Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[drsmith]

So much for the veil of media silence and secrecy so as not to affect operational matters!

Now starts the 'spin', the propaganda, the appeal to ethics and morality to try to explain why this dumb policy didn't work.

Transferring rescued asylum seekers from our navy ships strictly speaking is not turning back the boats as the Coalition described it.

In terms of returning the asylum seekers to Indonesia, the effect if obviously the same but that's what Labor in government also tried to do.

 

[drsmith]

To some extent, this point of view from Indonesia is understandable,

A senior advisor to the Indonesian government says the country should not accept asylum seekers rescued by Australia as they would be a "social burden" and do not want to return there.

They weren't the one's who created the problem in the first place. That being said, they also have to realise that preventing their arrival in Australia is a critical element of solving the problem. Perhaps reassurance, not only from the new government but from a nation as a whole is an important factor in convincing them we want to bring the asylum seeker trade to an end.

Labor and the media have a role to play here.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...ack-asylum-seekers-indonesian-advisor/5084294

What a joke Indos acting like the Coalition, there is am election looming, Morrison says we need to be discrete ............like he was in opposition?

Any reasonable person would be utterly ashamed of defending Labor's record relative to the Coalition in this policy area as you have given the results of Labor's ideological folly and the resultant mess it has left the new Coalition government to clean up.

 

[Julia]

An emergency evacuation from the Philippines would seem more important now than pandering to people who pay thousands to sneak in here.

+1. The absolute devastation and helplessness of the people affected by this typhoon is what we should be setting out to assist. They have no electricity, no food and no water. The initial high death toll will be but a fraction of what will result from hunger and disease. Aid agencies always do their best, but their efforts are puny in the face of the dreadful reality.

 

[MrBurns]

+1. The absolute devastation and helplessness of the people affected by this typhoon is what we should be setting out to assist. They have no electricity, no food and no water. The initial high death toll will be but a fraction of what will result from hunger and disease. Aid agencies always do their best, but their efforts are puny in the face of the dreadful reality.

You're right Julia, we should be airlifting there people out , the families the children , it's urgent and we could accommodate a lot of them here in facilities that at least feed and clothe them until it's safe for them to return home.

 

[AAA]

Any reasonable person would be utterly ashamed of defending Labor's record relative to the Coalition in this policy area as you have given the results of Labor's ideological folly and the resultant mess it has left the new Coalition government to clean up.

Yep. You would think this would be a subject Labor would like to steer clear of. They took a policy that was working, dismantled it resulting in hundreds of people dying and billions of dollars wasted.

 

[drsmith]

Interesting piece in today's Australian,

As the government continued to fend off criticism it had botched the relationship with Jakarta following a high-seas stand-off over the weekend, The Australian has been told tensions with Jakarta have not had any impact on co-operative law-enforcement measures between the countries.

It is understood that, since September, 1151 asylum-seekers have been prevented from leaving Indonesia, Malaysia or Sri Lanka on 27 boats - almost double the 600-odd to arrive since the government began Operation Sovereign Borders on September 18.

The number estimated from yesterday's arrivals at Xmas Island is about 40. With about 60 from the 'standoff group' that arrived over the weekend, that makes about 100 so far for this reporting period.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s-afp-stop-boats/story-fn9hm1gu-1226757726065

 

[bellenuit]

I'm hope Abbott does not entertaining the idea of doing a swap with Indonesia of people rescued in Indonesian waters by Australia for those refugees already residing in Indonesia. This would be too easy to abuse by Indonesia and would encourage them to facilitate asylum seekers (or even paid "volunteers") leaving in leaky boats, getting Australia to rescue them and then being able to send the equivalent amount of refugees from Indonesian camps in exchange for taking back those rescued at sea.

 

[noco]

Interesting piece in today's Australian,



The number estimated from yesterday's arrivals at Xmas Island is about 40. With about 60 from the 'standoff group' that arrived over the weekend, that makes about 100 so far for this reporting period.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s-afp-stop-boats/story-fn9hm1gu-1226757726065

Doc, I hope to hell Abbott does not fall for this Indonesian people swap deal.

If he does the Indons will open the flood gates and we will be back to square one.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s-scott-morrison/story-fn9hm1gu-1226758090955

 

[Whiskers]

I'm hope Abbott does not entertaining the idea of doing a swap with Indonesia of people rescued in Indonesian waters by Australia for those refugees already residing in Indonesia. This would be too easy to abuse by Indonesia and would encourage them to facilitate asylum seekers (or even paid "volunteers") leaving in leaky boats, getting Australia to rescue them and then being able to send the equivalent amount of refugees from Indonesian camps in exchange for taking back those rescued at sea.

Yeah, he's done some dumb things trying to deal with this issue, but I'm pretty confident he won't buy into any swap deal.

I suspect he's realised he has to humour them along a bit to keep dialogue going, since we are pretty low down on Indonesia's foreign affairs radar. Not sure he can gain much from it, but it's certainly better than standing on a soap box over here and proclaiming how he's going to go over there and do this, that and the other.

 

[drsmith]

Doc, I hope to hell Abbott does not fall for this Indonesian people swap deal.

If he does the Indons will open the flood gates and we will be back to square one.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s-scott-morrison/story-fn9hm1gu-1226758090955

Wishful thinking on the part of Indonesia I suspect. I don't think they will.

Scott Morrison made that pretty clear today.

In response Immigration Minister Scott Morrison released a statement saying the Government "will continue to pursue all areas of possible cooperation" with Indonesia, but he stated clearly that "the Australian government is not engaged in people swaps".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-12/abbott-says-no-deal-with-indonesia-on-asylum-seekers/5086594

The problem with a people swap is that it gives Indonesia a direct incentive to keep them coming.

It's clear though that something is being worked out behind the scenes and the harder public line from Tony Abbott is I would suspect part of that process.

 

[drsmith]

A boat reported as intercepted on its way to Darwin on Monday night with 19 on board.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2013/11/12/327295_ntnews.html

Meanwhile, it seems the messages from Indonesia are starting to become mixed,

When asked by The Australian yesterday if negotiations with Jakarta included the prospect of Australia taking back those in Indonesian detention centres, Dr Anwar, an adviser to Indonesian Vice President Boediono, confirmed the proposal had been faxed through from the Australian embassy.

"The Australian government has put this proposal to Indonesia," she said. "I think Australia probably could afford to be much more generous with asylum-seekers . . . Australia is a wealthy country.

"Djoko Suyanto, Indonesia's Co-ordinating Minister for Politics Security and Law, responsible for asylum-seeker issues, yesterday strongly denied his government was discussing an exchange arrangement with Australia.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...t-for-tat-erupts/story-fn9hm1gu-1226758538129

 

[drsmith]

On that alleged fax,

But Ms Anwar said the proposal had come from the Australian embassy in Jakarta via a fax written in Bahasa, the Indonesian language.

''It was a proposal put to Indonesia by Australia and Indonesia hasn't deliberated on it … we still have to study this,'' she said.

It had been ''faxed to the Indonesia government'' by the embassy, she said, though she would not comment on whether it constituted a ''people swap'' deal.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...dicts-abbott-on-boat-deal-20131112-2xem5.html

If it hasn't been deliberated on by Indonesia, then why did Dewi go public with the suggestion on Monday ?

The revelations came as Indonesian government adviser Dewi Fortuna Anwar said talks were being held with the Abbott government on a people-swap deal similar to the former Labor government's proposed Malaysia deal. Ms Anwar said under the deal, asylum-seekers intercepted by Australian authorities could be sent to Indonesia in exchange for genuine refugees.

"If Indonesia were to take them, the costs of the burdens (asylum-seekers) would be borne by Australia," she told the ABC."

At the same time, Australia will take the same number of people that are already sitting in detention centres in Indonesia."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s-afp-stop-boats/story-fn9hm1gu-1226757726065

 

[trainspotter]

Labor is calling on Morris to go public on the latest boat incident calling it "In the public's interest" but the Indo government has requested a cone of silence on the whole matter. Typical muck raking socialist card carrying communism Labor politics at it's best.

The federal opposition will pressure Immigration Minister Scott Morrison to confirm whether or not an asylum seeker vessel has landed in Darwin undetected.

The government has so far remained tight-lipped on reports a boat carrying Somali refugees reached Australia's northern coastline on Monday.

Opposition immigration spokesman Richard Marles said Mr Morrison should rectify his "arrogant" treatment of the public by addressing the issue during question time in parliament on Wednesday.

"Information should be managed to the Australian people on a public interest basis. A needs-to-know basis for managing information is simply not good enough," he said.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...morrison-at-question-time-20131113-2xf7x.html

 

[overhang]

Labor is calling on Morris to go public on the latest boat incident calling it "In the public's interest" but the Indo government has requested a cone of silence on the whole matter. Typical muck raking socialist card carrying communism Labor politics at it's best.



http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...morrison-at-question-time-20131113-2xf7x.html

Yup anything that doesn't support totalitarianism must have a socialist communist agenda

 

[trainspotter]

Yup anything that doesn't support totalitarianism must have a socialist communist agenda

So it's in the public interest when the Indonesian government clearly said to Tony "Tenang ... tidak media dan kita akan ganti orang" and now Labor want it telegraphed throughout the region for everyone to hear?

 

[Whiskers]

Labor is calling on Morris to go public on the latest boat incident calling it "In the public's interest" but the Indo government has requested a cone of silence on the whole matter. Typical muck raking socialist card carrying communism Labor politics at it's best.



http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...morrison-at-question-time-20131113-2xf7x.html

What is in Australia's national interest is knowing whether the governments policies (well Abbott & Morrison's anyway) are working and not opening up holes elsewhere while they are obsessed with on with some of their dumb tactics.

One of the consequences I warned off earlier was a change of strategy by the smugglers to get around the navy intercept and turn or tow back policy was for them to go smaller and sneakier and go straight for the Aus mainland like they did in the early days.

That's obviously a much bigger risk of bringing in exotic pests and diseases that would threaten our agricultural exports and overload our health system with unforseen outbreaks of disease... not to mention criminals and terrorists.

If boats have made it too the mainland, it's obviously a double whammy... found guilty of being obsessed with a dumb head on tactic that was never going to work and leaving the flank exposed in the meantime.

When you start looking at these issues from the national best interest test perspective rather than just a political party's best interest... you might see the relevance and significance.

There is no point in trying to argue secrecy to hinder the smugglers... they have radio and phone communication and knew before the Abbott and Morison did whether it was successful or not and leak the info to the Indo press to confirm and keep their business going.

 

[trainspotter]

What is in Australia's national interest is knowing whether the governments policies (well Abbott & Morrison's anyway) are working and not opening up holes elsewhere while they are obsessed with on with some of their dumb tactics.

One of the consequences I warned off earlier was a change of strategy by the smugglers to get around the navy intercept and turn or tow back policy was for them to go smaller and sneakier and go straight for the Aus mainland like they did in the early days.

That's obviously a much bigger risk of bringing in exotic pests and diseases that would threaten our agricultural exports and overload our health system with unforseen outbreaks of disease... not to mention criminals and terrorists.

If boats have made it too the mainland, it's obviously a double whammy... found guilty of being obsessed with a dumb head on tactic that was never going to work and leaving the flank exposed in the meantime.

When you start looking at these issues from the national best interest test perspective rather than just a political party's best interest... you might see the relevance and significance.

There is no point in trying to argue secrecy to hinder the smugglers... they have radio and phone communication and knew before the Abbott and Morison did whether it was successful or not and leak the info to the Indo press to confirm and keep their business going.

Put the crack pipe down Whiskers it has effected your comprehension abilities.

Indonesia asked Australia to keep a low profile in the media on the asylum seekers as they are supposed to be guarding their borders to the North stopping immigrants from entering into Indonesia. The Indonesians are all about respect and do not like being shown up, especially in the media. Think Schapelle Corby incident. If she kept her head down and obeyed their (unwritten) laws she would not have received as much bird time as she did.

When was the last time you were in Indonesia Whiskers? I think it might be in the national best interest for you to visit there ... very soon in fact.

P.S. "Tenang ... tidak media dan kita akan ganti orang" translates to "Quiet, no media involved as we swap people"

 

[Whiskers]

Indonesia asked Australia to keep a low profile in the media on the asylum seekers

The media is the media wherever they are and there is always an element that won't play by the patronising or domineering hand of the government.

Even second and third string government officials have managed to get hold of information and leak it to the press on some issues such as the leaked foreign affairs minutes earlier and the current asylum seeker swap negotiations, despite officials wanting to keep it under wraps. Mind you the Indos were happy to go public with the spying issue despite Aus no doubt preferring they kept that out of the media.

The Indonesians are all about respect and do not like being shown up, especially in the media

The more pertinent point here is that POLITICIANS everywhere do not like being shown up in the media.

That's the futility of dumb policies and expecting they can keep them out of the media in this day and age.

If you think Abbott and Indo really believes "Quiet, no media involved as we swap people" you are the one smoking too much crack.

That would come back to bite Abbott like a fr!gg!n great white the size of a hump back wale.

 

[Whiskers]

TS, more news that puts a lie or at least exposes the diabolical fallacy of your assertion that "Indonesia asked Australia to keep a low profile in the media on the asylum seekers" as a matter of pride.

Australia attempted to turn back asylum seeker boat: Indonesian official
By Indonesia correspondent George Roberts, staff
Updated 12 minutes ago

Indonesia's rescue agency Basarnas says Australian authorities attempted to take an asylum seeker boat back to Indonesia last week, directly contradicting the Australian Government's version of events...

The agency's head of evaluations, Yopi Haryadi, says the boat was intercepted by Australian authorities 107 nautical miles from Indonesia, or about half way to Christmas Island.

It was then taken by Australian authorities to a location about 58 nautical miles off the coast as Australia attempted to get Indonesia to accept its return...

Asylum boat sinks off coast of Java

The diplomatic rift between the two countries appeared to widen as Basarnas also confirmed the sinking of another asylum seeker boat south-west of Java.

Agency spokesman Hernanto says local fishermen have rescued five children, but there were about 50 people on board the vessel.

Basarnas has also indicated a change in policy in direct response to the Australian Government's attempt to return asylum seekers.

Mr Haryadi says the country's coordinating ministry of politics, law and security has taken control of decisions around whether Australian Customs and Navy ships can enter Indonesian territory.

It is aimed at stopping Australia returning asylum seekers.

The minister responsible, Djoko Suyanto, says Indonesia has never agreed to Australia's wishes and that will not change.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...-disputes-morrison27s-asylum-seeker-b/5089706​

Well, one good thing to come out of this widening rift would be Indo not allowing Aus boats in their waters. That would keep them closer to home and hopefully able to pay more attention to asylum boats sneaking around behind them directly to the mainland.

 

[IFocus]

Labor and the media have a role to play here.

Is that like the roll the Coalition did in opposition................?





http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...ack-asylum-seekers-indonesian-advisor/5084294


Any reasonable person would be utterly ashamed of defending Labor's record relative to the Coalition in this policy area as you have given the results of Labor's ideological folly and the resultant mess it has left the new Coalition government to clean up.

So Rudd's PNG policy is working then as its not Abbotts?