Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[wayneL]

Wakey wakey

 

[rederob]

One of the issues with PCR tests is the number of cycles of the PCR test that are required to get a result. According to a paper from National Library of medicine, running more than 24 cycles is prone to produce errors.

Another misunderstanding of what is at issue.
Your linked paper had nothing to do with the accuracy of PCR tests.
The Ct or cycle threshold its the point at which the presence of CoV-SARS-2 is confirmed. More and more cycles are run until a fluorescence is strong enough to be detected, as explained here. The higher the cycle count the smaller the viral load, and therefore the lower the probability of infectiousness.

Never let science, public health or ethics get between a large listed co and a buck.
mick

ASF never lets a poor understanding of data and medical science stop people from posting, so beware of people who have a checquered record.

 

[IFocus]

This sort of resonated with me

 

[sptrawler]

There may be a pot of gold at the end of the AZ rainbow. ?

VaxLotto: Aussies could win $1m for getting vaccinated

Experts say 80 per cent of Australian's need to be vaccinated for the country to return to normal. Read how they plan to ensure that happens.

au.news.yahoo.com

from the article:
As Covid-19 case numbers continue to surge in NSW, the push to get Australians vaccinated is ramping up. However, not everyone wants the jab. To combat this, the Grattan Institute proposed a plan for a vaccination lottery — offering 10 jackpots of $1 million every week over an eight week period for vaccinated Australians only.

 

[bellenuit]

This is worrying for everyone.

C.D.C. Internal Report Calls Delta Variant as Contagious as Chickenpox (Published 2021)

Infections in vaccinated Americans are rare, compared with those in unvaccinated people, the document said. But when they occur, vaccinated people may spread the virus just as easily.

www.nytimes.com

C.D.C. Internal Report Calls Delta Variant as Contagious as Chickenpox​

The Delta variant is much more contagious, more likely to break through protections afforded by the vaccines and may cause more severe disease than all other known versions of the virus, according to an internal presentation circulated within the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky, the director of the agency, acknowledged on Tuesday that vaccinated people with so-called breakthrough infections of the Delta variant carry just as much virus in the nose and throat as unvaccinated people, and may spread it just as readily, if less often.

But the internal document lays out a broader and even grimmer view of the variant.

The Delta variant is more transmissible than the viruses that cause MERS, SARS, Ebola, the common cold, the seasonal flu and smallpox, and it is as contagious as chickenpox, according to the document, a copy of which was obtained by The New York Times.

The immediate next step for the agency is to “acknowledge the war has changed,” the document said. Its contents were first reportedby The Washington Post on Thursday evening.

The document’s tone reflects alarm among C.D.C. scientists about Delta’s spread across the country, said a federal official who has seen the research described in the document. The agency is expected to publish additional data on the variant on Friday.

 

[pozindustrial]

This is worrying for everyone.

C.D.C. Internal Report Calls Delta Variant as Contagious as Chickenpox (Published 2021)

Infections in vaccinated Americans are rare, compared with those in unvaccinated people, the document said. But when they occur, vaccinated people may spread the virus just as easily.

www.nytimes.com

C.D.C. Internal Report Calls Delta Variant as Contagious as Chickenpox​

The Delta variant is much more contagious, more likely to break through protections afforded by the vaccines and may cause more severe disease than all other known versions of the virus, according to an internal presentation circulated within the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky, the director of the agency, acknowledged on Tuesday that vaccinated people with so-called breakthrough infections of the Delta variant carry just as much virus in the nose and throat as unvaccinated people, and may spread it just as readily, if less often.

But the internal document lays out a broader and even grimmer view of the variant.

The Delta variant is more transmissible than the viruses that cause MERS, SARS, Ebola, the common cold, the seasonal flu and smallpox, and it is as contagious as chickenpox, according to the document, a copy of which was obtained by The New York Times.

The immediate next step for the agency is to “acknowledge the war has changed,” the document said. Its contents were first reportedby The Washington Post on Thursday evening.

The document’s tone reflects alarm among C.D.C. scientists about Delta’s spread across the country, said a federal official who has seen the research described in the document. The agency is expected to publish additional data on the variant on Friday.

So the Delta variant is more contagious and vaccinated people carry as much in the nose as unvaccinated people. All the rest of the fears are "maybes". I love the way the media, government and medical spokespeople create so much fear with 'maybes'. You could not make this stuff up.

 

[bellenuit]

So the Delta variant is more contagious and vaccinated people carry as much in the nose as unvaccinated people. All the rest of the fears are "maybes". I love the way the media, government and medical spokespeople create so much fear with 'maybes'. You could not make this stuff up.

Yes, IF they get infected and that is the big difference.

 

[wayneL]

It's no big deal unless you have a vulnerability.... ie poor health already

And it seems that, unverified, vaccinated may have as much if not more chance of being infected

 

[sptrawler]

And finally the Government has woken up to the fact, that you can't put a timeline on people who have choices, so now the media has to find another angle. ?

PM says 80 per cent of Australians must be vaccinated before lockdowns end

The Prime Minister says 70 per cent of eligible Australians will need to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 for the country to begin reopening and returning to normal, and 80 per cent to end lockdowns.

www.abc.net.au

PM says timeline for reaching vaccination goal is 'up to us as Australians' — as it happened

Prime Minister Scott Morrison says state and territory governments have agreed "in principle" to a vaccination target plan at today's National Cabinet meeting.

www.abc.net.au

 

[pozindustrial]

As far as I am concerned the chickens are coming home to roost with the whole Covid narrative and misinformation which aligns with today’s quick fix mentality and bullying tactics of the strongly opinionated.
It is laughable that those who pride themselves on following the best advice from recognised experts never realise that simply buying some of those experts can scam them so easily.
But that practice has been taken to a whole new level with this pandemic!
Vaccines have never been the answer to good health and longevity and have always been associated with terrible side effects that have been downplayed. Covid vaccines have the honour of being responsible for more deaths than all the vaccines in history before their introduction yet people believe the ‘marketing’ that they are safe, effective and the road out of lockdowns.
60% of hospital patients with Covid in UK & Israel have been vaccinated, the vast majority with both jabs. Delta variant has been blamed which means that the Covid vaccine is ineffective and now Pfizer is ‘marketing’ a booster. Vaccines are also being targeted at children and there is talk of a seasonal jab every year.
Follow the money! This is about money, not health! Covid is real, but vaccines being the rescue is a myth. They may help, but they are not the answer.
It is simply entrapment of humans for incredible riches.
The misinformation that no other treatment is possible is nothing short of criminal and that people who regard themselves as properly informed believe it is a joke.
This is how it happens today with propaganda and censorship. Wake up.

Almost 100% COVID-19 Survival Rate, Suppressed by Media

The Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Working Group, which was established by five critical care physicians, developed the early at-home protocol known as MATH+.

articles.mercola.com

 

[sptrawler]

As far as I am concerned the chickens are coming home to roost with the whole Covid narrative and misinformation which aligns with today’s quick fix mentality and bullying tactics of the strongly opinionated.
It is laughable that those who pride themselves on following the best advice from recognised experts never realise that simply buying some of those experts can scam them so easily.
But that practice has been taken to a whole new level with this pandemic!
Vaccines have never been the answer to good health and longevity and have always been associated with terrible side effects that have been downplayed. Covid vaccines have the honour of being responsible for more deaths than all the vaccines in history before their introduction yet people believe the ‘marketing’ that they are safe, effective and the road out of lockdowns.
60% of hospital patients with Covid in UK & Israel have been vaccinated, the vast majority with both jabs. Delta variant has been blamed which means that the Covid vaccine is ineffective and now Pfizer is ‘marketing’ a booster. Vaccines are also being targeted at children and there is talk of a seasonal jab every year.
Follow the money! This is about money, not health! Covid is real, but vaccines being the rescue is a myth. They may help, but they are not the answer.
It is simply entrapment of humans for incredible riches.
The misinformation that no other treatment is possible is nothing short of criminal and that people who regard themselves as properly informed believe it is a joke.
This is how it happens today with propaganda and censorship. Wake up.

Almost 100% COVID-19 Survival Rate, Suppressed by Media

The Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Working Group, which was established by five critical care physicians, developed the early at-home protocol known as MATH+.

articles.mercola.com

In a lot of ways, it is what it is, if the whole thing is a hoax it really doesn't matter, what matters is what you personally think is the right choice for you.
That boils down to a lot of things, age, health, aspirations, travel plans, travel hopes, work requirements, personal beliefs, religious beliefs etc, there isn't one size fits all in this.

 

[pozindustrial]

In a lot of ways, it is what it is, if the whole thing is a hoax it really doesn't matter, what matters is what you personally think is the right choice for you.
That boils down to a lot of things, age, health, aspirations, travel plans, travel hopes, work requirements, personal beliefs, religious beliefs etc, there isn't one size fits all in this.

Totally agree (which may surprise some) I just get annoyed with those that think only one answer exists. ie vaccines

 

[sptrawler]

Totally agree (which may surprise some) I just get annoyed with those that think only one answer exists. ie vaccines

I have followed your line of reasoning and I found nothing wrong with it, there isn't a definitive right or wrong, there is only personal choice.
I've been reluctant and my other half is well versed in medicine, but we have taken the choice to go with the flow as age isn't on our side and we still have a lot of the World we want to see.
My best mate doesn't want to travel, same age as me, he is waiting as long as possible, being in W.A, that could well be a long time.
That is the great thing about Australia, you do have choices, even though some will still try and force their opinion.
The thing that is interesting, is Australians acceptance to take what the media say as gospel, when the media is very quick to say we are only repeating experts advice yet they trawl to find advice that supports sensational headlines IMO.

 

[sptrawler]

By the way, forgot to mention, my best mate is an essential worker and could have had the vaccine ages ago, just chose not to.
He has worked non stop since the first outbreak over a year ago, he works on waste management, 'garbo' but not being funny, he does it from choice. I did my apprenticeship with him, nicest guy you would ever meet. ?

 

[rederob]

As far as I am concerned the chickens are coming home to roost with the whole Covid narrative and misinformation which aligns with today’s quick fix mentality and bullying tactics of the strongly opinionated.

Evidence?

It is laughable that those who pride themselves on following the best advice from recognised experts never realise that simply buying some of those experts can scam them so easily.

Evidence?

But that practice has been taken to a whole new level with this pandemic!

For example?

Vaccines have never been the answer to good health and longevity and have always been associated with terrible side effects that have been downplayed.

False.
The purpose of vaccines is to stave off disease and has nothing to do with good health per se.
And while some vaccines have not gone to plan, the overall benefits are beyond dispute in medical science.

Covid vaccines have the honour of being responsible for more deaths than all the vaccines in history before their introduction yet people believe the ‘marketing’ that they are safe, effective and the road out of lockdowns.

Baseless claim.

60% of hospital patients with Covid in UK & Israel have been vaccinated, the vast majority with both jabs. Delta variant has been blamed which means that the Covid vaccine is ineffective and now Pfizer is ‘marketing’ a booster. Vaccines are also being targeted at children and there is talk of a seasonal jab every year.

So what?

Follow the money! This is about money, not health! Covid is real, but vaccines being the rescue is a myth.

Zero evidence, again!

It is simply entrapment of humans for incredible riches.

Evidence?

The misinformation that no other treatment is possible is nothing short of criminal and that people who regard themselves as properly informed believe it is a joke.

A totally false claim. Treatment regimes are available to anyone who can google!

This is how it happens today with propaganda and censorship. Wake up.

I agree. You need to wake up from your baseless propaganda and decision to block my posts so you can bathe in ignorance.

 

[sptrawler]

Evidence?

Evidence?

For example?

False.
The purpose of vaccines is to stave off disease and has nothing to do with good health per se.
And while some vaccines have not gone to plan, the overall benefits are beyond dispute in medical science.

Baseless claim.

So what?

Zero evidence, again!

Evidence?

A totally false claim. Treatment regimes are available to anyone who can google!

I agree. You need to wake up from your baseless propaganda and decision to block my posts so you can bathe in ignorance.

It's not a competition, it's a forum.

 

[rederob]

It's not a competition, it's a forum.

In the shares threads we don't let baseless or false claims about stock performance or companies go unchallenged, so why should this one be different?

 

[sptrawler]

In the shares threads we don't let baseless or false claims about stock performance or companies go unchallenged, so why should this one be different?

Because it is a chat forum, where it isn't imperative that the answer be definitive or even accurate, a bit like the 6 o'clock news, Bolt or the project, you know where people just say what they think and others either laugh at it, argue about it or ignore it.

 

[sptrawler]

Businesses to get Vaccine for employees and their families, it will be interesting to see how this goes down.

Businesses to take unused AstraZeneca doses to boost rollout

Companies will use their own health teams to distribute AstraZeneca vaccines not being taken by state governments, doctors and pharmacies.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Australia’s biggest companies will set up schemes to vaccinate employees and their families with unallocated vaccines in a bid to boost the national rollout and help end sweeping lockdowns.

Supplies of the AstraZeneca vaccine are the most readily available, with roughly 3 million doses of that vaccine sitting in clinics or warehouses across the country as CSL in Melbourne continues to produce about 1 million doses per week.

Data revealed to The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age shows NSW has ordered just 17 per cent of the AstraZeneca doses available to the state, the lowest rate of any state or territory. Of the 964,920 doses available to NSW to week 25, the state had ordered 164,020 doses. Victoria has ordered 77 per cent, or 664,480 doses, of the AstraZeneca allotted to the state.

 

[sptrawler]

It is good to see the medical profession starting to get vocal, about the political football that has been going on.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07...onal-approach-to-covid-19-lockdowns/100338080
From the article:
Health experts say Australia's states should have a uniform response to dealing with COVID-19 outbreaks and are accusing some jurisdictions — including New South Wales — of prioritising politics over health.

Since the pandemic began, state and territory leaders have called lockdowns at different stages of outbreaks and with varying rules, restrictions and definitions of essential work.

Epidemiologist and Professor of International Health at the Burnet Institute, Michael Toole, said the differing pandemic responses of various states was confusing and problematic.

"I doubt if any chief health officer in Australia really has a different view to how to respond," he said.

"But they are operating in very different political contexts