty.

Spending on hospitals

Spending on hospitals page on the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare website

www.aihw.gov.au