Australian Politics General...

[Smurf1976]

Just a comment made today by a friend I haven't spoken to for ~6 months and who normally takes no interest in politics.

In short they're truly fed up with hearing about the conduct of politicians or staff and the various fringe issues affecting at most a small minority of the population meanwhile the price of everything from council rates to food is surging, there's ambulance ramping, there's far less than ideal outcomes with education, and so on.

 

[wayneL]

Just a comment made today by a friend I haven't spoken to for ~6 months and who normally takes no interest in politics.

In short they're truly fed up with hearing about the conduct of politicians or staff and the various fringe issues affecting at most a small minority of the population meanwhile the price of everything from council rates to food is surging, there's ambulance ramping, there's far less than ideal outcomes with education, and so on.

Fair comment.

But while the plebeians take little interest and vote for one of the majors on what amounts to little more than a whim, this will continue ad infinitum.

Neither Liberal or Labor has the intellectual capacity or will to solve the problems mentioned, not without the impetus of people increasingly voting for credible alternatives.

Your friend should wake the fark up and understand his/her vote has consequences.

 

[Smurf1976]

Your friend should wake the fark up and understand his/her vote has consequences.

Trouble is convincing them, and indeed most of the population, to do so.

I do agree with the sentiment they expressed though. Enough with the scandals, behaviour of politicians and so on - fix the problems affecting real people.

For my own research well I'm not being pushy but if anyone I know or even just meet says anything about the state of the economy then I'm paying attention and letting the conversation run to hear what they say. Anecdotally it's not the slow creeping inflation that's upsetting anyone, rather it's the big single jumps in utilities, rates etc.

 

[SirRumpole]

Just a comment made today by a friend I haven't spoken to for ~6 months and who normally takes no interest in politics.

In short they're truly fed up with hearing about the conduct of politicians or staff and the various fringe issues affecting at most a small minority of the population meanwhile the price of everything from council rates to food is surging, there's ambulance ramping, there's far less than ideal outcomes with education, and so on.

Absolutely agree.

There are processes now in Parliament for settling personal disputes, debates in both Houses should only be concerned with matters related to making life for the citizens better.

 

[sptrawler]

Even the Kiwis had a claw back provision for their job keeper total cluster not surprising that Labor will run an inquiry total free kick politics wise

You will never change rusted on bias, I've learnt that over a lifetime, actually had a dose of it tonight.
My mate that I keep mentioning who retired recently, I tried to explain an EV and subsidised solar on his roof would be an absolute winner, he looked at me like I had two heads.
Yet his hot hatch which he doesn't use sits in the garage, go figure.
There is plenty of claw back provisions if the Govt wants to use them, not wanting the media grief is the issue, but you guys run with it.

Unfortunately Dutton is going to get an easy run into office, which IMO is sad, because I don't think he will deserve it.

There's a reason McGowan jumped ship IMO and it will become obvious.

Recent posts in the Victorian newspapers, suggests Andrews is thinking of jumping ship, well fck me surprise, surprise.

At the moment, we are descending into a FW's, run by FW's scenario, but no one can say anything because the media will shut them down.

So we slowly slide into the quagmire the media make.

 

[sptrawler]

Absolutely agree.

There are processes now in Parliament for settling personal disputes, debates in both Houses should only be concerned with matters related to making life for the citizens better.

No the plan now is, to use parliament for a platform for personal agendas and compensation and if there is time to maybe run the fkng country. ? ? ? ?

 

[moXJO]

Van pulls the pin on the ilLiberal Party.

He wouldn't be the first pollie to pay the price for being a douchebag, nor would be be the first guy stitched up unfairly, for whatever reason.

I have no idea whether he is innocent or guilty and neither does anyone here.

So pending discovery of the truth, this is fair comment imo:

“Given the Liberal Party’s wholesale disregard for due process and natural justice in relation to allegations made against me, I write to resign my membership effective immediately.” Senator Van said in a statement late on Saturday.

“I resign also acknowledging the cruel irony of doing so amidst public discourse about the weaponisation of allegations and the role of the rule of law which has at its centre the presumption of innocence.

“I cannot remain a member of a party that tramples upon the very premise on which our justice system is predicated. This is a travesty of justice and I reiterate that I deny the allegations made against me.”

opinionem neutrum

I don't know if I believe the recent allegations against him. I think that was weaponised to take heat of the Higgins ordeal.

 

[moXJO]

There were a lot of anti government posters in one of the poorer areas of town. Basically saying all politicians are the same no matter which party.
Didn't affiliate with any group it seemed so I'm assuming it was anarchists.

 

[sptrawler]

There were a lot of anti government posters in one of the poorer areas of town. Basically saying all politicians are the same no matter which party.
Didn't affiliate with any group it seemed so I'm assuming it was anarchists.

I was just down the pub for happy hour, a lot of guys that haven't had anything to do with each other for the last 10 years i've been going there, where actually congregating together getting to know each other talking over issues.
What a hoot all this angst brought about by Canberra, is getting fragmented communities together, it will be interesting to see which way it all falls.
My guess more money from Canberra, what do we say, great ideas, pizz poor implementation.

 

[basilio]

I don't know if I believe the recent allegations against him. I think that was weaponised to take heat of the Higgins ordeal.

Really ?

1) Lidia Thorpe ? Ok, over the top. Ex Greens. Maybe sketchy ?

2) Amanda Stoker ? Ex Libs Minister. Solid Christian Right lawyer. Brought the issue up at the time. Had it recorded with witnesses and warned Van that if it ever happened again he was toast.

3) "X" ? A third person has made an allegation against Van privately to Peter Dutton. No names.

Could there be other accusations in the wings ? I suggest Peter Dutton decided that trying tough it out and demand some legal proof of the incidents would be just digging a rapidly deeper hole. Meanwhile other Lib Party women members have had their say as well.

David Van: former Liberal senator Amanda Stoker accuses colleague of ‘inappropriate’ touching

Following allegations made in the Senate by Lidia Thorpe, Stoker alleges Van twice squeezed her bottom at a social event in 2020

www.theguardian.com

As a female former Liberal MP, the party’s groupthink around sexual harassment dismays but does not surprise me | Catherine Cusack

Spending a week in federal parliament on the Brittany Higgins matter defies morality and logic. The Liberals have a woman problem

www.theguardian.com

 

[sptrawler]

I don't know if I believe the recent allegations against him. I think that was weaponised to take heat of the Higgins ordeal.

I was as angry as anyone about the issue, but after some time to think about the issue, we are really becoming a society that condemns on hearsay.
Which as @basilio says there is a weight of numbers, but does that make it the correct way to proceed, because if that route is taken it is very open to corruption. Several members of parliament could band together, accuse someone and then they are forced to resign.

It really is a sad state of affairs when our politicians carry so little public trust and esteem, that the worst is actually expected of them, how this situation will be fixed is going to be very interesting IMO.

The media really has made it difficult for common law to carry out their duty, as many of the public have made up their mind well before the evidence is tested and the quick of mind and foot can exploit that failing in the system.
As may have happened, who knows, but there will have to be a lot of legal guidelines developed, or some very hefty penalties applied to ensure people receive a fair trail.
We are very driven to correct wrongs and punish the perpetrator, but does that lend itself to exploitation and self interest, if we don't use a due process?

 

[mullokintyre]

The media really has made it difficult for common law to carry out their duty, as many of the public have made up their mind well before the evidence is tested and the quick of mind and foot can exploit that failing in the system.

This is not a new phenomenon.
I am old enough to remember the Lindy Chamberlain baby Azaria frenzy.
People I thought I knew well bought into all the conspiracy theories about Azaria meaning "sacrifice" in an ancient Summarian language, the strange religious cult the Chamberlains belonged to (they were seventh day adventists), the fact that Lindy Chamberlain did not cry on TV like a "normal" mother would, plus countless others.
And this was in the days before we had the internet, much less had social media.
I would have loved to go out and do a vox populi at the time to find out how many Australian had made up their mind about the family guilt, even before any evidence had been presented.
if this event had occurred today, she would have been mob lynched in social media.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

I was as angry as anyone about the issue, but after some time to think about the issue, we are really becoming a society that condemns on hearsay.
Which as @basilio says there is a weight of numbers, but does that make it the correct way to proceed, because if that route is taken it is very open to corruption. Several members of parliament could band together, accuse someone and then they are forced to resign.

It really is a sad state of affairs when our politicians carry so little public trust and esteem, that the worst is actually expected of them, how this situation will be fixed is going to be very interesting IMO.

The media really has made it difficult for common law to carry out their duty, as many of the public have made up their mind well before the evidence is tested and the quick of mind and foot can exploit that failing in the system.
As may have happened, who knows, but there will have to be a lot of legal guidelines developed, or some very hefty penalties applied to ensure people receive a fair trail.
We are very driven to correct wrongs and punish the perpetrator, but does that lend itself to exploitation and self interest, if we don't use a due process?

Because of one idiot juror, quite possibly motivated by media ramblings, the Lerhmann trial was aborted and will not be revived.

The matter hangs in the balance, and all we have are our own prejudices and biases to form an opinion.

Maybe we need judge only trials in these circumstances, it's apparent that our 'peers' can't be trusted to be impartial.

 

[sptrawler]

This is not a new phenomenon.
I am old enough to remember the Lindy Chamberlain baby Azaria frenzy.
People I thought I knew well bought into all the conspiracy theories about Azaria meaning "sacrifice" in an ancient Summarian language, the strange religious cult the Chamberlains belonged to (they were seventh day adventists), the fact that Lindy Chamberlain did not cry on TV like a "normal" mother would, plus countless others.
And this was in the days before we had the internet, much less had social media.
I would have loved to go out and do a vox populi at the time to find out how many Australian had made up their mind about the family guilt, even before any evidence had been presented.
if this event had occurred today, she would have been mob lynched in social media.
Mick

So true Mick, another good example of it in todays world is Djokovic, the MIL still rants and raves about the fact he didn't have a vaccination, she still can't get her head around the fact that as long as she had the vaccination it didn't matter.
Even now with the covid issue off the front pages and no one is wearing masks or having boosters, she still can't move on from the brain washing.

 

[sptrawler]

Because of one idiot juror, quite possibly motivated by media ramblings, the Lerhmann trial was aborted and will not be revived.

The matter hangs in the balance, and all we have are our own prejudices and biases to form an opinion.

Maybe we need judge only trials in these circumstances, it's apparent that our 'peers' can't be trusted to be impartial.

They have to come up with something to stop the weaponising of public opinion, otherwise it will escalate, now that both parties in the Lerhmann case look like getting payouts, how long before it just becomes another litigation roundabout?

 

[mullokintyre]

They have to come up with something to stop the weaponising of public opinion, otherwise it will escalate, now that both parties in the Lerhmann case look like getting payouts, how long before it just becomes another litigation roundabout?

Its no coincidence that so many of the members of nParliament are either ex lawyers, or studied Law before getting a job as as a union organiser, a political advisor to existing pollies or going onto the media.
Lawyers can smell money from a hundred miles away.
Mick

 

[Smurf1976]

Which as @basilio says there is a weight of numbers, but does that make it the correct way to proceed, because if that route is taken it is very open to corruption. Several members of parliament could band together, accuse someone and then they are forced to resign.

The most obvious use of which would be to wipe out any "problematic" minor party or independent.

Back Labor / Liberal policy, whoever's in government, "or else".

Minor parties and independents would be effectively neutered to the point we could end up seeing (for examples) The Greens forced to support mining in National Parks or One Nation forced to support mass immigration, ideas to which those parties are vehemently opposed, simply to avoid being destroyed by false allegations at them personally.

This situation isn't at all good for democracy no matter which side of the political fence you're on.

 

[moXJO]

I

Really ?

1) Lidia Thorpe ? Ok, over the top. Ex Greens. Maybe sketchy ?

2) Amanda Stoker ? Ex Libs Minister. Solid Christian Right lawyer. Brought the issue up at the time. Had it recorded with witnesses and warned Van that if it ever happened again he was toast.

3) "X" ? A third person has made an allegation against Van privately to Peter Dutton. No names.

Could there be other accusations in the wings ? I suggest Peter Dutton decided that trying tough it out and demand some legal proof of the incidents would be just digging a rapidly deeper hole. Meanwhile other Lib Party women members have had their say as well.

David Van: former Liberal senator Amanda Stoker accuses colleague of ‘inappropriate’ touching

Following allegations made in the Senate by Lidia Thorpe, Stoker alleges Van twice squeezed her bottom at a social event in 2020

www.theguardian.com

As a female former Liberal MP, the party’s groupthink around sexual harassment dismays but does not surprise me | Catherine Cusack

Spending a week in federal parliament on the Brittany Higgins matter defies morality and logic. The Liberals have a woman problem

www.theguardian.com

just meant Thorpe.
The others were older allegations.

 

[basilio]

I

just meant Thorpe.
The others were older allegations.

Not sure what you mean here Mo. Lidia Thorpe raised these allegations recently but the incident happened some years ago. I believe it was before the Amanda Stoker incident which she said happened in 2020. Amanada is only bringing them up again as a reference point to what Lidia said happened to her

We have no idea when the third incident occurred. We can only guess a third person contacted Peter Dutton after Lidia and Amanda and made similar allegations. As I said the possibility that other people will come forward is on the cards. But that becomes unlikely if Duttons action ensures a consequence.

 

[moXJO]

Not sure what you mean here Mo. Lidia Thorpe raised these allegations recently but the incident happened some years ago. I believe it was before the Amanda Stoker incident which she said happened in 2020. Amanada is only bringing them up again as a reference point to what Lidia said happened to her

We have no idea when the third incident occurred. We can only guess a third person contacted Peter Dutton after Lidia and Amanda and made similar allegations. As I said the possibility that other people will come forward is on the cards. But that becomes unlikely if Duttons action ensures a consequence.

I need to stop quick messaging.

I don't believe Thorpe to the extent she went. I do believe there may have been some kind of snide remark from van towards Thorpe .

I believe the other allegations from the other two though.