Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[wayneL]

This is how you are being played

https://evidencenotfear.com/how-sage-and-uk-media-created-fear-in-the-british-public/

 

[wayneL]

Sorry if the facts contradicted your opinions.

The facts of the Sweden approach are incontrovertible, Horace.

I invite you to examine them in depth.

 

[Knobby22]

It's not good to see we have so many modern Mahatma Gandhi aspirants,

Passive resistance for the common harm.

 

[rederob]

As I see it, they've got two choices basically:

1. Lock down hard and actually eradicate it.

2. "Let it rip" as effectively an isolated nation of sorts. Go down that track and odds are the other states will stop anyone entering from Victoria no matter who they are or what their reason for entering.

There is a "containment" option.
The virus exists elsewhere, so if people come from elsewhere then they only get "here" AFTER they have tested negative.
If people want or need to cross borders, then test them and track them for a short time and, ideally, test them again a week later even if asymptomatic.
Australia has not adopted best practice, which mandates wearing masks, so until this aspect is a feature of our day to day public lives we pretty well deserve what we get.

 

[sptrawler]

Daniel Andrews Press Conference at 2.30. Not looking good.

View attachment 106814

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...st-lockdown-as-south-africa-cases-pass-500000

Sounded very Trump like.

 

[sptrawler]

There is a "containment" option.
The virus exists elsewhere, so if people come from elsewhere then they only get "here" AFTER they have tested negative.
If people want or need to cross borders, then test them and track them for a short time and, ideally, test them again a week later even if asymptomatic.
Australia has not adopted best practice, which mandates wearing masks, so until this aspect is a feature of our day to day public lives we pretty well deserve what we get.

If people would follow the rules, that would be a workable idea, but this is Australia.
You can't encourage society to ridicule and demean authority, then turn around in the next breath and tell them to follow what the authorities tell them.
That is the major flaw, with our media driven social engineering programme and it starts in pre school.

 

[rederob]

If people would follow the rules, that would be a workable idea, but this is Australia.
If people kept left unless overtaking, we could probably reduce the road toll and the need to add extra lanes to freeways, but this is Australia.

But we could be like Sweden - they keep to the left!

 

[qldfrog]

Sorry if the facts contradicted your opinions.

Facts are here and sweden is winning, but why spoil a good horror story
Lock down lockdown
We had a WWII and millions died for freedom, 70 years later, people do not want to even catch a flu for freedom
Worse than Chinese population, at least they got money out of the deal

 

[sptrawler]

But we could be like Sweden - they keep to the left!

The way Victoria is going, they could very well end up like Sweden, which wouldn't be funny at all.

 

[satanoperca]

If people would follow the rules, that would be a workable idea, but this is Australia.

You only need 5% of the population not to follow the rules and the system fails in containing this virus.

Have 98-100% of the population ever followed the rules? NO

Has the war on drugs worked? NO

Has the war on terrorism worked? NO

Have we eliminated poverty? NO

Are we able to look after the environment? NO

Is Covid-19 any difference to humans (virus on the earth)? NO

If 99.9% of people followed the rules, we would have no need for police, locks on our cars and homes etc etc etc

Pipe dreams, be realistic people. Accept the facts, not ideas.

 

[rederob]

Facts are here and sweden is winning, but why spoil a good horror story
Lock down lockdown
We had a WWII and millions died for freedom, 70 years later, people do not want to even catch a flu for freedom
Worse than Chinese population, at least they got money out of the deal

You only need 5% of the population not to follow the rules and the system fails in containing this virus.

Have 98-100% of the population ever followed the rules? NO

Has the war on drugs worked? NO

Has the war on terrorism worked? NO

Have we eliminated poverty? NO

Are we able to look after the environment? NO

Is Covid-19 any difference to humans (virus on the earth)? NO

If 99.9% of people followed the rules, we would have no need for police, locks on our cars and homes etc etc etc

Pipe dreams, be realistic people. Accept the facts, not ideas.

Exponential spread begins from ONE.

 

[qldfrog]

The way Victoria is going, they could very well end up like Sweden, which wouldn't be funny at all.

They will but we will still claim victory as we did lockdown
Let's stay with fake news, we know who will die and so should protect, let the 20y old rave and make sure aged care facilities are locked down as are hospitals, prepare inter state evacuations, do a bit of PR so that the real vulnerable people are aware, recommend sun exposure, vit supplements and proper healthy lifestyle, learn from abroad basically...

 

[satanoperca]

Exponential spread begins from ONE.

I agree, so it is thus impossible to stop the spread.

Actually, for the short term, you can lock down everyone, no movement of people anywhere. But that can only last short term, as we do not live in a world where everyone can exist in isolation.

Ie, we all need food. How does that food come to our homes, if no one can move?

We all don't have a vegie garden and chook house. So people need to plant, pick and process the food, then deliver it to say supermarkets, people then need to travel to the supermarkets to purchase the food, they cannot do this in isolation.

So to believe we can irradicate this virus is foolhardy at best.

 

[rederob]

I agree, so it is thus impossible to stop the spread.

Based on what some countries have achieved, the clear answer is no.
The point is that if some people are going to put their personal freedoms above the rest of their community and flout the law, lie and deceive, then we get a "Victoria."

 

[sptrawler]

Based on what some countries have achieved, the clear answer is no.
The point is that if some people are going to put their personal freedoms above the rest of their community and flout the law, lie and deceive, then we get a "Victoria."

Which is driven by a lack of respect for the law and the law makers.IMO
Probably comes under the broad heading of entitlement, which is rampant ATM.

 

[qldfrog]

They will but we will still claim victory as we did lockdown
Let's stay with fake news, we know who will die and so should protect, let the 20y old rave and make sure aged care facilities are locked down as are hospitals, prepare inter state evacuations, do a bit of PR so that the real vulnerable people are aware, recommend sun exposure, vit supplements and proper healthy lifestyle, learn from abroad basically...

Btw, in no way do i under estimate the nastiness of the virus,jus5 a matter of proportion and numbers.
Public health should be a matter of numbers and stats, not ideology.
We see that already with helmets laws etc
Yes helmets are useful but mandatory helmets results in less usage and failure here of ride a bike schemes, more obesity in children or non compliance to laws .not complying with even stupid laws is not healthy for society
Anyway here as elsewhere, a fight between individual responsability and slavery for the better of all
I know where I stand, and many others disagree and stand on the other side of the paradise of collectivism.sadly this is costing lives which are mandated by the government whereas the free approach is a more Darwinian view.
If you want to participate to a covid party, feel free and improve the gene pool

Always back to this sadly, whatever the numbers..and i find this sad.

 

[satanoperca]

Based on what some countries have achieved, the clear answer is no.
The point is that if some people are going to put their personal freedoms above the rest of their community and flout the law, lie and deceive, then we get a "Victoria."

But you are stating the obvious, some people, % of the population, not just Victorians have always done this, flouted the law.

So why does this situation make it any different?

Redrob, apart from NZ what countries have managed to get this under control?

 

[satanoperca]

Which is driven by a lack of respect for the law and the law makers.IMO

But that has always been the case. While out of the news, ICE/drug use has increased, that is not following the letter of the law, but it exists and will continue to.

So why do we believe that humans will all of a sudden follow new rules? It is naive to think that.

 

[sptrawler]

But that has always been the case. While out of the news, ICE/drug use has increased, that is not following the letter of the law, but it exists and will continue to.

So why do we believe that humans will all of a sudden follow new rules? It is naive to think that.

I'm making the point, that in recent times the media has made a sport out of undermining politicians/social norms and authority in general, the side effect of this is it becomes socially acceptable to mimic that behaviour.
Hasn't there been a massive increase in socially unacceptable behaviour and assaults on teachers, by students in schools.
There has been a marked increase, over recent years, in assaults on police, road rage, assaults on the elderly etc.
Humans don't follow the letter of the law, but the more the masses are told the social and authoritarian structures are a sham, the more they are going to disregard them.
When the majority accepts that it is a sham, anarchy rules.
What is naive, is to think that not following the rules, is acceptable and will lead to a better outcome.

 

[satanoperca]

What is naive, is to think that not following the rules, is acceptable and will lead to a better outcome.

Agreed, but that is also asking people to have some level of empathy and understanding.