Christmas

[Value Collector]

Yes, interesting. I wonder what atheists would take an oath on ? A copy of Dawkin's "The God Delusion perhaps ?

What about agnostics ? Maybe a Thesaurus perhaps .

A few people have started taking oaths on the constitution.

When I joined the army we had the choice to take the oath on the bible or not, they made us heathens that refused to hold up bibles stand in the back, lol.

 

[Value Collector]

"I swear by Almighty God that the evidence I shall give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth."[/I]

I can't see how invoking ones imaginary friend lends any more credibility, lol.

Romans used to have to hold their hand in the mouth of a statue that was said to bite off the hand if the person lied, I guess it might work if your the type of person that takes myths seriously.

 

[SirRumpole]

A few people have started taking oaths on the constitution.

When I joined the army we had the choice to take the oath on the bible or not, they made us heathens that refused to hold up bibles stand in the back, lol.

So what did you take your oath on ?

 

[Value Collector]

So what did you take your oath on ?

Nothing, you just make a promise to serve the queen just like the guys holding bibles, except you don't have to hold a bible and you don't have to mention any gods.

Here is what you have to say.

I, (insert full name of person) swear that I will well and truly serve Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law, as a member of the

(insert Australian Navy , Australian Army , or Australian Air Force )

(insert

for the period of (number of years) , and any extensions of that period,

The other option only differs by holding up a bible and adding "so help me god " at the end

 

[pixel]

Yes, interesting. I wonder what atheists would take an oath on ? A copy of Dawkin's "The God Delusion perhaps ?

What about agnostics ? Maybe a Thesaurus perhaps .

Why does one need a book to make an assertion or a promise?
The true-blue Aussie way that I was taught and experienced doesn't need a book. All it takes is a clear statement and a firm handshake. If you don't trust each other on that, paraphernalia won't make a difference.

I'd rather trust an honest atheist giving his word on his honour than a crooked pretender invoking a deity or his mother's honour. She may not have such a thing.

 

[SirRumpole]

Nothing, you just make a promise to serve the queen just like the guys holding bibles, except you don't have to hold a bible and you don't have to mention any gods.

Here is what you have to say.



The other option only differs by holding up a bible and adding "so help me god " at the end

Can Republicans delete the Queen reference ?

 

[SirRumpole]

Why does one need a book to make an assertion or a promise?
The true-blue Aussie way that I was taught and experienced doesn't need a book. A clear statement and a firm handshake are all it takes. If you don't trust each other on that, paraphernalia won't make a difference.

Yes I agree, sort of.

We can swear allegiance to the Constitution, but that is still a document. People immigrating here should have to make a statement that they will defend our Constitution, otherwise we shouldn't let them in.

If we give evidence in Court do we need to swear on anything, given that telling lies in Court is a crime of perjury ?

 

[Value Collector]

Can Republicans delete the Queen reference ?

Lol, no.

Unforntunatly you can't join the Queens army without swearing allegiance to the queen. That's the crazy thing about the Australian oath of allegiance, you don't actually have to swear allegiance to Australia, it's states, its citizens or its government, just the queen.

 

[Tisme]

Nothing, you just make a promise to serve the queen just like the guys holding bibles, except you don't have to hold a bible and you don't have to mention any gods.

Here is what you have to say.



The other option only differs by holding up a bible and adding "so help me god " at the end

so the Queen being the head of the anglican Church, you took an oath to serve The Church of England.

 

[Tisme]

Why does one need a book to make an assertion or a promise?
The true-blue Aussie way that I was taught and experienced doesn't need a book. All it takes is a clear statement and a firm handshake. If you don't trust each other on that, paraphernalia won't make a difference.

I'd rather trust an honest atheist giving his word on his honour than a crooked pretender invoking a deity or his mother's honour. She may not have such a thing.

Because the written word is accepted in law as more truthful/factual than word from mouth.

It plays a pivotal role in giving credibility of evidence to coppers when they recite facts from their notepads.

The pen is mightier than the discord.

 

[Value Collector]

so the Queen being the head of the anglican Church, you took an oath to serve The Church of England.

I took an oath to serve the queen, As the queen of Australia, what her other hobby's are doesn't both me.

Really I couldn't care less about the Queen, I really signed up for adventure and to serve Australia, but to be allowed to do that I had to say I would serve the Queen, a small price to pay.

 

[pixel]

Because the written word is accepted in law as more truthful/factual than word from mouth.

It plays a pivotal role in giving credibility of evidence to coppers when they recite facts from their notepads.

The pen is mightier than the discord.

It appears that you misunderstood, Tisme

Whether someone takes an oath on the bible, q'ran, or Grimm's fairy tales, nothing is written into the book; nor is there anything read from that book. They simply hold it in their hand as a prop and recite the applicable promise, be it to uphold the constitution, serve the people, or tell the truth. None of that takes a book or any other prop.
I even find it quaintly amusing when some people end their pledge with "swelpmegod". That sounds to me like having doubt about one's ability to indeed be truthful, as if saying "okay, I'll try; but if I fail it'll be just as much the big guy's fault that he didn't help me enough."

 

[Value Collector]

They simply hold it in their hand as a prop

A prop which most of them have probably not even read.

What I find amusing is that they may be swearing an oath on a bible, but are actually being charged with a crime which the bible condones.

 

[luutzu]

Is this the biggest Christmas hangover or what?

 

[Tom32]

I took an oath to serve the queen, As the queen of Australia, what her other hobby's are doesn't both me.

Really I couldn't care less about the Queen, I really signed up for adventure and to serve Australia, but to be allowed to do that I had to say I would serve the Queen, a small price to pay.

I can still remember when in scouts the scouts promise went from "do my duty to God and to the queen" to "do my duty to my God and to the queen of Australia"

I reckon that would have been late 80s.

Also While that feels etched in my memory I have possibly got an inconsequential word wrong here or there... Look forward to being corrected though.

 

[SirRumpole]

I can still remember when in scouts the scouts promise went from "do my duty to God and to the queen" to "do my duty to my God and to the queen of Australia"

I reckon that would have been late 80s.

Also While that feels etched in my memory I have possibly got an inconsequential word wrong here or there... Look forward to being corrected though.

I was only in the cubs and it was "dib dib dib we'll do our best". None of this God and queen stuff.

 

[Tisme]

It appears that you misunderstood, Tisme

Whether someone takes an oath on the bible, q'ran, or Grimm's fairy tales, nothing is written into the book; nor is there anything read from that book. They simply hold it in their hand as a prop and recite the applicable promise, be it to uphold the constitution, serve the people, or tell the truth. None of that takes a book or any other prop.
I even find it quaintly amusing when some people end their pledge with "swelpmegod". That sounds to me like having doubt about one's ability to indeed be truthful, as if saying "okay, I'll try; but if I fail it'll be just as much the big guy's fault that he didn't help me enough."

I think it's implied the swearer abides by the terms and conditions of the book, therefore the heads of agreement ceremony. Viv the abridged version.

I am also of the opinion that any non believer who takes umbrage at swearing an oath to something that doesn't exist is showing his/her true protest colours of actually believing in a God, but trying to deny the same.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think it's implied the swearer abides by the terms and conditions of the book, therefore the heads of agreement ceremony. Viv the abridged version.

I am also of the opinion that any non believer who takes umbrage at swearing an oath to something that doesn't exist is showing his/her true protest colours of actually believing in a God, but trying to deny the same.

The point about swearing on the Bible was probably the belief that the Almighty would strike you down if you told a lie.

The fact that people have been convicted of perjury puts this theory in great doubt, so there isn't much point swearing on the Bible. What else I wonder ?

I swear on a hit man that he will execute me if I tell a lie ? This would probably be more effective.

 

[Value Collector]

I am also of the opinion that any non believer who takes umbrage at swearing an oath to something that doesn't exist is showing his/her true protest colours of actually believing in a God, but trying to deny the same.

Bibles and religions do exist, and those morally bankrupt things are what we don't want to have anything to do with.

When people protest against religion, we are not protesting against your god, we don't think your god exists, we are protesting against your morally bankrupt religion and standing up for our right not to be free of it.

If someone said we had to take an oath to the lochness monster, if we said that's stupid, we don't want to do that, that doesn't mean we must believe in the lochness monster.

 

[Value Collector]

The fact that people have been convicted of perjury puts this theory in great doubt, so there isn't much point swearing on the Bible. What else I wonder ?

Maybe just get them to sign a document that lays out the penalties they will fact if they are found telling a lie, and then have them hold that up and swear that they will tell the truth, and if found to be lying that they will accept the penalties laid out.