Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

Will the "Corona Virus" turn into a worldwide epidemic or fizzle out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 49.3%

  • No

    Votes: 9 12.0%

  • Bigger than SARS, but not worldwide epidemic (Black Death/bubonic plague)

    Votes: 25 33.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 5.3%
  • Total voters
    75
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SirRumpole said:
What can we learn from the 1918 flu ?

Not much apparently.

Click to expand...
It seems we are much better at alarm on viruses than back then, when they didn't even know about viruses, even though they exist.

Love the article "Doctors are concerned covid-19 can lead to lasting cardiovascular complications." Are concerned, how about unhealthy eating, lack of sunlight exposure, obesity (the USA and Australia are going for gold on that), exposure to man made chemicals in the home and our transport vehicles etc etc etc.

So in Vic we have had 50,000 tests done in 3 days, to find <5 cases, sounds like it must be the most contagious virus ever, lol.

We are willing to spend 100'sB $ on vaccines and economic support, but cannot do that to educate and help people live healthy lives. Our support for mental health across this country is abysmal, to say the least.

But this virus is our whole focus of attention.

You are right SIR, we have learnt not a single thing.
 
Dan seems to be one disaster after another. Nsw has done it better by a mile with the least amount of interruption during cases.
 
moXJO said:
Dan seems to be one disaster after another. Nsw has done it better by a mile with the least amount of interruption during cases.
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Avalon, Northern beaches, inner Sydney ? The whole of Greater Sydney was shut down for three weeks and other States shut off NSW.

This is not a political issue, if you want to make it one then start praising Qld and WA who have had virtually no cases.

www.abc.net.au

We mapped all of Sydney's COVID clusters — and they have one thing in common

NSW's current COVID-19 outbreak is likely almost at an end, if an analysis of State Government data is anything to go by, with clusters taking an average of three weeks to end.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
SirRumpole said:
Avalon, Northern beaches, inner Sydney ? The whole of Greater Sydney was shut down for three weeks and other States shut off NSW.

This is not a political issue, if you want to make it one then start praising Qld and WA who have had virtually no cases.

www.abc.net.au

We mapped all of Sydney's COVID clusters — and they have one thing in common

NSW's current COVID-19 outbreak is likely almost at an end, if an analysis of State Government data is anything to go by, with clusters taking an average of three weeks to end.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
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The rest of the state suffered did it?
And it was north shore shut off. Businesses ran as usual. And it didn't spread and was contained.

Dan did a snap lockdown before valentines day which smashed business once again. He has managed to get 800 deaths and the most restrictive lockdowns next to China.

Nothing to do with political its pretty plain to see.
 
SirRumpole said:
This is not a political issue, if you want to make it one then start praising Qld and WA who have had virtually no cases.
Click to expand...

You are correct, it is based on stupidity of Dan.

The figures do not match the statements by Dan, "Highly contagious, mutating virus". Well 70,000 test, 20,000 of close contacts with infected people to find less than <10 people. Numbers are numbers, they don't lie, words twist reality.

Dan got it wrong and the people of Victoria and business owners have had enough of CCP Dan.

Dan can not have it both ways, it is either highly contagious, so don't allow anyone in internationally unless they are returning Australias or open the international borders and let it rip.
 
Came across the Marsh family in Britain. Very musical, very clever. A lot of fun. Great parodies of what is happening under Covid.

 
sptrawler said:
Well a bit of an about face by the WHO, I guess the truth is starting to float to the top and people are starting to spray on the teflon?

au.news.yahoo.com

Explosive claims as report into Covid origins published

World Health Organisation chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has delivered an unlikely attack on China after the report into the origins of Covid was published.
au.news.yahoo.com au.news.yahoo.com
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The politicians said we should follow the science.
But when the science is inconvenient, we cast doubt.
This is what the WHO Director General actually said.
Despite zero evidence of a lab leak the DG caved in to US pressure - as they rejoined the WHO in February - to make additional resources available because it was not considered a "robust" finding.
Science is never conclusive, but the main problem with the lab leak hypothesis is that there is no actual evidence the virus existed in lab animals, nor that it could have been "man-made", let alone that it escaped.
So why does this idea keep getting traction? Because Americans have been told there there really is evidence, as seen from some of the thousands of articles similar to those below:
What we have arrived at is a mirror of the climate change denial scenario. Throw enough doubt and you hide the most likely reason for an event.
 
rederob said:
The politicians said we should follow the science.
But when the science is inconvenient, we cast doubt.
This is what the WHO Director General actually said.
Despite zero evidence of a lab leak the DG caved in to US pressure - as they rejoined the WHO in February - to make additional resources available because it was not considered a "robust" finding.
Science is never conclusive, but the main problem with the lab leak hypothesis is that there is no actual evidence the virus existed in lab animals, nor that it could have been "man-made", let alone that it escaped.
So why does this idea keep getting traction? Because Americans have been told there there really is evidence, as seen from some of the thousands of articles similar to those below:
What we have arrived at is a mirror of the climate change denial scenario. Throw enough doubt and you hide the most likely reason for an event.
Click to expand...
Or follow the media, bread trail.
 
sptrawler said:
Or follow the media, bread trail.
Click to expand...
You regularly deride the media.
Your apparent reliance on the media as a source of both information and problems in society is compounded if you do not check what they rely on for their content. The above was a case in point.

We currently have several more contagious and possibly more deadly viruses circulating the globe. An example is from a patient in critical condition in Adelaide with one of these strains, yet we have had over a year to prevent these occurrences. America is entering a new wave of covid infections due to variants, despite a massive vaccine effort and the capacity to also prevent such occurrences.

It seems somewhat misplaced to want to "blame China" for a virus that clearly can be contained with appropriate measures in place, but I guess having a scapegoat lets some world leaders off the hook for their incompetence.
 
rederob said:
It seems somewhat misplaced to want to "blame China" for a virus that clearly can be contained with appropriate measures in place, but I guess having a scapegoat lets some world leaders off the hook for their incompetence.
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Countries that operate wet markets are asking for trouble and that spreads to the rest of us.

They should close down these places and regulate their food supply better.
 
SirRumpole said:
Countries that operate wet markets are asking for trouble and that spreads to the rest of us.

They should close down these places and regulate their food supply better.
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Wet markets exist throughout Asia, Africa and Latin America and are more likely a problem for diseases other than covid.
Maybe we should kill off camels to prevent a recurrence of MERS, or kill off pigs to prevent a recurrence of swine flu? What about bird flu?

This article shows that flu "elimination" efforts are nugatory. Viruses mutate. Covid is a prime example.
Countries need to be better prepared for pandemics, full stop.
 
He did mention Wuhan is no backwater and compared it to Chicago
34374C14-E70E-4059-96C4-5CCC17B0385E.png
 
Humid said:
jamiemetzl.com

Origins of SARS-CoV-2 | Jamie Metzl

NOTE: This post was originally published on April 16, 2020 and has been updated regularly. Many people have reached out to me questioning the assertion I ha ...
jamiemetzl.com jamiemetzl.com

Watched this bloke on Joe Rogan was very compelling viewing
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I have read almost every conspiracy theory and pseudoscientific paper on the origins of covid and the only compelling case is that found by the WHO and presented last week.
I will pull apart some of Metzl's points. He said:
  • "In the critical first weeks after the outbreak, Wuhan authorities worked aggressively to silence the whistleblowers and destroy evidence that could prove incriminating."
Doctors were definitely not allowed to publicly communicate information about the virus, as at the time its nature was scientifically and medically uncertain. This is also the case in most nations - there is a process! - and if Australia's treatment of whistleblowers is anything to go by, Wuhan's doctors got off lightly.
Metzl's claim that evidence was destroyed is totally baseless. Who investigators actually met the first known case while in Wuhan.
  • "When Beijing authorities got involved a bit later, they likely faced a choice of implicating the Wuhan authorities, and, in effect, taking blame for what was quickly emerging as a major global problem, or turning into the curve and going all in for the coverup. I believe they likely chose the second option."
This is false. When the nature of the virus could not be determined Wuhan authorities actually sent out and alert, and a few days later Beijing had officially notified the WHO.
Furthermore, the "global problem" did not emerge for another month.
  • "The Chinese government then massively lobbied the WHO to prevent the WHO from declaring COVID-19 as an international emergency and prevented WHO investigators from entering China for nearly a month."
This is patently false. The WHO Emergency Committee has an international panel of 20 who decide on the facts and China's single voice was insignificant.
Furthermore, WHO experts from its China and Western Pacific regional offices conducted a field visit to Wuhan in late January - ie within 3 weeks of the WHO being notified - and again in February 2020.
  • "The Chinese authorities have gone to great lengths to destroy evidence and silence anyone in China who might be in a position to provide evidence on the origins of COVID-19."
Actually, and unsurprisingly, Chinese academics have now researched and written hundreds of papers on the possible origins of covid. Most of the material available to researchers/investigators is written in Chinese and only a small amount of the hundreds of thousands of pages of base material has been translated. This is yet another of Metzl's baseless claims.

Metzl may be a clever person, but he is incompetent on this issue.
 
If thats the best you can come up with from that then he is a lot more clever than you!
Try reading the whole article

The market is also less than 3 miles away from the Wuhan Centre for Disease Control, which:
  • Was accused of being the source of the outbreak from a now-withdrawn academic paper from a notable Chinese scholar at the South China University of China
  • Once kept horseshoe bats, a known reservoir of SARS-CoV-1, within its labs
  • Once performed surgery on live animals within its labs
  • Had a researcher who quarantined on two separate occasions; once upon coming into contact with bat blood after being ’attacked’ and another time when he was urinated upon in a cave while wearing inadequate personal protection
  • Had previously done bat virus research funded by the US NIH (in a grant to EcoHealth Alliance)
  • possessed the virus that is the most closely related known virus in the world to the outbreak virus, bat virus RaTG13. This virus was isolated in 2013 and had its genome published on January 23, 2020. Seven more years of bat coronavirus collection followed the 2013 RaTG13 isolation. One component of the novel-bat-virus project at the Wuhan Institute of Virology involved infection of laboratory animals with bat viruses. Therefore, the possibility of a lab accident includes scenarios with direct transmission of a bat virus to a lab worker, scenarios with transmission of a bat virus to a laboratory animal and then to a lab worker, and scenarios involving improper disposal of laboratory animals or laboratory waste. (Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists)
 
Humid said:
If thats the best you can come up with from that then he is a lot more clever than you!
Try reading the whole article

The market is also less than 3 miles away from the Wuhan Centre for Disease Control, which:
  • Was accused of being the source of the outbreak from a now-withdrawn academic paper from a notable Chinese scholar at the South China University of China
  • Once kept horseshoe bats, a known reservoir of SARS-CoV-1, within its labs
  • Once performed surgery on live animals within its labs
  • Had a researcher who quarantined on two separate occasions; once upon coming into contact with bat blood after being ’attacked’ and another time when he was urinated upon in a cave while wearing inadequate personal protection
  • Had previously done bat virus research funded by the US NIH (in a grant to EcoHealth Alliance)
  • possessed the virus that is the most closely related known virus in the world to the outbreak virus, bat virus RaTG13. This virus was isolated in 2013 and had its genome published on January 23, 2020. Seven more years of bat coronavirus collection followed the 2013 RaTG13 isolation. One component of the novel-bat-virus project at the Wuhan Institute of Virology involved infection of laboratory animals with bat viruses. Therefore, the possibility of a lab accident includes scenarios with direct transmission of a bat virus to a lab worker, scenarios with transmission of a bat virus to a laboratory animal and then to a lab worker, and scenarios involving improper disposal of laboratory animals or laboratory waste. (Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists)
Click to expand...
Those matters - apart from bat research - are ancient history and have been debunked in the context of "origins" so many times it's now farcical you would bother re-presenting them.
Yes, Wuhan's labs lead the world in coronavirus research relating to bats. However, the virus would need to have existed in the lab for it to have been accidentally released in the first place. Furthermore, genetically speaking an intermediate animal is the most likely source. Somehow we need to suspend rational belief and interpose a series of most unlikely events rather than genetic mutation as a cause for covid.
 
That farcical not worth investigating?
Bit like Porter not wanting an investigation much be catchy....


  • The int’l team saw its task as finding a zoonotic source of animal transition in the wild, not seeking the actual source of the pandemic. There’s a big difference. They set out to prove one hypothesis, not fairly examine all of them… The int’l team bent over backwards trying to validate the zoonotic jump and frozen food theses but didn’t lift a finger to seriously consider the lab leak hypothesis, I’m guessing out of fear their Chinese gov’t hosts would stop tossing them table scraps if offended… @Peterfoodsafety admitted that the joint mission remit did not include exploring a possible lab leak. So how could they possibly have determined a lab leak was “highly unlikely” w/o the most basic of examination and with no access to relevant resources? It doesn’t make sense… I’ve called the join study process non-credible because it’s examining some hypotheses but not others & using different evidentiary standards for different theories. Absurd to say there’s no evidence for lab leak when charging forward on zoonosis & cold chain w/o evidence… The hero of the day was clearly @DrTedros, who brilliantly protected the credibility of the @WHO… The tragedy is that over a yr after the pandemic began, with millions dead & billions disrupted, there’s no credible int’l pandemic origins investigation. Because our future safety depends on understanding how this tragedy began & our ensuing failures, that should terrify us.”
  • The same day, the governments of the United States of America, Australia, Canada, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Israel, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway, the Republic of Korea, Slovenia, and the United Kingdom issued a very important joint statement asserting that they “support a transparent and independent analysis and evaluation, free from interference and undue influence, of the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic… [and] join in expressing shared concerns regarding the recent WHO-convened studyin China.” They also expressed their “shared concerns that the international expert study on the source of the SARS-CoV-2 virus was significantly delayed and lacked access to complete, original data and samples.”
 
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