Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[bellenuit]

The media in general still say you are protected from Covid if you are vaccinated. This is a lie.

If that is the case why are the number of new cases (those infected) dropping in line with the roll out of vaccinations in the UK and the US?

 

[pozindustrial]

Here is a Forbes article claiming that 4 out of 5 of the most vaccinated countries have had surges in infection, not reductions.

Covid Surges In 4 Of 5 Most Vaccinated Countries—Here’s Why The U.S. Should Worry

Countries with much higher vaccination rates than the U.S. are experiencing some of the worst coronavirus spikes.

www.forbes.com

 

[bellenuit]

Here is a Forbes article claiming that 4 out of 5 of the most vaccinated countries have had surges in infection, not reductions.

The article explains why that is the case. Reliance in many cases on the less effective Chinese vaccine and a premature relaxation of restrictions. Did you not understand that?

I again ask you: why are the number of new cases (those infected) dropping in line with the roll out of vaccinations in the UK and the US?

 

[bellenuit]

Immunity to the Coronavirus May Persist for Years, Scientists Find​

Immunity to the Coronavirus May Persist for Years, Scientists Find (Published 2021)

Important immune cells survive in the bone marrow of people who were infected with the virus or were inoculated against it, new research suggests.

www.nytimes.com

 

[pozindustrial]

I again ask you: why are the number of new cases (those infected) dropping in line with the roll out of vaccinations in the UK and the US?

Where is your proof?

 

[bellenuit]

COVID-19 infections are exceedingly rare after full vaccination: CDC​

COVID-19 infections are exceedingly rare after full vaccination: CDC

Only 0.01% of people tested positive for the coronavirus after getting fully vaccinated.

abcnews.go.com

 

[bellenuit]

Where is your proof?

From Worldometers

 

[pozindustrial]

Well, according to those charts we needn't bother doing anything else. Problem solved. What is all the fuss about?

 

[sptrawler]

Why 10's of thousands of young people marched across Australia today.

View attachment 124643

I must say I would put the Dalai Modi and the Dalai Morrison in to the same boat. Spin and onions.

It appears to me that it is by much luck and distance that we have avoided the full ravages of the pandemic. The Hotel Quarantine is a ticking time bomb which is trigger set to go off as we speak.

gg

Apparently the spin and onions, don't work in a mask.
I just hope eventually, the media put public interest, above bottom line.

 

[bellenuit]

Well, according to those charts we needn't bother doing anything else. Problem solved. What is all the fuss about

A ridiculous conclusion. But in any case it blows your statement that the vaccines do not stop infection right out of the water.

 

[pozindustrial]

I do not think you can make that definite statement, it could be that Dec was a peak anyway. My statement that the vaccine does not stop people becoming infected is still true, that is just a fact and plenty of stats in USA about how many vaccinated have tested positive since like the article from Forbes clearly showed.

 

[cynic]

A ridiculous conclusion. But in any case it blows your statement that the vaccines do not stop infection right out of the water.

Did you take seasonal factors into consideration when formulating your conclusion?

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Well I'm no expert but I've had the vaccine and if I'm advised to wear a mask, isolate or quarantine, I will do so.

No point in investing in the game of life if you lose your entire portfolio and cash because of a hunch or advice of the crowd.

gg

 

[IFocus]

Absolutely GG, we would be much better served under an authoritarian government, led by chairman Scott. Or at the least a Republic led by President Scott.?
Apparently the South Africa, want their stain , sorry strain removed, as do the U.K.?

Actually Morrison has done SFA (excuse the French) its the states that have controlled the COVID outbreaks and done all the heavy lifting including vaccinations Morrison has continued to oversee problem quarantine

 

[sptrawler]

Actually Morrison has done SFA (excuse the French) its the states that have controlled the COVID outbreaks and done all the heavy lifting including vaccinations Morrison has continued to oversee problem quarantine

AS they should. ?
Mate I know you have an issue with the coalition, I actually understand that coming from a trade background, but I don't think that is going to swing the election.
Most normal run of the mill workers aren't muppets, they know what is State and Federal responsibility, the only ones that don't are the ones that are dealing with centrelink and they blame everything on the federal government.
Barnett was bagged for building the hospitals, McGowan is bagged for not enough nurses, normal people do understand that health and hospitals is a State issue.
To try and appeal to them, that somehow the Federal government has a say in nursing, just makes them think the argument is nonsense.
Also as you, my other half did a diploma in nursing at Freo Hospital in the 70's, did a degree in nursing in the 90's and did a post grad degree in business after that.
So I'm not flying blind.?
McGowan has done a great job, so has most of the States, so has the Feds. Really even Labor Party die hards are starting to say they are sleep walking into a disaster.
Constantly bagging Morrison, when Australia is actually doing really well, just wont get traction.
Why isn't Albo just concentrating on the post covid Australia, the future where we can go, rather than sniping an nipping at the heals of what most see as a pretty successful dealing with a bad pandemic?

 

[bellenuit]

My statement that the vaccine does not stop people becoming infected is still true, that is just a fact and plenty of stats in USA about how many vaccinated have tested positive since like the article from Forbes clearly showed.

Yes, we know it is not 100% effective, so there are stats that show there is an extremely low infection rate for those that have taken the vaccine. I presume you haven't bothered to read the article I posted about 4 or 5 posts above:

COVID-19 infections are exceedingly rare after full vaccination: CDC​

COVID-19 infections are exceedingly rare after full vaccination: CDC

Only 0.01% of people tested positive for the coronavirus after getting fully vaccinated.

abcnews.go.com

These are based on actual real life figures, not stats promoted by Russian bloggers.

 

[bellenuit]

Did you take seasonal factors into consideration when formulating your conclusion?

We have already results that discount seasonal factors. One such study is an Israeli study I posted a while back now, a few months after the vaccine had been rolled out in Israel in two stages, firstly to the elderly and a month or so later to younger people, showing that infections in the elderly started to decline a few weeks after their vaccination commenced, while infections of the younger people continued to rise. It wasn't until a few weeks after the younger people started to be vaccinated that their infection rate began to fall. There are other studies.

We know a warming climate does help prevent the spread to a small degree, but observations from the US show that in states with a similar climate, the reduction in infections is correlated more with states that are actively encouraging vaccination and less so with states that are ambivalent about it.

Do you have any studies that show the drop off in infections to the extent observed is purely or predominantly due to seasonal factors?

 

[sptrawler]

Actually Morrison has done SFA (excuse the French) its the states that have controlled the COVID outbreaks and done all the heavy lifting including vaccinations Morrison has continued to oversee problem quarantine

Taking it one step further, you know as I do that your electrical license isn't recognised Australia wide, the States control the electrical licensing, same as they control the health i.e doctors, nurses, hospitals etc.
So as when Morrison told the States to open their borders, they told him to sod off, it is a bit rich to lay all the failings and non of the accolades at his feet.
I was leaning toward Albo, because I thought it is time for change and I did vote McGowan, but the more I see the ramping the more it increases my trepidation and I don't think I will be alone.
Look at it logically:
Australians are reluctant to get vaccine, because they feel safe here.
Moderna want to build mRNA production plant here, Morrison Gov has earmarked $1b to support it.
Morrison Gov instantly shutdown repatriations from India, now Victoria is crapping itself because Indian strain has an outbreak, which causes 7 day lockdown.
Meanwhile you are there with the tambourine saying Morrison has done SFA, well I hope Albo has a better plan, because as I said an election could be as early as October.
What are Labor offering?
So I guess the question is who are you appealing to? or is it like some in the Labor ranks are saying, you are just sounding like a bunch of whingers?
Labor can't win by just whining.

 

[cynic]

We have already results that discount seasonal factors. One such study is an Israeli study I posted a while back now, a few months after the vaccine had been rolled out in Israel in two stages, firstly to the elderly and a month or so later to younger people, showing that infections in the elderly started to decline a few weeks after their vaccination commenced, while infections of the younger people continued to rise. It wasn't until a few weeks after the younger people started to be vaccinated that their infection rate began to fall. There are other studies.

We know a warming climate does help prevent the spread to a small degree, but observations from the US show that in states with a similar climate, the reduction in infections is correlated more with states that are actively encouraging vaccination and less so with states that are ambivalent about it.

Do you have any studies that show the drop off in infections to the extent observed is purely or predominantly due to seasonal factors?

Let's just say that I have been making my own observations, and that I generally find that it pays to take "studies" on politically contentious issues, "with a grain of salt".

 

[pozindustrial]

Yes, we know it is not 100% effective, so there are stats that show there is an extremely low infection rate for those that have taken the vaccine. I presume you haven't bothered to read the article I posted about 4 or 5 posts above:

In your article post it says:

The CDC report notes that this is certainly an underestimate of breakthrough infections because all reporting was voluntary and many asymptomatic cases may never have been tested. Also, it's not clear from the study if breakthrough infections were more likely with new, concerning variants.

So I say again that vaccinated people can spread the virus and this will be a possible problem once international travel is restarted because like you, they think they are immune. That opens the possibility that many will disregard protections and spread the virus from other areas.