Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[noco]

Yes, I agree, but what do we do about those who don't cooperate and expect us to prove that they are not genuine ? The ones who throw away their ID's and won't tell us what country they are from.

That's probably a reason why they haven't been processed, it should be up to them to prove their case, not ours to disprove it.

Very true......I am with you all the way on this one.

The ones that throw away their IDs are economic refugees and are not fleeing persecution.

I say let them stay on Manus and Nauru until they decide they have had enough and go back to their home land....In many cases this has happened.

 

[luutzu]

Very true......I am with you all the way on this one.

The ones that throw away their IDs are economic refugees and are not fleeing persecution.

I say let them stay on Manus and Nauru until they decide they have had enough and go back to their home land....In many cases this has happened.

From what I know of the other group of refugees, refugees tend not to bring their ID and genuine document along with them.

So the passports you see being thrown away... those may very well be the fake ones that got them across borders.

What tend to happen is once they reach refugee camps, they then write home to relative or parents or whoever is still alive, and ask if the document can be sent over to the camps.

When you escape, you can't exactly go to the gov't and ask for new set of passports and IDs.. and you tend not to bring them along in case you get caught and they know who you are, who your family is and chase after them for money or other repercussion etc. etc.

Anyway... if we're interested, take a look at the refugees' country of origin and see if there's been a war there recently or still on going. There might be some correlation there.

And if Climate Change ever happen, where sea level rises and salt farmland and deltas, or turn somewhat arid places to desert and flood others... We'll definitely see economic migrants then... or as John Kerry and other greenies labeled them: Climate Change refugee. Though Kerry might have been a bit clever there and not put the blame on the freedom liberation stuff they're involved with that's causing refugees.

 

[SirRumpole]

What tend to happen is once they reach refugee camps, they then write home to relative or parents or whoever is still alive, and ask if the document can be sent over to the camps.

So surely they could do that from Nauru ?

Anyway... if we're interested, take a look at the refugees' country of origin and see if there's been a war there recently or still on going. There might be some correlation there.

We get a lot of refugees from Iran and there is no war going on there. Not a nice place to live but the same could be said of a lot of places.

 

[Tisme]

So surely they could do that from Nauru ?



We get a lot of refugees from Iran and there is no war going on there. Not a nice place to live but the same could be said of a lot of places.

It's rather interesting how my Iranian friends insist on calling themselves Persian?

 

[SirRumpole]

It's rather interesting how my Iranian friends insist on calling themselves Persian?

Rug salesmen are they ?

 

[Tisme]

Rug salesmen are they ?

I think they are astro astrophysicists with one of the technology arms of comm govt. I don't ask and they don't tell, but kids tend to communicate these things.

Astro_rugs for Sinbad?

 

[luutzu]

So surely they could do that from Nauru ?



We get a lot of refugees from Iran and there is no war going on there. Not a nice place to live but the same could be said of a lot of places.

Don't know. Just telling you what I knew from experiences and relatives.

Iran, the State formerly known as part of the Axis of Evil, is in negotiation with Australia to take back Iranian asylum seekers,
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/28495080/canberra-ready-to-deport-iranians/

In return for taking back failed asylum seekers, Australia would offer scholarships to Iranian university students.

The Government may even agree to turn down its strong travel warning advising Australians not to go to Iran.

Australia would also offer Iranian citizens work and holiday visas and Iran might be allowed to build consulates in Sydney and Melbourne.

woohoo... guess whose kids tend to have outstanding scholastic ability deserving of Australian visas and non-bribery of their parents to take back failed refugees?

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A lot is going wrong with the country when its citizens are worried about non-English speaking, poor and otherwise complete stranger in strange land taking their jobs and their resources. It's very close to being stuffed when most politicians, media, "journalists" and some "intellectuals" point the finger at desperate people and some if not most of us think... yeaaa... I can see how my kids can't get a job, why we're over there bombing their people...

Should watch Chomsky... he nail this issue in a few sentence, and does it without blinking because it's so obvious.

 

[sptrawler]

From what I know of the other group of refugees, refugees tend not to bring their ID and genuine document along with them.

So the passports you see being thrown away... those may very well be the fake ones that got them across borders.

What tend to happen is once they reach refugee camps, they then write home to relative or parents or whoever is still alive, and ask if the document can be sent over to the camps.

When you escape, you can't exactly go to the gov't and ask for new set of passports and IDs.. and you tend not to bring them along in case you get caught and they know who you are, who your family is and chase after them for money or other repercussion etc. etc.

Anyway... if we're interested, take a look at the refugees' country of origin and see if there's been a war there recently or still on going. There might be some correlation there.

And if Climate Change ever happen, where sea level rises and salt farmland and deltas, or turn somewhat arid places to desert and flood others... We'll definitely see economic migrants then... or as John Kerry and other greenies labeled them: Climate Change refugee. Though Kerry might have been a bit clever there and not put the blame on the freedom liberation stuff they're involved with that's causing refugees.

The only problem with those noble thoughts, Iuutzu, the refugees travel through many safe Countries without seeking refuge.
They are hell bent on reaching Countries, that have the most favourable welfare systems.

The problem with that is, a welfare system is like a co operative, it can only survive when people who take out have actually put in.

What we are now trying to fund is, those who have never put in and have no intention of putting in, have to be funded by those who are no longer working.

See how long that works for, before it implodes.

As technology improves and jobs disappear, someone has to pay for all this welfare, I don't personally care one way or another.
But you younger people really need to have a think, about sustainability.IMO

 

[qldfrog]

It's rather interesting how my Iranian friends insist on calling themselves Persian?

By culture, iranians are not arabs, nor do they use arab as a language if I remember well
and once you know arabs a bit more (Luutzu will have a field day here) you understand their behaviour;

Iran has a strong and magnificient culture aka greece, last 40y has been a disaster for Iran, complicated by a demographic time bomb due to the mollahs in power but they still have many educated people who are well well above the level of your average westerner, or aussie, not that it is a hard task to do!
PS I am not persian

 

[luutzu]

The only problem with those noble thoughts, Iuutzu, the refugees travel through many safe Countries without seeking refuge.
They are hell bent on reaching Countries, that have the most favourable welfare systems.

The problem with that is, a welfare system is like a co operative, it can only survive when people who take out have actually put in.

What we are now trying to fund is, those who have never put in and have no intention of putting in, have to be funded by those who are no longer working.

See how long that works for, before it implodes.

As technology improves and jobs disappear, someone has to pay for all this welfare, I don't personally care one way or another.
But you younger people really need to have a think, about sustainability.IMO

As my mother said, I live off gov't handouts but my children will repay it. I haven't made much contribution to Australia, but raised kids so that they will Four out of five ain't bad

I think perception is that refugees are burdensome, will remain so and keep draining our resources; whereas skilled migrants bring in skills and capital and won't rely or spend our resources at all.

Don't think that's true. Pot luck.

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I really think that welfare and medicare is a right, not some kind of state generosity and kindness as it's often made out to be.

Really tired of politicians living off of taxpayers largess, retiring on very generous "long service" pensions, being flown, housed, guarded, staffed while they work - or just fund raising... at taxpayers expense then turn around and say "we" can't be that generous, we can't spend this and that (as much as we'd like to, of course).

So we all have to make sacrifices. Heard the same stuff from the comrades in VN. The nation is poor, we all must play our parts, pay your taxes so that the motherland grow rich and strong... and so I can send my kids overseas to study while yours will have to put up with one of 3 school shifts per day since there's no money to build any school and you'll have to either fork up extra for private tuition or else your kids can't read.

----

 

[SirRumpole]

I really think that welfare and medicare is a right, not some kind of state generosity and kindness as it's often made out to be.

Medicare yes, because its a service available to everyone in return for taxes paid.

Welfare is a privilege paid to those who generally can't afford to pay taxes and so is being paid by someone elses taxes and therefore should be earned in another way; eg work for the dole.

We just can't afford to continually pay some people USB for the rest of their lives as some people think they are entitled to.

 

[luutzu]

Medicare yes, because its a service available to everyone in return for taxes paid.

Welfare is a privilege paid to those who generally can't afford to pay taxes and so is being paid by someone elses taxes and therefore should be earned in another way; eg work for the dole.

We just can't afford to continually pay some people USB for the rest of their lives as some people think they are entitled to.

Welfare cheques can't be a privilege. Yes we should discourage dependence on it, definitely punish cheats and other abuses... but to keep people from going homeless, not have food on the table when times are tough... that's not why we pay taxes.

Just as we owe it to the ATO to pay our taxes, the gov't owe it to us to take care of those among us who needs it regardless of whether or not they have paid their fair share.

It's not only about doing what is right by our citizens, it's what prevents social collapse and prevented revolutions.

If we think corporate welfare is necessary to prevent economic crisis etc., take away social welfare and you'll have bigger troubles brewing.

 

[SirRumpole]

Are these guys persecuted or simply economic "refugees" ?

Make up your own minds.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...-start-businesses-could-expand-report/6881928

 

[pixel]

A telling letter from Germany
While Snopes tags it "unproven", I have received numerous similar reports first-hand from German friends.

A Czech Female Physician in Munich, Germany sends a message to the world .

Yesterday, at the hospital we had a meeting about how the situation here and at the other Munich hospitals is unsustainable. Clinics cannot handle emergencies, so they are starting to send everything to the hospitals.

Many Muslims are refusing treatment by female staff and, we, women, are refusing to go among those animals, especially from Africa. Relations between the staff and migrants are going from bad to worse. Since last weekend, migrants going to the hospitals must be accompanied by police with K-9 units.

Many migrants have AIDS, syphilis, open TB and many exotic diseases that we, in Europe, do not know how to treat them. If they receive a prescription in the pharmacy, they learn they have to pay cash. This leads to unbelievable outbursts, especially when it is about drugs for the children. They abandon the children with pharmacy staff with the words: “So, cure them here yourselves!” So the police are not just guarding the clinics and hospitals, but also large pharmacies.

Truly we said openly: Where are all those who had welcomed in front of TV cameras, with signs at train stations?! Yes, for now, the border has been closed, but a million of them are already here and we will definitely not be able to get rid of them.

Until now, the number of unemployed in Germany was 2.2 million. Now it will be at least 3.5 million. Most of these people are completely unemployable. A bare minimum of them have any education. What is more, their women usually do not work at all. I estimate that one in ten is pregnant. Hundreds of thousands of them have brought along infants and little kids under six, many emaciated and neglected. If this continues and German re-opens its borders, I’m going home to the Czech Republic. Nobody can keep me here in this situation, not even double the salary than at home. I went to Germany, not to Africa or the Middle East.

Even the professor who heads our department told us how sad it makes him to see the cleaning woman, who for 800 Euros cleans every day for years, and then meets young men in the hallways who just wait with their hand outstretched, want everything for free, and when they don’t get it they throw a fit.

I really don’t need this! But I’m afraid that if I return, that at some point it will be the same in the Czech Republic. If the Germans, with their nature cannot handle this, there in Czechia it would be total chaos. Nobody who has not come in contact with them has no idea what kind of animals they are, especially the ones from Africa, and how Muslims act superior to our staff, regarding their religious accommodation.

For now, the local hospital staff has not come down with the diseases they brought here, but, with so many hundreds of patients every day – this is just a question of time.

In a hospital near the Rhine, migrants attacked the staff with knives after they had handed over an 8-month-old on the brink of death, which they had dragged across half of Europe for three months. The child died in two days, despite having received top care at one of the best pediatric clinics in Germany. The physician had to undergo surgery and two nurses are laid up in the ICU. Nobody has been punished.

The local press is forbidden to write about it, so we know about it through email. What would have happened to a German if he had stabbed a doctor and nurses with a knife? Or if he had flung his own syphilis-infected urine into a nurse’s face and so threatened her with infection? At a minimum he’d go straight to jail and later to court. With these people – so far, nothing has happened.

And so I ask, where are all those greeters and receivers from the train stations? Sitting pretty at home, enjoying their non-profits and looking forward to more trains and their next batch of cash from acting like greeters at the stations. If it were up to me I would round up all these greeters and bring them here first to our hospital’s emergency ward, as attendants. Then, into one building with the migrants so they can look after them there themselves, without armed police, without police dogs who today are in every hospital here in Bavaria, and without medical help.

 

[luutzu]

A telling letter from Germany
While Snopes tags it "unproven", I have received numerous similar reports first-hand from German friends.

There's a lot of contradiction in that story. Assuming it's true anyway.

So the lady is from the Czech Republic working in Germany... better pay and condition right? Then the moment those "animals" who are sick and disease ridden comes to the hospital where she works, are rude and violent towards the staff... the moment that happen she wanted to leave the country for a better one, just the one she thought to return to ain't better so maybe she'd stay.

Anyway... I'm sure the "greeters" at the stations and every one else would not tolerate violent and otherwise criminal behaviour. Grieving for the lost of your child or stress and fear and anger from walking 3 months on foot etc. is no excuse either. So let the law enforcement agencies deal with such criminal behaviour...

To use the behaviour of a few as representative of the rest just doesn't sound right. And she's supposed to be a physician... doctor, healer. I wouldn't trust any one who call another human being animals like that.

 

[pixel]

There's a lot of contradiction in that story. Assuming it's true anyway.

It is noble of you to jump to the true refugees' defense, luutzu; and like you, I feel sympathy for the women and children caught up in the oppression and murder in their homelands. However, my sympathy is taxed beyond its limit when I see able-bodied young men joining the dole queues, demanding not only compassion, but specific top-shelf goods, and going on the rampage if their demands aren't met.

Police statistics show a significant increase of petty theft, intimidation, and fighting in certain areas. Join the dots.

Sadly, it's not merely a small minority. There are daily fights between migrants from different ethnic backgrounds against each other, against aid workers, whom they accuse of being disrespectful or offering goods not deemed satisfactory. The stories go on and on, but the silence in the media is deafening...

 

[luutzu]

It is noble of you to jump to the true refugees' defense, luutzu; and like you, I feel sympathy for the women and children caught up in the oppression and murder in their homelands. However, my sympathy is taxed beyond its limit when I see able-bodied young men joining the dole queues, demanding not only compassion, but specific top-shelf goods, and going on the rampage if their demands aren't met.

Police statistics show a significant increase of petty theft, intimidation, and fighting in certain areas. Join the dots.

Sadly, it's not merely a small minority. There are daily fights between migrants from different ethnic backgrounds against each other, against aid workers, whom they accuse of being disrespectful or offering goods not deemed satisfactory. The stories go on and on, but the silence in the media is deafening...

No one's defending thuggery or crimes.

Just i'm not so sure about the statistics.

And not defending abled-body young men seeking handouts... but what do we expect them to be doing when they first got to a foreign country? Not even sure if they're allowed to work until they're processed. They're refugees at the moment, seeking handouts... what are we expecting from them right now?

Can't speak for others but on days I don't sleep properly I tend to be cranky and have short fuses... maybe others are more gentle and having trekked all those months, maybe dreaming of open arms and warm shelter tey're not getting, some young ones might do what young idiots do in such states. Again, no excuse for crimes and theft and assault, but let the law deal with them.

---

Giving too much credit to the media.
Only one I saw was tripping over an elderly refugee fleeing, then kicking another kid... but most in the media, particularly the mainstream ones, they aren't exactly on the side of refugees.

 

[drsmith]

Can't speak for others but on days I don't sleep properly I tend to be cranky and have short fuses....

The vast majority of people have days like that. How individuals respond to that is a test of character and it's a failure then the result is abuse towards others.

There's a growing inevitability that at some point, Europe is going to have to close its borders as a whole to this wave of disorganised migration.

http://news.yahoo.com/huge-inflow-m...NG9yBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM3BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--#

 

[luutzu]

The vast majority of people have days like that. How individuals respond to that is a test of character and it's a failure then the result is abuse towards others.

There's a growing inevitability that at some point, Europe is going to have to close its borders as a whole to this wave of disorganised migration.

http://news.yahoo.com/huge-inflow-m...NG9yBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM3BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--#

When's the last time the vast majority of us got on a crowded leaky boat, cross the Agean seas then by foot here and bus there, a train now and then for some 3 months.. .carrying all we ever own in a couple bags, child and family and sleep where we can on the bench or the pavement... When's the last time you did that?

When did we become inspector Javert? I broke a window pane. You broke into a house! My sister's child was close to death, she was starving... and you'll starve again if you don't follow the letter of the law, you dirty filth!

He's the bad guy right?

btw, those miserable starving, thieving dirty plebs were French. Guess there's some Muslim and Arab blood in them to do things like that.

 

[drsmith]

When's the last time the vast majority of us got on a crowded leaky boat, cross the Agean seas then by foot here and bus there, a train now and then for some 3 months.. .carrying all we ever own in a couple bags, child and family and sleep where we can on the bench or the pavement... When's the last time you did that?

That justifies the behaviour as outlined in Pixel's post which in reference to your response, you've assumed to be true ?

No it doesn't.