Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[basilio]

I can't see any way Victoria will come out of lockdown on Thursday. This strain is very infectious and infected people people appear to have been almost everywhere. The probability that there won't be continuing cases from these visits seems remote.

I think the Commonwealth and all the State Governments need to go into absolute emergency gear and speed up vaccination by a factor probably 10. We just can't afford to have States locked down because of the threat of uncontained infections. And we certainly can't have an economy spreading COVID like wildfire and effectively destroying our structures aka India, Malaysia, Peru etc etc. (Just something to consider for our investment portfolios..)

If this isn't recognised as a full scale emergency what the xuck is ???

Latest story is really concerning. Read it carefully. It all happened before the lockdown. And the second story is equally concerning. We must all get vaccinated ASAP.

Melbourne COVID-19 case went on camping trip in NSW, several areas on alert

NSW Health issues a COVID-19 alert after discovering a COVID-19 case from Melbourne visited several areas of the state while potentially infectious.

www.abc.net.au

Fresh quarantine hotel breach as virus leaks between rooms

A returned traveller staying at a quarantine hotel in Perth has acquired Covid-19 from a guest in a neighbouring room.

au.news.yahoo.com

 

[sptrawler]

I can't see any way Victoria will come out of lockdown on Thursday. This strain is very infectious and infected people people appear to have been almost everywhere. The probability that there won't be continuing cases from these visits seems remote.

I think the Commonwealth and all the State Governments need to go into absolute emergency gear and speed up vaccination by a factor probably 10.

Unfortunately it isn't China and people here have a choice, I suppose Scomo could call a State of emergency and send military patrols out to vaccinate people.
The media would love that, socialism knows no bounds, eh Bas. ? ? ?

 

[basilio]

Unfortunately it isn't China and people here have a choice, I suppose Scomo could call a State of emergency and send military patrols out to vaccinate people.
The media would love that, socialism knows no bounds, eh Bas. ? ? ?

What a great little trolling wind up SP..

Your quite right in suggesting any and every anti vaxxer can proudly refuse a jab. Thats their "right" (maybe..) and good luck to them I wish them the very best of karma.

But this governments responsibility is to move heaven and earth to make sure there is sufficient vaccines for everyone who wants one, to ensure those in vulnerable situations get a jab ASAP and show some xucking intelligent leadership in encouraging the broader community to understand the dangers of a continuing, more virulent COVID strain spreading throughout the community.

Frankly from a political survival POV I think this is the only option they have. I just don't believe the sensible centre of Australia thinks we can meander from now until doomsday waiting for vaccines. In fact I think the next opinion poll which asks this question going to be teh mother of wake up calls

And they could start by making it clear that every member of the government is strongly in support of a quick mass vaccination.

 

[basilio]

The Guardian dissects the Governments "It's not a race" theme. Interestingly the comment was made by the Chief Medical Officer in January when the Government was assessing the quality of the various vaccines.

Since then he said times have changed. The vaccines are proven. We are now in go mode. But Scumo still hides behind a 6 month old comment that was out of date within 6 weeks of it's use.

The Morrison government’s ‘vaccine rollout is not a race’ nonsense tells us a lot about what’s gone wrong | Katharine Murphy

The Covid vaccination program has lacked urgency at every stage, with the government a few beats behind and its story not quite right

www.theguardian.com

 

[sptrawler]

The Guardian dissects the Governments "It's not a race" theme. Interestingly the comment was made by the Chief Medical Officer in January when the Government was assessing the quality of the various vaccines.

Since then he said times have changed. The vaccines are proven. We are now in go mode. But Scumo still hides behind a 6 month old comment that was out of date within 6 weeks of it's use.

The Morrison government’s ‘vaccine rollout is not a race’ nonsense tells us a lot about what’s gone wrong | Katharine Murphy

The Covid vaccination program has lacked urgency at every stage, with the government a few beats behind and its story not quite right

www.theguardian.com

Just imagine if you had to putting up with the crap this guy has to take, let alone he has a family and two you girls at home, I just can't believe how some people say they are being trolled. ? ? ? ? ?
He is meant to be a covid expert, a vaccine and vaccine response expert, a jobseeker expert, a jobkeeper expert, a sexual assualt expert, a renewable generation expert, an expert on whatever the media commentator has studied up on to trip him up. ?
Yet we still criticise, like I say, if you are a sensible person judge on the outcomes, not on the media hype that just sells papers.

 

[basilio]

SP a PM isn't supposed to be an expert on everything. In fact a boss who thinks they know everything is probably not the best person to have in the position.

A good PM must have an understanding of what is important and then ensure he has some quality Cabinet members and Heads of Department who can make sure what is supposed to be done is done.

I tore into the lack of urgency the Government has demonstrated over the provision of sufficient vaccines to make all citizens safe. The reality is that there hasn't been sufficient vaccine produced nor promoted. Now when the community is suddenly galvanised into action we can see how badly prepared the Feds are.

And what about the attitude of the Minister for Aged care in overseeing his responsibilities ?

‘Critical’ lack of Covid vaccine supply in Melbourne forcing GPs to turn people away

Undersupply so severe amid outbreak clinic forced to turn away residents of two care facilities

www.theguardian.com

In the dark yet 'comfortable': Minister's baffling oversight puts his competence in question

Aged Care Services Minister Richard Colbeck's competence has again been under serious question this week as he's struggled to explain what appears to be a baffling oversight in the vaccine roll-out: aged care staff, writes David Speers.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

SP a PM isn't supposed to be an expert on everything. In fact a boss who thinks they know everything is probably not the best person to have in the position.

A good PM must have an understanding of what is important and then ensure he has some quality Cabinet members and Heads of Department who can make sure what is supposed to be done is done.

I tore into the lack of urgency the Government has demonstrated over the provision of sufficient vaccines to make all citizens safe. The reality is that there hasn't been sufficient vaccine produced nor promoted. Now when the community is suddenly galvanised into action we can see how badly prepared the Feds are.

And what about the attitude of the Minister for Aged care in overseeing his responsibilities ?

‘Critical’ lack of Covid vaccine supply in Melbourne forcing GPs to turn people away

Undersupply so severe amid outbreak clinic forced to turn away residents of two care facilities

www.theguardian.com

In the dark yet 'comfortable': Minister's baffling oversight puts his competence in question

Aged Care Services Minister Richard Colbeck's competence has again been under serious question this week as he's struggled to explain what appears to be a baffling oversight in the vaccine roll-out: aged care staff, writes David Speers.

www.abc.net.au

There is no excuse for a minister not being on top of his or her portfolio, if they aren't they should be thrown out of the job. That goes for Federal and State IMO.

 

[sptrawler]

One really good thing to come out of the virus IMO, is the realisation that Federal and State responsibilities have to be clear, both sides blame the other when things turn pear shaped.

This usually is because one side or the other, hasn't been meeting their responsibilities, with funding for the specific service.

At the end of the day the taxpayer pays for all the services, be they State or Federal services, but the States and the Federal Governments get their taxes from different sources i.e income tax, GST, land tax, payroll tax, electricity receipts, water charges, sewage charges, stamp duty etc.

So it is better for both sides Federal and State, to blame the other for any failings and try to force funding, thereby not having to increase taxes on their watch.
So this virus may actually bring the responsibility issue to a head, when it has been ducked and weaved around for a long, long time.

I think it well beyond time, that the media focus on the fact that it is the taxpayer that pays for it, rather than focusing on the politics of whether it is Federal or State depending on how they want to bias their reporting.

At the end of the day, It is the same taxpayer, who pays both taxes. Whether State taxes go up, or Federal taxes go up, it is the taxpayer who funds it.
Industry knows where i'm coming from.lol

Wesfarmers’ message to governments: Don’t make us pay for the COVID stimulus

The stimulus-fuelled shopping bonanza has left companies like Bunnings, Kmart and Officeworks explaining to shareholders that the party is over now as more normal pre-COVID trading patterns return.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
In other words, ignore the COVID bumps, look at the two-year trajectory between 2019 and 2021 and focus on the positive trend line.

What COVID giveth COVID can taketh away. And what Scott clearly doesn’t want to see is businesses being hit with the costs of cleaning up after governments are left with the huge stimulus debt burden.
Scott took a thinly veiled swipe at Victoria’s decision to increase payroll tax on large companies - a decision which he believes hinders employment growth. He certainly won’t be wanting that decision to give other state governments ideas about employing taxes on business to repair their budgets.
“I appreciate the state and federal governments have significant funding challenges here, especially when revenue sources are declining, but the way through is not to increase the taxes on jobs such as payroll tax levies...that is very damaging and it’s working against efforts to try to get people back into work,” he argues.

 

[SirRumpole]

Employment of useless consultants wasting money still rife in government departments.

A consultancy firm paid $660,000 provided no 'specific advice' on Australia's COVID-19 vaccine strategy

The federal government has relied on private consultancy firms for advice on a range of complex issues, including the vaccine rollout, but there's growing scrutiny over the lack of transparency around the advice provided.

www.abc.net.au

 

[moXJO]

Employment of useless consultants wasting money still rife in government departments.

A consultancy firm paid $660,000 provided no 'specific advice' on Australia's COVID-19 vaccine strategy

The federal government has relied on private consultancy firms for advice on a range of complex issues, including the vaccine rollout, but there's growing scrutiny over the lack of transparency around the advice provided.

www.abc.net.au

This is a g up right?
Did anyone look at the dumpster fire that is the Vic government?

 

[SirRumpole]

This is a g up right?
Did anyone look at the dumpster fire that is the Vic government?

If you do the work then sometimes stuff ups happen. Last time it happened was in SA, why aren't you having a go at them ?

People who don't hold a hose don't get their hands dirty and can blame others.

Morrison is a weak ad-man, all talk no action.

You want a dumpster fire ?

In the dark yet 'comfortable': Minister's baffling oversight puts his competence in question

Aged Care Services Minister Richard Colbeck's competence has again been under serious question this week as he's struggled to explain what appears to be a baffling oversight in the vaccine roll-out: aged care staff, writes David Speers.

www.abc.net.au

 

[rederob]

One really good thing to come out of the virus IMO, is the realisation that Federal and State responsibilities have to be clear, both sides blame the other when things turn pear shaped.

This usually is because one side or the other, hasn't been meeting their responsibilities, with funding for the specific service.

At the end of the day the taxpayer pays for all the services, be they State or Federal services, but the States and the Federal Governments get their taxes from different sources i.e income tax, GST, land tax, payroll tax, electricity receipts, water charges, sewage charges, stamp duty etc.

So it is better for both sides Federal and State, to blame the other for any failings and try to force funding, thereby not having to increase taxes on their watch.
So this virus may actually bring the responsibility issue to a head, when it has been ducked and weaved around for a long, long time.

I think it well beyond time, that the media focus on the fact that it is the taxpayer that pays for it, rather than focusing on the politics of whether it is Federal or State depending on how they want to bias their reporting.

At the end of the day, It is the same taxpayer, who pays both taxes. Whether State taxes go up, or Federal taxes go up, it is the taxpayer who funds it.
Industry knows where i'm coming from.lol

Wesfarmers’ message to governments: Don’t make us pay for the COVID stimulus

The stimulus-fuelled shopping bonanza has left companies like Bunnings, Kmart and Officeworks explaining to shareholders that the party is over now as more normal pre-COVID trading patterns return.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
In other words, ignore the COVID bumps, look at the two-year trajectory between 2019 and 2021 and focus on the positive trend line.

What COVID giveth COVID can taketh away. And what Scott clearly doesn’t want to see is businesses being hit with the costs of cleaning up after governments are left with the huge stimulus debt burden.
Scott took a thinly veiled swipe at Victoria’s decision to increase payroll tax on large companies - a decision which he believes hinders employment growth. He certainly won’t be wanting that decision to give other state governments ideas about employing taxes on business to repair their budgets.
“I appreciate the state and federal governments have significant funding challenges here, especially when revenue sources are declining, but the way through is not to increase the taxes on jobs such as payroll tax levies...that is very damaging and it’s working against efforts to try to get people back into work,” he argues.

First, there is no ambiguity about quarantine responsibility. It's spelled out in our Constitution as a federal role.
Second, while we all pay taxes to fund what our respective governments do, it is not distributed equally. The GST component for example significantly underpays WA:

There is also no consistency to States tax rates for items such as property sales, payroll or vehicle registrations.
Third, as States are limited in the range of taxes they can collect, once Jobkeeper ended, any lockdowns would significantly affect the State/s implementing them. Given the largesse previously applied by Morrison to tackle covid woes, it should have come as a no brainer to immediately do something to support Victoria last week. Unfortunately no brainer has a liberal interpretation here.
Fourth, the States cannot just print money to get out of a bind!
Finally, going back to the first point, as quarantine is a federal responsibility and breaches should be paid for by the responsible party, this is not a blame game being played. It's one where we are calling out our government to live up to what it is supposed to be doing to keep us all safe and prosperous.

 

[moXJO]

If you do the work then sometimes stuff ups happen. Last time it happened was in SA, why aren't you having a go at them ?

People who don't hold a hose don't get their hands dirty and can blame others.

Morrison is a weak ad-man, all talk no action.

You want a dumpster fire ?

In the dark yet 'comfortable': Minister's baffling oversight puts his competence in question

Aged Care Services Minister Richard Colbeck's competence has again been under serious question this week as he's struggled to explain what appears to be a baffling oversight in the vaccine roll-out: aged care staff, writes David Speers.

www.abc.net.au

Their contact tracing is a joke.
There is no action until it's way too late.
They have no idea on containment beyond complete lockdowns.
Then we have a bunch of bootlicking leftist who think they are doing a wonderful job, but it's anything but.

NSW is doing a better job without the overbearing authoritarianism the Labor states seem to love dishing out. On top of that Vic is now dropping taxes on everything. I do want Victorians up and leaving Victoria and moving to NSW

It's the state that keeps on Fcking up. I also notice the Chardonnay leftist from Vic are the loudest of the bunch.

 

[rederob]

Their contact tracing is a joke.

A high level public servant I know doing contract tracing in NSW made a few points:

• a small number of people are straight out dishonest
• many of those who identify as contacts simply refuse to home quarantine
• convincing some people about the dangers is a lost cause
• 20 minute phone calls are not uncommon

It really makes no difference which State is involved as the above points are likely to be universal.

They have no idea on containment beyond complete lockdowns.

That's because lockdowns are the only practical measure of containment.

Then we have a bunch of bootlicking leftist who think they are doing a wonderful job, but it's anything but.

Maybe put the blame back on a federal government not taking responsibility for quarantining!

It's the state that keeps on Fcking up. I also notice the Chardonnay leftist from Vic are the loudest of the bunch.

Nothing like a having a rational view, eh?
Where's the fed's covid safe app in all this?
Where is a national QR code that tracks cross border travel?
Where are the million doses of vaccine that are supposed to be produced each week?
Where are our negative pressure quarantine facilities?

 

[sptrawler]

First, there is no ambiguity about quarantine responsibility. It's spelled out in our Constitution as a federal role.
Second, while we all pay taxes to fund what our respective governments do, it is not distributed equally. The GST component for example significantly underpays WA:

The GST significantly underpays W.A, which Barnett took issue with for years and finally it is Morrison who has done something about it.

There is also no consistency to States tax rates for items such as property sales, payroll or vehicle registrations.

And who's fault is that? the States wont even standardise licensing

Third, as States are limited in the range of taxes they can collect, once Jobkeeper ended, any lockdowns would significantly affect the State/s implementing them. Given the largesse previously applied by Morrison to tackle covid woes, it should have come as a no brainer to immediately do something to support Victoria last week. Unfortunately no brainer has a liberal interpretation here.

If the lockdown had been limited to 7 days, implementing anything other than at a local level would be all but impossible to control, then the finger pointing would have been about poor implementation. Once the lockdown was extended, processes were implemented, why no big song and dance when W.A had a snap lockdown a month or so ago?

Fourth, the States cannot just print money to get out of a bind!

Agrred

Finally, going back to the first point, as quarantine is a federal responsibility and breaches should be paid for by the responsible party, this is not a blame game being played. It's one where we are calling out our government to live up to what it is supposed to be doing to keep us all safe and prosperous.

The issue is as you are probably aware having worked for the Government, if the virus is eradicated, having stranded purpose built infrastructure and displaced staff becomes a major issue.
I notice the Government even though they have been slow to commit are now talking of doing so, the good thing IMO is they appear to be taking a sensible approach and suggesting building them near existing airports with international aircraft capability.

 

[sptrawler]

WOW interesting article in the SMH. The whole article is worth a read, but I have just taken out a few of the passages, as it is quite long and covers a few different issues. Trying to keep on thread

It’s China that’s fighting to contain COVID’s fallout now, not the West

Turns out the democratic West did not lose the pandemic after all. The year that China claimed ascendancy may prove to be its annus horribilis.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
American and European vaccines are the miracle cure sought by everybody. Japan’s vaccination drive has been strangely inept and nine prefectures covering 50 per cent of GDP are still under a state of emergency. A fourth wave has filled hospitals, and the Indian Delta variant has again thrown the Olympics into doubt. Japan’s economy remains stuck in recession.
Those who relied heavily on Chinese vaccines have grown wary of large claims and opaque science. Chile vaccinated fast and early with Sinovac, and Hungary with Sinopharm. Both were overwhelmed by fresh waves of hospitalisation and death. Nobody believes trial data any more.

China is belatedly vaccinating its own population as highly infectious variants keep popping up. Parts of Guangdong are again under draconian curbs.

George Gao, head of China’s Centre for Disease Control, says his country’s vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates” and may have to be mixed with Western mRNA technology to contain further waves of contagion. Which raises the question: will China have to rely on repressive surveillance measures long after the West has fully reopened?

“The perception of China as the great winner has turned around. The momentum is now on the side of the Western liberal democracies,” said Professor Ho-Fung Hung at Johns Hopkins University. “The US and the UK have the pandemic under control and their vaccines are very effective. It is China that is now struggling,” he said.

The red-hot US economy has already regained its pre-pandemic levels of GDP but has done so with 8 million fewer workers, evidence of rocketing productivity. Lockdowns seem to have condensed seven years of digital take-up into a single year. Who would have imagined that stopping people going to work would be such a Schumpeterian catalyst?

The OECD’s global outlook this week made an astonishing forecast. It suggested that the US economy would surpass even its pre-virus growth trajectory as soon as the third quarter.

The risk for China is that the investigation of the Wuhan lab theory by the US intelligence agencies validates what has until now been deemed a conspiracy theory.

If the Chinese state is found to have created this virus, covered up the leak, and then allowed airline passengers to seed it around the world, the consequences will be catastrophic. The year that China claimed ascendancy may prove to be its annus horribilis.

 

[moXJO]

A high level public servant I know doing contract tracing in NSW made a few points:

• a small number of people are straight out dishonest
• many of those who identify as contacts simply refuse to home quarantine
• convincing some people about the dangers is a lost cause
• 20 minute phone calls are not uncommon

It really makes no difference which State is involved as the above points are likely to be universal.

That's because lockdowns are the only practical measure of containment.

Maybe put the blame back on a federal government not taking responsibility for quarantining!

Nothing like a having a rational view, eh?
Where's the fed's covid safe app in all this?
Where is a national QR code that tracks cross border travel?
Where are the million doses of vaccine that are supposed to be produced each week?
Where are our negative pressure quarantine facilities?

The proof is in the pudding. NSW Sydney has the highest density and managed to lockdown just the north shore and still come up golden.
Vic couldn't run a greasy stick up a pigs ass with a drilling rig in tow.

I know plenty of high level public servants and all States fudge it

 

[Knobby22]

What about the two Victorians which have delta strain Indian virus! That is the worst one unrelated to the others and it may have been picked up in NSW!! it is unrelated to the leak from SA and children get quite sick with it and can transmit it.

I wonder if this is the strain in China causing them problems? Its is the UK and much of Asia now.
This is a disappointment to say the least. If its in NSW undetected then we are all in trouble.

 

[rederob]

WOW interesting article in the SMH. The whole article is worth a read, but I have just taken out a few of the passages, as it is quite long and covers a few different issues. Trying to keep on thread

It’s China that’s fighting to contain COVID’s fallout now, not the West

Turns out the democratic West did not lose the pandemic after all. The year that China claimed ascendancy may prove to be its annus horribilis.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Those who relied heavily on Chinese vaccines have grown wary of large claims and opaque science. Chile vaccinated fast and early with Sinovac, and Hungary with Sinopharm. Both were overwhelmed by fresh waves of hospitalisation and death. Nobody believes trial data any more.

Why choose poor journalism from an opinion piece over the facts?

 

[basilio]

What about the two Victorians which have delta strain Indian virus! That is the worst one unrelated to the others and it may have been picked up in NSW!! it is unrelated to the leak from SA and children get quite sick with it and can transmit it.

I wonder if this is the strain in China causing them problems? Its is the UK and much of Asia now.
This is a disappointment to say the least. If its in NSW undetected then we are all in trouble.

This is seriously concerning. Also the fact that the family have been travelling extensively.

Delta COVID strain that devastated India detected in Victorian community

Genomic sequencing in two cases in Melbourne has detected the Delta strain of the virus, which is considered a variant of concern by health authorities.

www.abc.net.au