Bible Verse of the Day

[tcoates]

Kennas,

Think that if you knew which church David123 belonged to, you might also understand his background (whether you agree with it or not is not the point).

You all take the view...

bible implies christian implies "same beliefs"

WHAT A BUNCH OF TWADDLE?

Tim

 

[treefrog]

For those following Christian religions, "going to Church" remains a central part of their "Faith". It is front and centre of all mainsteam Christian beliefs.

disagrees with the duck from personal experiencen my mother's side (scottish) of the fence they were very christian but very anti "bricks and mortar" type church based religions.

love your "balance" views wayne - can't help wondering what the religious zealot's thought process is when reading those - I presume one day the penny finally drops

 

[bunyip]

Dont look like you goin to heaven wayne

Course Wayne is going to heaven.....otherwise how will I ever handle all those sex crazed ex-virgins up there by myself, after the Muslim terrorists who own them have all dropped dead from exhaustion?
I mean, 80 virgins per man would take a heavy toll on even the fittest bloke. Those Muslim terrorists believe their life on Earth will be short and glorious, and will be followed by an equally glorious life in heaven with their 80 virgins. But unless they learn how to pace themselves with all those ladies, their life in heaven might be even shorter than their Earthly life was.
But that's OK.....that's where Wayne and I step in and offer our services.
Matter of fact we might even recruit David123 to give us a hand when he turns up in heaven.
What do you say David....are you a starter?

 

[Duckman#72]

Duckman, I think Kennas has answered this. When Christians start making threatening noises that if we don't follow their beliefs we will come to a sticky end, it's difficult not to be irritated.

I imagine your comment above was directed at me. Yes, I did support those people who wanted to exchange what looked like being inspirational, encouraging Bible verses, because even non-Christians can quite enjoy some of that. But that wasn't what was continued.

Btw, we're not all atheists if we don't follow a Christian religion and attend a church. I, for example, am agnostic. I have no idea whether there is a God or not and remain open minded on the subject. I think most atheists are quick to acknowledge the hypocrisy which often exists amongst organised religion and it is this we object to.

Hi Julia

My comments were more related to "the vibe" of the posts. Not you specifically. I really can understand your view. I'm just throwing my hat in the ring here because it seems it is David versus the rest. (Believe me I'm not sure that I want David "on my side":

It just surprises me that as a "not very practising" Catholic, I was not at all offended or upset by David's post. Yet as a "believer" shouldn't I have the most to fear?

Those people who are atheists and agnostics seem to have taken great offence to the posts - yet they don't believe anyway!!

Shouldn't it be water off a ducks back. Whether I am representative of the silent majority is open to argument - I believe in God, go to Church irregularly, don't preach to friends/strangers/family. What always surprises me is the passion and viciousness of the people both sides of me. Those hardcore religious supporters to the left of me and the Anti-Christers to the right.

Each to their own. Let's not forget that the thread is not called "Inspiration Thoughts for the Day". I personally have only ever entered this thread to view the arguments. Seems like heaps of others have to.

Here's a thought - maybe we should get back to entering into this thread if we are prepared to tolerate what is written in the Bible?

Duckman

 

[Sean K]

Those people who are atheists and agnostics seem to have taken great offence to the posts - yet they don't believe anyway!!

Shouldn't it be water off a ducks back.

Yes duckman, can seem strange.

If I don't believe in Hell, then who cares if someone tells me I'm going there?

Well, to the athiest/non/not sure/ believer it's not a question of Hell, it's a question of good morals, values, and virtues.

When someone tells me I'm going to Hell, it infers that I am being a bad person.

This is incredibly insulting.

 

[tcoates]

Between the various posts from David123 there seems to be a lot of *other stuff* that would appear to be illogical argument. Here are some other link I think readers should consider...

C.S.Lewis - Hell is not some medieval Dante Peak type thing

http://www.amazon.com/tag/atheism/f...orum=Fx3VDTKO61HE6U7&cdThread=Tx21OG743OVXH4C

On good people going to hell

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_good_people_go_to_hell

A couple of years old now (for your viewing), "Who wrote the bible..."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2061773048178434620

And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors_of_the_Bible

I am not supporting David123 and his views, but I think the views from the opposite side are equally skewed.

Tim

 

[Julia]

Yes duckman, can seem strange.

If I don't believe in Hell, then who cares if someone tells me I'm going there?

Well, to the athiest/non/not sure/ believer it's not a question of Hell, it's a question of good morals, values, and virtues.

When someone tells me I'm going to Hell, it infers that I am being a bad person.

This is incredibly insulting.

Agreed. There just always seems to be that implication that a sense of morality must derive from a belief in a God/practice of religion.

 

[Wysiwyg]

It starts with interfering in the life of somebody else.

Either verbally (telling people how it`s going to be, lying, abusive, derogatory, belittling words) or physically (stealing, hitting, etc. -- watch nightly news for more examples -- ) .
Then follows retaliation, fighting, revenge, punishment and the perpetuation of all we seek to avoid.

What is the moral of the story?

When we live and let live, we don't need to criticize, judge, or condemn others. We have no need to control them or try and make them conform to our way of thinking. We let others live their own lives and we live ours.

 

[jonojpsg]

Yes duckman, can seem strange.

If I don't believe in Hell, then who cares if someone tells me I'm going there?

Well, to the athiest/non/not sure/ believer it's not a question of Hell, it's a question of good morals, values, and virtues.

When someone tells me I'm going to Hell, it infers that I am being a bad person.

This is incredibly insulting.

surely though kennas you can see that you going to hell has nothing to do with you being a bad person per se. The basic theology is that because we (humans) chose to do our own thing rather than God's we are responsible for it. God made that situation right by paying for all our sins with Jesus' death.

If we choose not to accept that payment then nothing else will. Makes sense when you think about it - I mean God gave people plenty of chances to do the right thing but it just doesn't work that way because in the end we want to do our own thing.

I appreciate that you are probably a great guy and I like to think I'm pretty good too as do most if not all of us. From a Christian perspective though that doesn't cut it.

 

[jonojpsg]

Agreed. There just always seems to be that implication that a sense of morality must derive from a belief in a God/practice of religion.

Oh and on this, the sense of morality that we have is used as part of the evidence that points to the existence of God (CS Lewis). Doesn't mean you have to believe in God to have morals though because they are are innate part of us all.

 

[rub92me]

91 posts and counting, getting close to a new troll record. Amen.

 

[2020hindsight]

I'm guessing that many middle aged "Atheists" become "Anglical Atheists" (or "Catholic Atheists") on their deathbeds. - dollar each way sorta thing.

 

[Seneca60BC]

Jesus said: "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.You will know them by their fruits."

 

[wayneL]

Duckman,

I've no need to repeat what Kennas and Julia have said in response to your post, they are spot on.

But for the record: I am not an atheist. I am not even an agnostic either. I like the Tao Te Ching in a philosophical sense, but I'm not a Taoist. My "belief" metamorphoses as I go along, according to what I experience and what I learn.

I have no problem with Christianity or Christians and will even go along to church if I am visiting with people who go (never under my own steam though).

I have friends from Atheism, Gnosticism, Agnosticism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism and Taoism and I respect them all for their beliefs because they are very mature about them. We can all have discussions about the individual beliefs and philosophies and even debate about the "holes" in each others beliefs (sometimes hotly) without taking insult.

Why? Because there is an implicit trust that none of us will try to #### with others minds by using fear or guilt, that would be a breach of trust. Nobody ever says "You must be a (fill in religion here) otherwise your soul is doomed. Nobody thinks the other is going to hell. That would mean the end of friendships.

That is what has happened in this thread. There was a breach of that "implicit trust" by the attempt to use fear. Dave123 is not here to share Bible quotes, he is here to proselytize, and that is why people have become offended.

If I've offended other Christians, I apologize, that was not my intention. There are many cool Christians on this board who I would hate to ever offend.

your comment was quite bizarre Wayne. For someone that is usually so logical and knowledgable with their arguments I can't believe that it slipped out.

For those following Christian religions, "going to Church" remains a central part of their "Faith". It is front and centre of all mainsteam Christian beliefs.

Think of what Church is and what Bible passage(s) infers Church-going (without getting into arguments of authenticity):

1/ Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

2/ Generally, the Book of Acts.

These two infer two radically different scenarios.

In 1/, any group of two or more who meet for the purpose of support, prayer, teaching etc is a church. It can be in "a church", or it can be under a thorn tree on the Serengeti Plain. It wouldn't matter. This is why groups like the Quakers have no "church".

In 2/ however, and entirely different scenario evolves post crucifixion. What is described in Acts is a socialist commune... from each his ability and to each their need. No "private" wealth was allowed as Ananias and Sapphira discovered in Acts 5.

Under this model every church is now most certainly apostate... and I need not go into lengthy prognostications there, just read Acts.

As this post is getting lengthy, I'll leave you to decipher of the implications of each.

 

[Julia]

Duckman, because I respect and like you, I've been giving your post some more thought.

You've told us that you believe in God, go to church etc. But what you haven't done is try to prosletyze to us with biblical quotations designed to make us quake in our agnostic or atheistic shoes in fear. This is the difference between you and David 123.

I note that David 123 hasn'tso far responded to my question about what he does in ordinary daily living to demonstrate his goodness as a person. He might even be a computer generated bible quoting non-person for all we know.

I think we need to remember that this is a public forum. When we make a post we do it in the full knowledge that we are putting up our opinions with the understanding that other people may differ from the views we express and will therefore challenge us on what we have said. Doesn't matter whether it's about Hell or BNB.

I don't see any reason why biblical quotations, and the motives of people quoting them, should be any exception to this.

So if some ASF member decides to imply that I, and my co-agnostics/atheists will be consigned forever to the most fiery of Hells because I don't repent of my multiple sins and smartly get myself into some building devoted to the worship of a God, then I will reserve the right always to challenge that.

All the best
Julia

 

[Duckman#72]

Hi Wayne

Think of what Church is and what Bible passage(s) infers Church-going (without getting into arguments of authenticity):

1/ Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Correct - and the place for such gatherings is usually referred to as ......"a Church".

"I will make them joyful in my house of prayer. Their holocausts and their sufferings will be accepted on my alter, for my house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples" Is 56:7

In 1/, any group of two or more who meet for the purpose of support, prayer, teaching etc is a church. It can be in "a church", or it can be under a thorn tree on the Serengeti Plain. It wouldn't matter. This is why groups like the Quakers have no "church"

I totally agree with your interpretation Wayne. I was making the point that "going to Church" plays a central part to mainstream Christian faith regardless of whether it is St Paul's Cathedral or under a thorn tree in the Serengeti Plain. The common link is that they are meeting a group for the purpose of prayer as you established above.

(And one other thing - would people please not treat me as a religious crank just because I've quoted from the Bible. I know it is the fastest way to lose Forum Cred!!!)

Duckman

 

[Julia]

H
(And one other thing - would people please not treat me as a religious crank just because I've quoted from the Bible. I know it is the fastest way to lose Forum Cred!!!)

Duckman

Ah Duckman, don't think you're in any danger of losing Forum cred yet!

 

[nomore4s]

I know it is the fastest way to lose Forum Cred!!!

Add in the fact your an Essendon nut as well and................

:

 

[Duckman#72]

Duckman, because I respect and like you, I've been giving your post some more thought.

You've told us that you believe in God, go to church etc. But what you haven't done is try to prosletyze to us with biblical quotations designed to make us quake in our agnostic or atheistic shoes in fear. This is the difference between you and David 123.


So if some ASF member decides to imply that I, and my co-agnostics/atheists will be consigned forever to the most fiery of Hells because I don't repent of my multiple sins and smartly get myself into some building devoted to the worship of a God, then I will reserve the right always to challenge that.

Hi Julia

Look I completely agree about Bible-Bashing, fist-thumping religious nutjobs banging on about how only they have the answer to eternal life. David didn't treat members with any respect and deserves every criticism for that.

I just believe that ASF needs decide whether to allow a thread titled "Bible Verse of the Day" or it doesn't. If it does allow it then, it needs to be prepared to allow it in its entirety. I don't believe that such a thread can be self-censored to determine what verse is acceptable and which one isn't.

It is an attack on freedom of speech. I am getting so left-wing on this I'm scaring myself Hey - why anyone would want to go on ASF and write about impending doom and fire and brimstone, I have no idea but I still stand up for those wanting to quote verse s from the Bible to be able to do so in a thread called..."Bible Verse of the Day", without censorship.

We might have to agree to disagree. As always - I really enjoy talking with you Julia. I've said it before, you are such a caring soul on this ASF. All the best.

Duckman

 

[Duckman#72]

Add in the fact your an Essendon nut as well and................

:

Ha ha ha ....get to bed Nomores. That baby must be letting you have too much awake time!!!