Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[bunyip]

A responsible government should make decisions on the basis of common sense and in the best interests of the country it governs.
And common sense combined with the power of observation should make them aware that Muslims are causing serious problems in every single country in which they’ve gained a foothold, and will do the same here and in fact have already started.
Spain, Denmark, Germany, Britain, France, Holland, and numerous other countries are now regretting their decision to allow mass immigration from Islamic countries.
Common sense should also tell anyone with the power to think clearly that we just cannot afford the immense cost of adopting an open borders policy on the grounds of humanity and compassion. We tried it for six years under the Labor/Greens alliance and it was a total disaster.
The Abbot government knows this and has formulated it’s asylum seeker policies accordingly.
The Greens are too stupid to learn from the disastrous asylum seeker policies they helped Labor to impose on our country for six long years. So their policy is simply to give us more of the same – except that next time around the cost would make Rudd’s 12 billion dollar mistake look like pocket money.
Labor is a mixed bag on this issue. On the one hand we have Labor’s shadow immigration minister, Richard Marles, acknowledging that the LNP’s strategy has been very effective in stopping the boats, and he’s hinted that Labor would adopt a similar policy if elected. On the other hand we have buffoon Bill Shorten and other Labor heavies shooting Marles down by saying that Labor would not adopt a ‘turn back the boats’ policy.

 

[luutzu]

A responsible government should make decisions on the basis of common sense and in the best interests of the country it governs.
And common sense combined with the power of observation should make them aware that Muslims are causing serious problems in every single country in which they’ve gained a foothold, and will do the same here and in fact have already started.
Spain, Denmark, Germany, Britain, France, Holland, and numerous other countries are now regretting their decision to allow mass immigration from Islamic countries.
Common sense should also tell anyone with the power to think clearly that we just cannot afford the immense cost of adopting an open borders policy on the grounds of humanity and compassion. We tried it for six years under the Labor/Greens alliance and it was a total disaster.
The Abbot government knows this and has formulated it’s asylum seeker policies accordingly.
The Greens are too stupid to learn from the disastrous asylum seeker policies they helped Labor to impose on our country for six long years. So their policy is simply to give us more of the same – except that next time around the cost would make Rudd’s 12 billion dollar mistake look like pocket money.
Labor is a mixed bag on this issue. On the one hand we have Labor’s shadow immigration minister, Richard Marles, acknowledging that the LNP’s strategy has been very effective in stopping the boats, and he’s hinted that Labor would adopt a similar policy if elected. On the other hand we have buffoon Bill Shorten and other Labor heavies shooting Marles down by saying that Labor would not adopt a ‘turn back the boats’ policy.

No one is advocating "open borders", or take all the refugees of the world.

So to you, non-Muslim refugees are OK then? Or none at all?

Why do you think most refugees nowadays, those arriving/trying to arrive to Australia, Europe... most are Muslims?

Beside them infiltrating and planning on world domination by stealth as has been suggested... maybe there's been endless wars in the region since... since 2001?

Afghanistan, Iraq, then soon Libya, Egypt, Syria... I'm sure I've missed a few countries in the region.

Anyway, I've discussed before... a "tough" refugee policy is not going to work, has not work.
How tough can we be to refugees without committing war crimes?

I'm pretty sure they've had it much much tougher...

I don't know what the solution is, but it need more thinking than chest thumping, we're tough and we'll turn back the boats, the boats are turning, the boat has been turn, turning the boats back works.

That's like solving the homelessness issue by going on the street at night and beat up a few homeless people - you're not going to solve homelessness are you?

 

[noco]

With all these... dislikes [?] for the Muslims, the Fabians, the socialist communists unionist laborites... how do you make time to tell the neighbours kids to get off your lawn noco?

What a weak reply...you really are desperate......Play the ball...not the man.

You my friend are another one who only knows one reply and that is character assassination......an attempt to discredit when you don't have the answers.....sarcasm is the lowest form of wit from the uneducated.

 

[noco]

I'm pretty sure asylum seekers, refugees, only have other people's generosity and sympathy to bargain with.

If you don't make asylum policies based on grounds of humanity and compassion, what do you make them on? Money? They got none - if they do have money, they'd fly here as immigrants, not by boat.

So where did they get the money, the cost of their passports, visas and air fares to get to Indonesia.

Then having arrived and accepted by Indonesia, they then may have waited for 2,3,4 or 5 months to arrange a passage with a people smugglers aided by Indonesian officials at $10,000 per head....Where did they stay in Indonesia and who fed them?

They could have flown to Australia for almost the same price that cost them to fly to Indonesia.

So you say they do not have money?.....they are economic refugees.

 

[noco]

Can you point to any public statement by the Labor party to that effect ?

I heard Bill Shorten say on some TV news program..

Read post #3001.....another ASF poster heard the same thing......Bill Shorten and Richard Marles ( the shadow immigration Minister) could not agree on a policy....Marles said Labor would turn back the boats....Shorten said no we won't turn back the boats......Labor seems to be all over the place with their policy on immigration.

So that is why I said, I hope Shorten is forced into making a commitment one way of the other.

 

[noco]

No one is advocating "open borders", or take all the refugees of the world.

So to you, non-Muslim refugees are OK then? Or none at all?

Why do you think most refugees nowadays, those arriving/trying to arrive to Australia, Europe... most are Muslims?

Beside them infiltrating and planning on world domination by stealth as has been suggested... maybe there's been endless wars in the region since... since 2001?

Afghanistan, Iraq, then soon Libya, Egypt, Syria... I'm sure I've missed a few countries in the region.

Anyway, I've discussed before... a "tough" refugee policy is not going to work, has not work.
How tough can we be to refugees without committing war crimes?

I'm pretty sure they've had it much much tougher...

I don't know what the solution is, but it need more thinking than chest thumping, we're tough and we'll turn back the boats, the boats are turning, the boat has been turn, turning the boats back works.

That's like solving the homelessness issue by going on the street at night and beat up a few homeless people - you're not going to solve homelessness are you?

Muslims have just one book to follow...that is the Koran.

The problem is there are at least 3 major factions in the Muslim World , the Sunnies, the Sheites and the Kurds and they all have different interpretations on how to exercise the teachings...As a result they only know one way to talk to each other and that is with the gun.

So if they have these internal problems why do they seek Western World refuge?

In Syria, 200,000 people have died....Muslims fighting Muslims...the badies fighting the badies.

If they want to fight amongst themselves, I say let them until the strongest group dominates.....It is their problem and therefore we should stay out of it unless it affects out community, which, by the way is staring to happen now.

 

[banco]

Muslims have just one book to follow...that is the Koran.

The problem is there are at least 3 major factions in the Muslim World , the Sunnies, the Sheites and the Kurds and they all have different interpretations on how to exercise the teachings...As a result they only know one way to talk to each other and that is with the gun.

So if they have these internal problems why do they seek Western World refuge?

In Syria, 200,000 people have died....Muslims fighting Muslims...the badies fighting the badies.

If they want to fight amongst themselves, I say let them until the strongest group dominates.....It is their problem and therefore we should stay out of it unless it affects out community, which, by the way is staring to happen now.

Kurds are Sunnis.

 

[bunyip]

No one is advocating "open borders", or take all the refugees of the world.

So to you, non-Muslim refugees are OK then? Or none at all?

Why do you think most refugees nowadays, those arriving/trying to arrive to Australia, Europe... most are Muslims?

Beside them infiltrating and planning on world domination by stealth as has been suggested... maybe there's been endless wars in the region since... since 2001?

Afghanistan, Iraq, then soon Libya, Egypt, Syria... I'm sure I've missed a few countries in the region.

Anyway, I've discussed before... a "tough" refugee policy is not going to work, has not work.
How tough can we be to refugees without committing war crimes?

I'm pretty sure they've had it much much tougher...

I don't know what the solution is, but it need more thinking than chest thumping, we're tough and we'll turn back the boats, the boats are turning, the boat has been turn, turning the boats back works.

That's like solving the homelessness issue by going on the street at night and beat up a few homeless people - you're not going to solve homelessness are you?

I’ve made my views plain enough – go back and read my posts if you want any more info on what I think.

I’ve yet to see anyone put forward a rational suggestion or a viable plan on how we could afford to take the unlimited numbers of immigrants who would come here illegally if we went back to the disastrous policies we saw during six years of Labor/Greens government.
And I’ve yet to see anyone put forward a rational argument to show that we have an obligation to provide solutions to people who want to leave troubled countries.
They are not our problem and we have no obligation to make them our problem by inviting them into our country and taking responsibility for them. We tried that for six years under the Labor/Greens alliance.....and we all know how that worked out!

 

[luutzu]

So where did they get the money, the cost of their passports, visas and air fares to get to Indonesia.

Then having arrived and accepted by Indonesia, they then may have waited for 2,3,4 or 5 months to arrange a passage with a people smugglers aided by Indonesian officials at $10,000 per head....Where did they stay in Indonesia and who fed them?

They could have flown to Australia for almost the same price that cost them to fly to Indonesia.

So you say they do not have money?.....they are economic refugees.

How do you know they're not persecuted and are genuine refugees who happen to have some money or managed to sell everything to get that far?

Those refugees without money to afford a boat ride, and there are plenty of them, get stuck back and try to not get persecuted.

Are people not refugee if they have $10 000?

 

[luutzu]

I’ve made my views plain enough – go back and read my posts if you want any more info on what I think.

I’ve yet to see anyone put forward a rational suggestion or a viable plan on how we could afford to take the unlimited numbers of immigrants who would come here illegally if we went back to the disastrous policies we saw during six years of Labor/Greens government.
And I’ve yet to see anyone put forward a rational argument to show that we have an obligation to provide solutions to people who want to leave troubled countries.
They are not our problem and we have no obligation to make them our problem by inviting them into our country and taking responsibility for them. We tried that for six years under the Labor/Greens alliance.....and we all know how that worked out!

Helping those in need seems plenty rational to me.

Equating "can't help everyone" as "won't help anyone" sounds wrong to me.

 

[luutzu]

Muslims have just one book to follow...that is the Koran.

The problem is there are at least 3 major factions in the Muslim World , the Sunnies, the Sheites and the Kurds and they all have different interpretations on how to exercise the teachings...As a result they only know one way to talk to each other and that is with the gun.

So if they have these internal problems why do they seek Western World refuge?

In Syria, 200,000 people have died....Muslims fighting Muslims...the badies fighting the badies.

If they want to fight amongst themselves, I say let them until the strongest group dominates.....It is their problem and therefore we should stay out of it unless it affects out community, which, by the way is staring to happen now.

The ones fighting are back there doing the fighting. The civilians who get caught in the cross fires are the ones fleeing - seeking refuge.

 

[noco]

Kurds are Sunnis.

So why the different names?

So was Saddam Husein a Sunnis or a Sheite?

 

[noco]

The ones fighting are back there doing the fighting. The civilians who get caught in the cross fires are the ones fleeing - seeking refuge.

So the ones who are fleeing, are they Summis or Sheites?

 

[noco]

How do you know they're not persecuted and are genuine refugees who happen to have some money or managed to sell everything to get that far?

Those refugees without money to afford a boat ride, and there are plenty of them, get stuck back and try to not get persecuted.

Are people not refugee if they have $10 000?

But you said in your previous post if they had money they would fly to Australia and not come by boat and now you have contradicted yourself.

It would have been cheaper to fly direct to Australia instead of paying people smugglers $10,000.

As far as I am concerned they are just bloody queue jumpers to the detriment of genuine refugees.

 

[bunyip]

Helping those in need seems plenty rational to me.

Explain why we should help people at the expense of our own people in our own country who desperately need help.
If you're so keen to help people then there's unlimited scope for your humane and compassionate spirit right here in Australia.
How many homeless people have you taken in to live under your roof? Have you taken a tramp into a cafe recently and bought him a meal?
Are you in any community service clubs or volunteer organizations like SES or volunteer fire fighters?
Have you been involved with 'Meals on Wheels' or any of the other wonderful organizations that help our elderly people, but struggle to find enough funds to do so?

Your time is limited due to work commitments? OK, but you still have two days a week off don't you? That gives you plenty of time to devote a few hours each week to helping someone less fortunate than yourself.

Do you donate to any of the above organizations?
Am I correct in thinking that you or your family came here as refugees from Vietnam? If that's the case, do you feel any obligation to Australia, or do you feel that your obligations are to people from Islamic countries?

Equating "can't help everyone" as "won't help anyone" sounds wrong to me.

Who said anything about 'won't help anyone'?
We help tens of thousands of people each year to come here. But the ones waiting in line after applying through the legal channels are being denied the chance of coming here because our funds and resources are being tied up in processing the queue jumpers who engage in criminal activity to get themselves uninvited into our country.

I'm still waiting for you or anyone else to tell us how we could afford the immense cost of going back to the policies that Labor and the Greens imposed on us with disastrous results, and want to impose on us again.

And I'm still waiting for you or anyone else to refute my statement that we're not obligated to play nursemaid to the rest of the world by trying to offer a solution to every troubled person who wants to come here, or even 20 percent of them.

 

[Tisme]

The problem is there are at least 3 major factions in the Muslim World , the Sunnies, the Sheites and the Kurds and they all have different interpretations on how to exercise the teachings...As a result they only know one way to talk to each other and that is with the gun.

I'm no expert on these things, but a spelling nazi might have a field day with those words.

My feel it's more Shia aligned to ******** leaders than particular branches of a religion.

 

[Tisme]

I was reading the following link hoping for different perspective and solution (if needed), and it struck me that many arguments for relaxed border crossing are based on the indisputable fact the person promoting migration would not be the wonderful person he/she is if not for his/her forebears who escaped misery.

I'm sure there are plenty of go getters out there who didn't have Irish roots and penniless ancestors who don't, as a corollary, advocate family wealth as the reason for their self ascribed greatness....

http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=42012#.VKpNRk1012s

 

[luutzu]

Explain why we should help people at the expense of our own people in our own country who desperately need help.
If you're so keen to help people then there's unlimited scope for your humane and compassionate spirit right here in Australia.
How many homeless people have you taken in to live under your roof? Have you taken a tramp into a cafe recently and bought him a meal?
Are you in any community service clubs or volunteer organizations like SES or volunteer fire fighters?
Have you been involved with 'Meals on Wheels' or any of the other wonderful organizations that help our elderly people, but struggle to find enough funds to do so?

Your time is limited due to work commitments? OK, but you still have two days a week off don't you? That gives you plenty of time to devote a few hours each week to helping someone less fortunate than yourself.

Do you donate to any of the above organizations?
Am I correct in thinking that you or your family came here as refugees from Vietnam? If that's the case, do you feel any obligation to Australia, or do you feel that your obligations are to people from Islamic countries?


Who said anything about 'won't help anyone'?
We help tens of thousands of people each year to come here. But the ones waiting in line after applying through the legal channels are being denied the chance of coming here because our funds and resources are being tied up in processing the queue jumpers who engage in criminal activity to get themselves uninvited into our country.

I'm still waiting for you or anyone else to tell us how we could afford the immense cost of going back to the policies that Labor and the Greens imposed on us with disastrous results, and want to impose on us again.

And I'm still waiting for you or anyone else to refute my statement that we're not obligated to play nursemaid to the rest of the world by trying to offer a solution to every troubled person who wants to come here, or even 20 percent of them.

No I haven't been doing any charity work or volunteer. I did some in HS and uni, don't think I'll be back to that for a while yet. In the meantime, I do pay taxes... that may do some tiny good, and maybe entitle me to an opinion or two regarding national policies?

Why does being obligated to Australia and Australians mean that I have to "stop the boats"? Can't do both? Does being a compassionate person "for the muslims" mean I'm hurting Australians?

I'm generalising here but I think that if a person is good and generous to another group of alien people, they tend to also do and feel the same for another group of alien people, let alone those who helped them and are now their fellow countryman.

Along the same line of reasoning, I find those who profess to be good and kind, are sweet and generous to me but are mean and despicable to others.. I find their generosity and kindness to be self serving and all but empty words.

----

If fellow human beings are suffering and knock on your door for help, and you then use "reason" and "rationality" like queue jumpers, why am I obligated to help you... do you seriously think you'd then be generous and understanding and feel obligated to help other fellow human beings across the country just because they swear allegiance to the same Queen as you do?

If a person think it's OK to not help one group of people, they will always have other reason to not help another group of people - same outcome, same meanness, just different rationality.

Why should I fund the sick Australians, I'm not sick, don't know anyone who's sick... Why should I lend money to fund this other people's kids education, I don't have any kids, if they want to learn they better pay for it themselves... Why should I pay for country roads, never ever travel on them... suck it up and ride horses farm boy. Get the picture?


Follow that line of reasoning a bit further and if you're OK with leaders sticking it up to the refugees... just be careful the kind of leaders you'd get. For if they have no problem abandoning their humanity when it comes to Muslim strangers, I'm pretty sure they have no problem abandoning anyone else who they also considered a burden, team-mate or no team-mate.

Don't be mean to people, it leads to a lot of nasty consequences... most of which will affect you, your family and fellow Australians.

 

[banco]

But you said in your previous post if they had money they would fly to Australia and not come by boat and now you have contradicted yourself.

It would have been cheaper to fly direct to Australia instead of paying people smugglers $10,000.

As far as I am concerned they are just bloody queue jumpers to the detriment of genuine refugees.

You can't be this stupid. Good luck getting a visa so you can come on a plane if you are from Iraq.

 

[luutzu]

So the ones who are fleeing, are they Summis or Sheites?

They're people, like you and me.

Would you leave your home and come down to, say, Victoria to live? It's a smooth ride, very little or no chance of death, and you could keep all your property with you but I bet you wouldn't do it. Just move to another state and start all over...

I'm pretty sure life must be quite terrible for anyone to decide to leave everything behind and flee... and if it's for no real good reason than hoping for a better life, are we going to seriously belittle that? Wouldn't we do the same?

I'm not saying open our borders, save all the poor... but, again, this is matter of life and death... maybe worth a bit more thought than a quick wave of get stuff you illegal penniless blood sucking infiltrators.