Asylum immigrants - Green Light

luutzu said:

It was the commodity boom and those "waste" that kept Australia out of the Great Recession.

Gov't "waste" like building things create jobs noco.

How's cutting mining tax and carbon tax and hoping those cuts will mean more money for corporation and with more money they'll keep hiring people; with carbon tax gone all Australians will get cheaper power bills... how's that going?

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Again, we seem to be drifting from the topic at hand.

drsmith said:

Again, we seem to be drifting from the topic at hand.

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Didn't the refugees cause the bankers and fund managers to take their eyes off the ball and crash the world economy? That and wasting gov't and taxpayers $11 billion, causing a big massive dent in the couple trillion or so that was also lost?

Serious though... the GFC did result in a lot of refugees all over the world. Soon after it, there were revolutions in a few ME countries - price of bread and food sky rocketed; then wars; In countries without wars, laid offs and pensioners seeing their savings either lost or drastically reduced... fun for all the world. So much so they're doing it again.

luutzu said:

Didn't the refugees cause the bankers and fund managers to take their eyes off the ball and crash the world economy? That and wasting gov't and taxpayers $11 billion, causing a big massive dent in the couple trillion or so that was also lost?

Serious though... the GFC did result in a lot of refugees all over the world. Soon after it, there were revolutions in a few ME countries - price of bread and food sky rocketed; then wars; In countries without wars, laid offs and pensioners seeing their savings either lost or drastically reduced... fun for all the world. So much so they're doing it again.

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Again, little to do with the topic at hand.

Australia has a humanitarian component to it's immigration intake specifically for those fleeing persecution. Those who argue for more should argue within that framework and not through encouraging people smuggling.

drsmith said:

Again, little to do with the topic at hand.

Australia has a humanitarian component to it's immigration intake specifically for those fleeing persecution. Those who argue for more should argue within that framework and not through encouraging people smuggling.

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Arabs, bad;
Refugees, bad;
Arab refugees, really bad;
Christian Arab refugees, less bad but still bad;

back on topic now?

luutzu said:

Arabs, bad;
Refugees, bad;
Arab refugees, really bad;
Christian Arab refugees, less bad but still bad;

back on topic now?

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No.

We don't have to compromise our sovereignty as a nation in order to accept refugees.

luutzu said:

It was the commodity boom and those "waste" that kept Australia out of the Great Recession.

Gov't "waste" like building things create jobs noco.

How's cutting mining tax and carbon tax and hoping those cuts will mean more money for corporation and with more money they'll keep hiring people; with carbon tax gone all Australians will get cheaper power bills... how's that going?

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Whilst I am aware this is off topic, I will nevertheless give you my answer again.

You don't seem to get, do you?

I am not denying the fact that there was a GFC throughout the world with Australia the least affected and that there was a necessity to stimulate the economy but not to the extravagance the Labor party took us into...
Most of us know the history of Labor's poor economic management and to send out those "DUDD" $900 cheques to wealthy people, dead people and people overseas was just plain crazy...Most of the money went into gambling or the purchase of Chinese manufactured goods......Now it all has to be paid back in some form or another.

THE MINING TAX

The worlds greatest treasurer, Wayne Swan, introduced the mining tax which cost heaps to administer and produced no tax.....Tax that Swannie spent before he even received it...Another dud Labor idea.

THE CARBON DIOXIDE TAX

The elimination of the carbon tax did more than just reduce domestic power bills, it also reduced many business cost, consequently these companies were able to employ more people, something you were so adamant about.

And a lot of people, perhaps including yourself, did not realize that 10% of the carbon dioxide tax went to the UN Climate Change committee.

noco said:

.Most of the money went into gambling or the purchase of Chinese manufactured goods....

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I thought the Chinese were your great mates,or have you joined the CFMEU and gone racist ?

SirRumpole said:

I thought the Chinese were your great mates,or have you joined the CFMEU and gone racist ?

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Now Rumpy, how did you work that out or was just another thought bubble again?

I think I would join the Fabians before I joined the CFMEU.........ROFL.

The Fabians might just be slightly the lessor of two evils.

:topic

noco said:

Whilst I am aware this is off topic, I will nevertheless give you my answer again.

You don't seem to get, do you?

I am not denying the fact that there was a GFC throughout the world with Australia the least affected and that there was a necessity to stimulate the economy but not to the extravagance the Labor party took us into...
Most of us know the history of Labor's poor economic management and to send out those "DUDD" $900 cheques to wealthy people, dead people and people overseas was just plain crazy...Most of the money went into gambling or the purchase of Chinese manufactured goods......Now it all has to be paid back in some form or another.

THE MINING TAX

The worlds greatest treasurer, Wayne Swan, introduced the mining tax which cost heaps to administer and produced no tax.....Tax that Swannie spent before he even received it...Another dud Labor idea.

THE CARBON DIOXIDE TAX

The elimination of the carbon tax did more than just reduce domestic power bills, it also reduced many business cost, consequently these companies were able to employ more people, something you were so adamant about.

And a lot of people, perhaps including yourself, did not realize that 10% of the carbon dioxide tax went to the UN Climate Change committee.

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Dr Evil will give me a hard time again... but anyway.

Heard Keynes' great idea to get countries out of a recession was for the gov't to spend money. They could spend it hiring people to dig up sand at beaches and bury bottles or wasting it again hiring people to dig it up and clean it off etc. As long as gov't spend money, it goes into the pocket of people, people will get taxed from those income but will spend the rest, their spending stimulate demand in other sector, those sector hire people and they all get taxed and the gov't will get their money back multiple times and out of the recession/depression.

Since we're smarter than just burying bottles, we build roads, expand freeways, insulate houses, buy back clunkers, give some bonuses etc. Not saying it was all planned well or executed well, and yes there were wastage and deaths from the insulation not being supervised or regulated properly... But as I've said elsewhere before, a few economists I've heard have said Australia got thru the GFC due to such policies and the commodity boom.

Now if the superprofit was taxed, and from memory the coupe happen soon after it was passed but not yet implemented... who knows, we might be a bit better off. Instead we got diddly and the miners still fire people any way.

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Yes, carbon tax was not just electricity bills... it would have put a cost on polluting the air we all breathe. That's a good thing because air shouldn't be freely polluted right? A cost will encourage less reliance on old fossil fuel, would encourage the search and investment into alternative and cleaner sources of fuel etc. etc.

Don't know what happen to the electricity but the bills I've been paying have remain the same or higher over pass few years.

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If Abbott has any sense, he would have fast tracked a few infrastructure projects, manufacturing contracts for trains or patrol vessels to turn back the boats or something... maybe a few thousand orange rafts just in case. Instead nothing of note was really done past couple years and how many thousands of mine workers and factory workers were fired and there's no spending and investment to stimulate any kind of activity.

Got record low interest rates, literally borrowing money for free for a decade if we want to... and we sit around looking at ways to cut spending, join foreign adventures, jack up datacentres to collect stuff.

Anyway, everything that costs money can be call spending and waste... just sometime it might also be call investments with enormous return potentials too.

But ey, make the country broke enough and you can sell and privatise public assets with little protests at all. If i'm really rich and as civic minded as all billionaires are, I'd think it's a good idea that I buy cash cows and monopolies too.

drsmith said:

No.

We don't have to compromise our sovereignty as a nation in order to accept refugees.

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No body is asking that we do.

People and society changes. Just like how descendants of the First Fleet and the other fleets from Britain and the UK afterwards do not consider themselves British but Australian - complete with beer guts, Bonds singlets, bogan accents, freckles and all true blue aussie blood... people of other countries and other races will consider themselves Australian too.

Why would anyone want to, if they can, turn Australia into where they came from? For refugees it's a warzone where they came from... it's really corrupt, the poor have no hope of rising anywhere but to Heaven. So to think they would come here and want to make it like back home is really thinking people would go against their own self-interests and against some sort of developed, higher sense of faculty like reason and gratitude and empathy.

luutzu said:

Why would anyone want to, if they can, turn Australia into where they came from?

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It's part of the Muslim religion to try and convert others to their cause or kill them. Sure that's an extremist view, but while it's written in the book some will try to do it.

That's why there have been calls to impose Sharia law in Australia. It was not going to happen but that doesn't stop some people from trying. It will happen again when the Muslim population gets to a certain level, if we let it.

That story on the use of drones to assassinate people around the world is horrific.

Its not simply the brutal banality of the process. The seriously horrific part is the the number of mistakes made, wrong intelligence and the fact that anyone else who is killed is simply labelled as a terrorist to justify their killings.

What would be the uproar in the West if a single prominent government/military official was killed by a drone attack from another country ?

luutzu said:

No body is asking that we do.

People and society changes. Just like how descendants of the First Fleet and the other fleets from Britain and the UK afterwards do not consider themselves British but Australian - complete with beer guts, Bonds singlets, bogan accents, freckles and all true blue aussie blood... people of other countries and other races will consider themselves Australian too.

Why would anyone want to, if they can, turn Australia into where they came from? For refugees it's a warzone where they came from... it's really corrupt, the poor have no hope of rising anywhere but to Heaven. So to think they would come here and want to make it like back home is really thinking people would go against their own self-interests and against some sort of developed, higher sense of faculty like reason and gratitude and empathy.

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Again, little to do with the topic at hand.

When are you going to recognise that we have a humanitarian component to our immigration program to assist those fleeing persecution and that the services of illegal people smuggling operations are neither required or represent a desired alternative ?

SirRumpole said:

It's part of the Muslim religion to try and convert others to their cause or kill them. Sure that's an extremist view, but while it's written in the book some will try to do it.

That's why there have been calls to impose Sharia law in Australia. It was not going to happen but that doesn't stop some people from trying. It will happen again when the Muslim population gets to a certain level, if we let it.

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Don't know, if i was handsome enough back in the days or those Catholic girls in the Youth Group were into the rugged manly type, I might have been a Christian by now


All religion wrote and preach stuff like that. Judaism, Christianity, Islam... same God, as in the exact same Being... just different Prophet... they all see themselves as the one true whatever and all others have not seen the light, will need to be civilised and brought back to God/Allah/Yahweh [?]

Take Judaism as currently practised by the state of Israel. There's a bunch of crazy Jewish extremist who believe the land of Israel as promised to them by God stretches from the Jordan River to the Med.Sea (it's on their flag)... this includes Jordan, the West Bank and Egyptian Sinai peninsula. Egypt beat it out of Sinai back in the 1967 war [?], Jordan is still around but according to them, let's take the West Bank then tommorow the world - as God promised.

Take Christian colonisation of the Americas and practically everywhere else since the 16th century... God and country (and gold and silk and tea and coffee and oil and land...).

Every country and culture want to dominate, question is can they? With what army?

basilio said:

That story on the use of drones to assassinate people around the world is horrific.

Its not simply the brutal banality of the process. The seriously horrific part is the the number of mistakes made, wrong intelligence and the fact that anyone else who is killed is simply labelled as a terrorist to justify their killings.

What would be the uproar in the West if a single prominent government/military official was killed by a drone attack from another country ?

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It's insane.

Some strikes don't even need intelligence or have any cause - just the movement or gathering or some "signature" that seem suspicious and booom... the group and everyone around them are considered terrorist until they can prove otherwise - and I'm not making that up.

But it's done because no one else can do anything about it... so they tells us.

Heard some debate a while back about China being militarily weak and inexperience since they haven't been at war themselves for four decades. Some guy was saying... and neither has the West because the kind of war the West has been involved with are against weak enemies, enemies without comparable air force or naval capabilities, or Nukes.

The US tend to forget that when WW2 broke out, their armed forces were still using tools and tactics from WW1, trained with wooden rifles and got some breathing room because of the two oceans kept the other empires at each other.

Hubris.

drsmith said:

Again, little to do with the topic at hand.

When are you going to recognise that we have a humanitarian component to our immigration program to assist those fleeing persecution and that the services of illegal people smuggling operations are neither required or represent a desired alternative ?

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If people smugglers don't get refugees out, how do you think the refugees could get out of their country?

Not everyone have a boat, or could afford an entire boat. Refugees can't fake documents or know who to bribe to get through their border security... etc. etc. So the services of people smugglers are required... that why they're operating.

Again, not advocating open border or open arms policies. Just more thought and more attention to our international obligations.

luutzu said:

If people smugglers don't get refugees out, how do you think the refugees could get out of their country?

.

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So why do we have refugees from Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan in Australia ? Those countries are on the other side of the world. How many safe countries in between ?

SirRumpole said:

So why do we have refugees from Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan in Australia ? Those countries are on the other side of the world.

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Preparing the way for the rest of them, including our next door neighbours?

SirRumpole said:

So why do we have refugees from Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan in Australia ? Those countries are on the other side of the world. How many safe countries in between ?

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I'm just guessing, but they might have used people smugglers or some might know other parts of the border that's not guarded as well. Depends on the country and its state of affairs... most borders are partrolled, and those not would have been too dangerous.

Again, I've never said welcome everyone and forget about border protection... all am saying is we're obligated to see if they are genuine refugees or not; if they are, what can we do about it. Does our budget and demographic intakes permit us to take them in, or do we ask other states or the UN etc. etc.

There are things that can be done that's right by us and not so "tough". It's very easy to not give a hoot about people and do what is politically popular; very tough to do what's right. But since manliness is about treating others like trash, why not.

luutzu said:

I

Again, I've never said welcome everyone and forget about border protection... all am saying is we're obligated to see if they are genuine refugees or not; if they are, what can we do about it. Does our budget and demographic intakes permit us to take them in, or do we ask other states or the UN etc. etc.

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Yes, I agree, but what do we do about those who don't cooperate and expect us to prove that they are not genuine ? The ones who throw away their ID's and won't tell us what country they are from.

That's probably a reason why they haven't been processed, it should be up to them to prove their case, not ours to disprove it.