Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[luutzu]

Isn't that what is happening right now? Genuine refugees are in UN run refugee camps throughout the world and Australia takes a significant number of these processed refugees in each year, giving them the rights to full Australian citizenship. We obviously can't take every refugee as we would be overwhelmed, but we do our share (perhaps we could increase the intake a bit). Those trying to enter by other means (boat arrivals) are rejected and will not ever be given settlement rights because they jumped the queue so to speak.

I haven't look but I wouldn't imagine there's a camp nearby but they decided to "jump the queue", get on a boat to get here first.

Refugee camps are usually near "active" areas... near borders of warring states. From scanning the headlines over the years, the ones that arrive recently by boat are from Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Iraq/Iran... So if your country is not currently at war but you're persecuted nonetheless - and yes this does happen; or battle is raging but the camp is across the country... so it's often safest to get on a boat to escape than to travel overland across borders - less risk of being captured and imprisoned.

A quick look at wikipedia and found that under Rudd, of some 1600 refugees on Xmas Island, only 44 were found to not be genuine refugees.

It's not hard to imagine that if you're thinking of fleeing to Australia... given the news of death and detention, if you're not genuine than chances are you'd stay put or go elsewhere. The ones that does try to get here most likely do so because they believe that they do have a genuine case, that those in detention are so because they are not genuine.

Anyway, I don't know what the solution is... but making examples out of those that almost made it here... that's too much like mob justice.

 

[drsmith]

Under rubber stamp Rudd ??

Wasn't he going to set up a camp on Manus to house 10,000 ?

The Rudd government only has the virtue of not being as bad as under Gillard but then it was Rudd who set this train in motion.

If only he had not changed the Howard government's policies, what followed would not have occurred but that was the fault of the electorate for electing the Rudd government in the first place, according to Kevin Rudd.

 

[bellenuit]

A quick look at wikipedia and found that under Rudd, of some 1600 refugees on Xmas Island, only 44 were found to not be genuine refugees.

I'm glad you phrased it that way because as far as I understand they mostly are only in a position to determine who ARE NOT genuine refugees. It doesn't imply that the remainder ARE genuine refugees. In most cases, due to documentation being burned in transit, they have no way of determining the status of the boat arrival. They have been given the benefit of the doubt.

 

[luutzu]

I'm glad you phrased it that way because as far as I understand they mostly are only in a position to determine who ARE NOT genuine refugees. It doesn't imply that the remainder ARE genuine refugees. In most cases, due to documentation being burned in transit, they have no way of determining the status of the boat arrival. They have been given the benefit of the doubt.

That wikipedia source:

"Yet after years of cruel punishment on Nauru, all but 45 of the 1,637 asylum seekers incarcerated in Nauru who were found to be refugees gained residence in Australia or New Zealand."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_Australia

http://cpd.org.au/2012/03/john-menadue-the-pacific-solution-didnt-work-before-and-it-wont-work-now/

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I'm not a lawyer but from experience, if asylum seekers does not have enough evidence to be considered a refugee, their claims are either rejected or they are accepted but on humanitarian grounds - not on grounds of being a refugee as prescribed.

 

[drsmith]

That John Menadue link in the post above is an interesting historical read.

One-liners derived from focus groups and dog-whistling don’t add up to an acceptable refugee policy. But that is what the Coalition offers. ‘Stop the boats … turn them back to Indonesia … take the boat people to Nauru’.

Firstly, the success of the current government's policies in stopping the boats demonstrates how wrong he was with that.

Secondly, with the Labor/Green sugar on the table, boat arrivals reached 1,000 per week in mid 2013 under the Gillard government blowing his argument of insignificance out of the water.

 

[Tisme]

Secondly, with the Labor/Green sugar on the table, boat arrivals reached 1,000 per week in mid 2013 under the Gillard government blowing his argument of insignificance out of the water.

That's playing with statistics I think,

You could use the same numbers to state that there were 86 boats in 1999, 51 in 2000 and 43 in 2001, (~12000 people) while there were only 6 in 2006, 5 in 2007 and 7 in 2008. (~370 people). In the intervening period the boats were still sailing, but being diverted so they didn't really stop as Howard claimed afaik.

Having said that I agree we must have been seen as a soft touch and an agreeable destination for our second world neighbours to offload their overflow arrivals.

I remember being in kota kinabalu while the deal with Malaysia was being sussed out. One local wag commented that a lot of money could be made by those in the position in taking the money in exchange for those illegals already living out in the bays spoiling the ocean views from the resorts, but rebadging them as refugees. I thought myself that there are indeed some clever grifters out there.

 

[drsmith]

That's playing with statistics I think,

No.

The 1,000 per week was real.

Go back in this thread to that time and see for yourself.

 

[bunyip]

And what no comment on the half million Rajapaksa Packer Abbott oiled up threesome.

I know nothing about it.

Or the Cambodian 'bargain'. hardly surprised.

Beggars can't be choosers - the Cambodian deal is obviously less than ideal, but people who jump queues to come here illegally must realize that Australia is no longer a soft touch, and they may not get the outcome they hoped for.
They're not our problem unless we make them our problem by allowing them into our country. We have neither the financial resources nor the responsibility to provide solutions to every unhappy person who wants to leave a troubled country. We already do more than our fair share.
The 12 billion dollar price tag of Labor's open borders fiasco has incurred an interest bill of 750 million dollars since Labor lost office 15 months ago - we simply can't afford the immense cost of being a dumping ground for illegal refugees.

 

[bunyip]

Let's not pretend Abbott could care less if they drowned. He didn't want them here full stop.

Well done Tony Abbot for recognizing that the more we take, the more will come until finally we run out of money and our systems buckles
It’s happened with the UN food program for Syrian refugees – they’ve had to suspend the program because they ran out of funds.
It’s all well and good to play the good Samaritan but it only lasts until the money well runs dry.
Our responsibility is to our own country and our own people, many of whom are desperately in need of help. We can’t afford to play nursemaid to the rest of the world, even if we wanted to.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=49474#.VIjXYnvrV3V

 

[chiff]

In what way are asylum seekers illegal?
I thought it was legal to seek asylum?

 

[Tisme]

No.

The 1,000 per week was real.

Go back in this thread to that time and see for yourself.

Perhaps but I think you know it's mischievous use of opportunistic data. For statistical data to be considered relevant it must pass the validity tests of such things as content, reliability, construct and criteria... I doubt the figure you are talking about would be used in any predication modelling and regression analysis. But obviously such numbers were enough to scare the pants off many voters.

 

[bunyip]

In what way are asylum seekers illegal?
I thought it was legal to seek asylum?

I think so too.
But it’s illegal to pay criminals (people smugglers) to perform an illegal act (people smuggling).
If you or I pay a criminal to perform an illegal act on our behalf, we can be arrested and prosecuted in a court of law.

We’ve been through this argument before, so don’t even bother trying to resurrect it – if you want to think they come here legally, then by all means continue to do so.

 

[drsmith]

Perhaps but I think you know it's mischievous use of opportunistic data. For statistical data to be considered relevant it must pass the validity tests of such things as content, reliability, construct and criteria... I doubt the figure you are talking about would be used in any predication modelling and regression analysis. But obviously such numbers were enough to scare the pants off many voters.

Just go back and take a look.

 

[luutzu]

I think so too.
But it’s illegal to pay criminals (people smugglers) to perform an illegal act (people smuggling).
If you or I pay a criminal to perform an illegal act on our behalf, we can be arrested and prosecuted in a court of law.

We’ve been through this argument before, so don’t even bother trying to resurrect it – if you want to think they come here legally, then by all means continue to do so.

They probably, no, most definitely, broke other laws too. Like being on an overloaded boat; not wearing life jackets... probably throw their rubbish overboard... and last but not lease, not wearing sun screen.


Our Saturdays Vnese language teacher - I think he was a HS teacher during the war and now write for the VNese paper here... he's one of those very smart guy... anyway, during one of our classes he told us about Yin and Yang... how in everything there is good and bad; in every bad thing there is some goodness and every goodness something bad. So one way you could judge a person is by what they choose to see in a situation.

So take refugees for example... they're bloody risking their lives, most likely fleeing from imprisonment and persecution, most likely sold everything they have to get on a boat where they might never see the shores again, most likely they could starve or be attacked by pirates etc. etc....

Some would look at that and call them criminals, on the same level as those paying gangsters for a hit against someone... Others may see it differently.

 

[drsmith]

So take refugees for example... they're bloody risking their lives, most likely fleeing from imprisonment and persecution, most likely sold everything they have to get on a boat where they might never see the shores again, most likely they could starve or be attacked by pirates etc. etc....

Some would look at that and call them criminals, on the same level as those paying gangsters for a hit against someone... Others may see it differently.

Not quiet everything,

Louis Vuitton have never been more popular than they are right now. But believe it or not, Louis Vuitton Mongram Speedy Bags have been the "it" bags for over 50 years now...

The size of the bags varies from Speedy 25 to Speedy 40 and so does the price: $675.00 - $750.00, they are available in Louis Vuitton online store, but I am sure you will prefer to buy your LV in a Louis Vuitton boutique near you.

http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/201...ed-before-the-boat-borne-invasion-of-the.html

http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/07/more-of-shazzas-postcard-from-christmas-island.html

My bolds.

 

[chiff]

I would have thought those bags were cheap copies,as all of you people that have trolled Bangkok would know.
Whilst splitting hairs over legality-if there was any justice in the world John Howard would be up on war crimes.
The policy of the US and its hanger-ons to shape the world to their ideology has resulted in refugees aplenty.
A strong man gives countries stability it has been demonstrated.

 

[orr]

When you are 'force fed Rectally' as in this case for decades by News Corp, Fox, Sky, You will say do and believe anything. As illustrated by the major contributors here. It's all in the recently released CIA report.....

 

[bunyip]

I was a registered migration agent for 15 years and a lawyer for longer

The whole thing is broken and it relies on divisive and incorrect language to whip people into a rage over something that is really a storm in a teacup.
There isn't some flood, some slavering hoard of Muslim fundamentalists about to over run our way of life unless we act like complete arseholes to the most underpriveleged and at risk people on the planet.

A 'storm in a teacup' is it?
You must be living on another planet if you can’t see the immense problems that countries around the world have landed themselves with by allowing large numbers of Islamic immigrants to come in.
Take your head out of the sand and you just might realize that Islamists will cause exactly the same problems in Australia, and in fact are already starting to do so. It’s utter stupidity to speed up the onset of these problems by increasing our intake of people from Islamic countries. Especially when there are hundreds of thousands of people from non-Muslim countries who have applied through the legal channels to come here, and have the language and work skills to fit in right away and start making a positive contribution to our country, yet they’re being bypassed in favor of people who are a burden on us from the outset, who want to change our laws and reject our values and our way of life.
And just in case you’re tempted to tell me that most Islamic people are peaceful and they’re not like that.......I put it to you that most Germans were peaceful too, yet Germany was torn apart by a small number of extremists called Nazis.
You tell us ‘there isn't some flood, some slavering hoard of Muslim fundamentalists about to over run our way of life’.
My answer is that it doesn’t take a slavering horde of Muslims to ruin a country – all it takes is a handful of extremists to ride roughshod over the peaceful majority.
There are over half a million Muslims in Australia – if only 0.02% of them are radicals or become radicals, that’s 100 people with extremist views who pose a serious risk to our lifestyle and the security of our country.
They’re the ones brandishing signs saying ‘Death to those who insult Islam’, and ‘Behead those who insult the prophet’, and ‘Sharia law is the only law’, as they protest and incite violence and hatred over some film that was made overseas by someone with no connection to Australia.
They’re the ones running an Islamic bookshop that's a front for a recruitment center for fighters to leave our country and go over to Syria to fight on the side of the extremists, then return to Australia with their new-found skills and radical ideology.
They’re the ones who are rotting in jail for planning mass murder at our military bases.
They’re the ones planning public beheadings of innocent people right here in Australia.
They’re the ones who are making plans that we don’t yet know about, plans that will sooner or later be carried out despite the best efforts of our police and security forces to sniff them out before they strike.
Yet you tell us this is all just ‘a storm in a teacup’!!??

Two innocent people killed by a crazed Muslim extremist in the heart of Sydney, 3 little girls left without a mother.
So tell us, Ganyeka - is this Muslim immigration business still just a ‘storm in a teacup’???!!
Next time something similar happens, and it’s only a matter of time before it does, a member of your family might be among the victims. And the perpetrator of the next senseless act of violence might be someone you helped to get into our country during your 15 years as a registered migration agent and lawyer.

Have you opened your eyes yet, or is your head still buried in the sand?

 

[Tisme]

When you are 'force fed Rectally' as in this case for decades by News Corp, Fox, Sky, You will say do and believe anything. As illustrated by the major contributors here. It's all in the recently released CIA report.....

I cancelled my Courier Mail today. I have had enough of the diatribe, propaganda, political invective, factual omissions and falsehoods they serve up every day. I'm guessing I have already suffered a reasonable loss of individual thinking because of the trash in print and perhaps the last line of mental defence has kicked in before permanent brain fade.

If things had gone any further I could have found myself posting fatuous articles from News Corp to bolster my own opinions as fact; there are so many articles to choose from if you are indoctrinated into their religion.

 

[noco]

Two innocent people killed by a crazed Muslim extremist in the heart of Sydney, 3 little girls left without a mother.
So tell us, Ganyeka - is this Muslim immigration business still just a ‘storm in a teacup’???!!
Next time something similar happens, and it’s only a matter of time before it does, a member of your family might be among the victims. And the perpetrator of the next senseless act of violence might be someone you helped to get into our country during your 15 years as a registered migration agent and lawyer.

Have you opened your eyes yet, or is your head still buried in the sand?

A nice piece of work bunyip...you are 100% correct...As you well know I have been thrashed by some idiots on this forum for some of my comments about Islam and the Muslim community.

They sure have their heads buried in the sand.