Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[IFocus]

Boat arrivals down by 70% since the election.

That about sums it up.

Yep Rudds PNG policy working LOL.......wait for it.....noooooooo

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Hows the leaky boat buying program going?

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Prime Minister Tony Abbott backs down in asylum seeker stand-off with Indonesia

The Abbott government has blinked in its asylum seeker stand-off with Indonesia, ordering a Customs boat with up to 63 asylum seekers on board to Christmas Island, throwing its boats policy into disarray.

The arrival will be seen as a loss of face for the Coalition, which vowed before the election that Australian authorities would not act as a taxi service for refugees. It may also encourage other people smuggling syndicates to try their hand.

Indonesia had refused to take the asylum seekers whose boat had got into trouble off the coast of Java, raising question about the government's turn back the boats policy.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/prime-minister-tony-abbott-backs-down-in-asylum-seeker-standoff-with-indonesia-20131109-2x8n8.html#ixzz2kF2g7luD

 

[MrBurns]

Yep Rudds PNG policy working LOL.......wait for it.....noooooooo

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Hows the leaky boat buying program going?
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Prime Minister Tony Abbott backs down in asylum seeker stand-off with Indonesia
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...h-indonesia-20131109-2x8n8.html#ixzz2kF2g7luD

Nothing Rudd did worked well except getting rid of Gillard and then himself

Yes Tony is saving the nation much to the ire of the socialists and their dopey supporters.

The boat buy back was an option, how's the pink batts thingy going ?
Oh yes the relatives of the dead tradesmen are looking forward to the results of the enquiry, if they can get Gillard to co operate.

When one looks back at the Gillard Rudd era it's a bloody miracle we got through it at all.

 

[drsmith]

Yep Rudds PNG policy working LOL.......wait for it.....noooooooo

If Kevin Rudd's quick election solution is working so well in isolation, why did Labor wait so long to implement such a solution ?

Why did Labor wait after the arrivals first resumed after Kevin Rudd dismantled the Howard government's policies ?

Why did labor wait under Julia Gillard as the arrival rate grew and grew ?

Why did Labor wait for over 50,000 arrivals and over 1,000 deaths at sea to act ?

The answer is simple.

Labor's heart is not in solving the problem it created. The huge cost and loss of live is nothing to this morally bankrupt party.

Kevin Rudd belated action was more of an election stunt than it was anything else. Even the funding to support it ran out post January 2014.

 

[drsmith]

Labor, for all its bluster over the latest boat actually tried themselves to return them to Indonesia in a similar fashion.

It's really quiet interesting what the Indonesians are now revealing,

.
Mr Agus gave further details of the requests that had been rejected and said there had been similar examples under both Labor and Liberal governments. ‘‘It’s not gone into the media, that’s why the recent incident looks like it is the first time. In fact, Indonesia has made similar decisions more than three times ... under the current government and the previous government, in 2012 and 2013,’’ he said.

‘‘The boats were fine. In some of those incidents they activated the distress alert and when the Australian ships were nearing them they deliberately broke the engines so that the Australian ships could take them,’’ Mr Agus said.

‘‘Everyone was safe, and besides their boats were already closer to Christmas Island. We were asked to receive them. We said we didn’t want to. If there were incidents where the boats were wrecked and people were in the water, of course Indonesia would help because it is a humanitarian issue.’’

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/boat-policy-founders-20131110-2xa6x.html

 

[IFocus]

Labor, for all its bluster over the latest boat actually tried themselves to return them to Indonesia in a similar fashion.

It's really quiet interesting what the Indonesians are now revealing,



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/boat-policy-founders-20131110-2xa6x.html

Of course Labor tried to return asylum seekers they just didn't run the spin of turn back the boats crap, if the Indos say no it means no.

Two boat loads rejected and counting

 

[sails]

Of course Labor tried to return asylum seekers they just didn't run the spin of turn back the boats crap, if the Indos say no it means no.

Two boat loads rejected and counting

Four boatloads taken back by Indonesia in the last few weeks... and counting...

 

[noco]

Four boatloads taken back by Indonesia in the last few weeks... and counting...

What beats the hell out of me is why our navy is entering Indonesian waters to asisst these boats when they send out a distress call just 40 Nautical miles from Java.

Why the hell doesn't the navy relay the call to Indonesain authorities....."HA Marty, you have a boat in trouble 40 miles south of Java....you better come and get them because we don't want to infringe on your sovereignity"

And the biased stupid left wing ABC this morning states the Government's policy is in tatters....even Kochie on Channel 7 made a beat up of.

These people will say and do anything to discredit the Abbott Goverment......Never heard them say much about the three boats per day arriving under Rudd.

What a load of BS.

 

[sails]

What beats the hell out of me is why our navy is entering Indonesian waters to asisst these boats when they send out a distress call just 40 Nautical miles from Java.

Why the hell doesn't the navy relay the call to Indonesain authorities....."HA Marty, you have a boat in trouble 40 miles south of Java....you better come and get them because we don't want to infringe on your sovereignity"

And the biased stupid left wing ABC this morning states the Government's policy is in tatters....even Kochie on Channel 7 made a beat up of.

These people will say and do anything to discredit the Abbott Goverment......Never heard them say much about the three boats per day arriving under Rudd.

What a load of BS.

Noco, I may be wrong but my understanding is that, under international maritime law, the ship that is closest to a vessel in trouble is required to assist. I also understand that our navy is patrolling the Indonesian border in an effort to prevent boats getting through to Australia. If so, that probably puts our Navy at close proximity to AS boats being sabotaged. Perhaps the boats deliberately sabotage close to one of our Navy ships and/or perhaps the Indonesian Navy deliberately have their ships well away so that by law Australian ships are required to help.

It seems this last dispute was over the safety of the boat. Indonesia decided the passengers were not in danger so they refused to take them. Obviously engine failure does not put passengers in danger according to Indonesia and perhaps the Navy should have refused to assist on the basis they were not in danger. Indonesian Navy would have had time to assist them.

Maybe next time the Navy should wait until the passengers are in the water so Indonesia has to take them under international law or international law will have to be more specific to prevent people from drowning before they are considered in danger.

 

[drsmith]

Of course Labor tried to return asylum seekers they just didn't run the spin of turn back the boats crap, if the Indos say no it means no.

Two boat loads rejected and counting

To admit to attempting to return asylum seekers to Indonesia would have been in direct contradiction to the ideology of Labor and their Green partners in government. It's also not up to Indonesia to determine our migration policy.

Strictly speaking, they're not boat turn backs but it does again demonstrate Labor's hypocrisy for criticising the government on the information they keep confidential while doing the same themselves in government.

On the topic of numbers, the conversation in this thread would benefit greatly if you refrained from comment at least until the arrival numbers under the Coalition reached those that occurred under Labor given your strident partisan views on this issue.

 

[drsmith]

Perhaps what has to be worked out now is the terms under which we enter Indonesia's SAR zone.

Mr Morrison says the government is succeeding in stopping the boats, but the situation with rescues and returns is "very frustrating".

"There's no real rhyme or reason to it necessarily," Mr Morrison told Fairfax Radio on Monday. "I think this last instance became very problematic because it became very public."

Mr Morrison says he had given the Indonesian government an undertaking that when such incidents occurred "we would do it directly and we would do it discretely".

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=923385

 

[drsmith]

Tony Abbott has now weighed in on rescues in Indonesia's SAR zone,

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has suggested that Indonesia had an obligation to accept the asylum seekers.

"These people were in a search and rescue situation in the Indonesian search and rescue zone," he said.

"Now the normal international law is that if you are rescued in a country's search and rescue zone - that country has an obligation to take you.

"You can go to the nearest port and the nearest port is normally the port that is in the country whose search and rescue zone you've been picked up in."

There are also reports of another two boats intercepted over the weekend,

Thewest.com.au understands that two boats - believed to be carrying scores of people - were picked up by border protection authorities over the weekend. Preparations are being made on Christmas Island to receive the two groups.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/19770026/more-boats-arrive-amid-indon-stand-off/

According to Shaz (on Xmas Island), one is currently being unloaded and another two are on the way.

http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/201...eporting-the-arrival-of-another-boatload.html

 

[Whiskers]

What beats the hell out of me is why our navy is entering Indonesian waters to asisst these boats when they send out a distress call just 40 Nautical miles from Java.

Good question.

The answer is in the futility of the policy of trying to turn back the boats WITHOUT agreement with Indonesia. Such agreement has never been there since Howard, Rudd and Gillard... Abbott just insisted in an effort in futility.

You can only push **** up hill so far before it all slops back in your face.

Why the hell doesn't the navy relay the call to Indonesain authorities....."HA Marty, you have a boat in trouble 40 miles south of Java....you better come and get them because we don't want to infringe on your sovereignity"

I think you'll find they tried!.. but the Indo's aren't as silly as Abbott and Morrison hoped.

And the biased stupid left wing ABC this morning states the Government's policy is in tatters....even Kochie on Channel 7 made a beat up of.

These people will say and do anything to discredit the Abbott Goverment......Never heard them say much about the three boats per day arriving under Rudd.

Wow... so much for freedom of the press, democracy... and, well if Abbott and Morrison were as smart as they pretended they wouldn't do dumb things to get criticized for, would they!

Noco, I may be wrong but my understanding is that, under international maritime law, the ship that is closest to a vessel in trouble is required to assist. I also understand that our navy is patrolling the Indonesian border in an effort to prevent boats getting through to Australia. If so, that probably puts our Navy at close proximity to AS boats being sabotaged. Perhaps the boats deliberately sabotage close to one of our Navy ships and/or perhaps the Indonesian Navy deliberately have their ships well away so that by law Australian ships are required to help.

It seems this last dispute was over the safety of the boat. Indonesia decided the passengers were not in danger so they refused to take them. Obviously engine failure does not put passengers in danger according to Indonesia and perhaps the Navy should have refused to assist on the basis they were not in danger. Indonesian Navy would have had time to assist them.

Maybe next time the Navy should wait until the passengers are in the water so Indonesia has to take them under international law or international law will have to be more specific to prevent people from drowning before they are considered in danger.

Gee sails... you have almost got it worked out!

All you need to see now is that the more boats we put up there closer to Indonesia, the easier target they are for people smugglers to send more people too in leakier boats for us to rescue.

When the futility of this tactic of trying to block the back, well it's now become a front door... eventually sinks in, they might reflect on another strategy to target the smugglers thereby eliminating all this drama and expense at sea.

 

[Whiskers]

Tony Abbott has now weighed in on rescues in Indonesia's SAR zone,

So much for the veil of media silence and secrecy so as not to affect operational matters!

Now starts the 'spin', the propaganda, the appeal to ethics and morality to try to explain why this dumb policy didn't work.

 

[trainspotter]

It would appear Indonesia is being recalcitrant on it's SOLAS Convention duties?

SOLAS Convention

On receiving information that persons are in distress at sea, the master of a ship, which is in a position to provide assistance, must proceed with all speed to their assistance.

This obligation applies regardless of the nationality or status of such persons or the circumstances in which they are found.

Where assistance has been provided to persons in distress in a state’s SRR (search and rescue region), that state has primary responsibility to ensure that coordination and cooperation occurs between governments, so that survivors are disembarked from the assisting ship and delivered to a place of safety.

As a matter of practice ‘a place of safety’ could be the nearest convenient port. This will not necessarily be a port in the territory of the state in whose SRR an incident occurs, nor in the territory of the state of the vessel rendering assistance.

Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono was heard to say "Sing ken ken, mereka semua akan segera makanan ikan" as he dove into his second helping of babi guling.

 

[sails]

So much for the veil of media silence and secrecy so as not to affect operational matters!

Now starts the 'spin', the propaganda, the appeal to ethics and morality to try to explain why this dumb policy didn't work.

The real dumb policy was Rudd opening up the borders to all and sundry. If he had kept the working system handed to him by the coalition Australia would not have this problem now.

Pretty rude to call the efforts of the coalition dumb policy when they at least are actively trying to fix the awful mess left by labor.

 

[Whiskers]

TS, it seems the short answer there, is the Asylum seekers want to come to Aus, Indonesia wants them to go to Aus... so long as we get up there right in their face with our navy boats, where we want to take them after we rescue them is of little consequence as the wishes of the rescued (to seek asylum in Aus) is arguably the overriding issue.

It seems to me this has just encouraged them to head straight for or 'hail' the nearest Aus navy vessel to come and pick them up.

The simple solution is to not have our boats anywhere near Indonesia so they have to prepare for a longer voyage in more seaworthy boats and thereby compel Indonesia to rescue them in close proximity to Indonesia when they send a distress call 'hail' for one of our boats. If our boats are not there they cannot expect us to rescue them.

What they might consider is something like shooting across the bows when the cross the border like they do illegal fishing boats... but even then we don't persue of fire directly on their boat very often when they don't stop.

In any case we'd still have to bring them back to Aus.

The boats are not the problem... the smugglers and the product the sell are what matters. Howard took automatic residency away with the pacific solution, Rudd reluctantly reinstated a similar PNG deal. That slowed the flow a bit, the ones dead set on Aus. But there are still some who see PNG or Naru as an indirect route to Aus, NZ or somewhere else over time.

Short of cooperation with Indonesian authorities or going over their head with something from the UN like tying smugglers to piracy typr laws... that's the best he'll do for now.

 

[Whiskers]

The real dumb policy was Rudd opening up the borders to all and sundry. If he had kept the working system handed to him by the coalition Australia would not have this problem now.

Yes that was dumb.

There were many influences in Labor policy, a compromise of factional demands, but one good thing that can be said for Rudd is he was prepared to change this policy in the face of overwhelming public opposition. That kept him in favour of enough to still be a potential force in Labor and the voting public.

The same could be said of Abbott, some policies are just too far to one faction, the far right, or too dumb to be effective.

Pretty rude to call the efforts of the coalition dumb policy when they at least are actively trying to fix the awful mess left by labor.

Dumb has nothing to do with 'intent', good, bad or otherwise.

Dumb is simply doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

 

[trainspotter]

"Sing ken ken, mereka semua akan segera makanan ikan"

Roughly translates to "Don't worry about it, they will all soon be fish food" ... in other words Indonesia is of the uncaring variety in this debacle.

It would appear that Indonesian "assets" are in the North trying to STOP the ocean going vessels carrying asylum seekers coming INTO Indonesia whilst Australian "assets" are in the South trying to STOP then coming into Australia.

It is understood the high tempo of disruptions is in part the result of a request by Kevin Rudd, who after reclaiming the Labor leadership in June petitioned Dr Yudhoyono to increase law enforcement efforts against the smugglers. Indonesia's ocean-faring boats, the ones capable of mounting rescues in high seas, are deployed to the country's north for strategic reasons, meaning Jakarta struggles to mount rescues within its southern search-and-rescue zones.

Its civil maritime assets are ill-equipped to operate far from shore, effectively leaving Australia responsible for co-ordinating, or even conducting, rescues that occur between Indonesia and Christmas Island.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...eekers-returned/story-fn9hm1gu-1226739253852#

My contacts in Batam advise me that the Indonesian "assets" are not doing their job very well

 

[MrBurns]

An emergency evacuation from the Philippines would seem more important now than pandering to people who pay thousands to sneak in here.

 

[IFocus]

What a joke Indos acting like the Coalition, there is am election looming, Morrison says we need to be discrete ............like he was in opposition?

Mr Morrison says the government is succeeding in stopping the boats, but the situation with rescues and returns is "very frustrating".

"There's no real rhyme or reason to it necessarily," Mr Morrison told Fairfax Radio on Monday. "I think this last instance became very problematic because it became very public."

Mr Morrison says he had given the Indonesian government an undertaking that when such incidents occurred "we would do it directly and we would do it discretely".