Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[noco]

TS, more news that puts a lie or at least exposes the diabolical fallacy of your assertion that "Indonesia asked Australia to keep a low profile in the media on the asylum seekers" as a matter of pride.

Australia attempted to turn back asylum seeker boat: Indonesian official
By Indonesia correspondent George Roberts, staff
Updated 12 minutes ago

Indonesia's rescue agency Basarnas says Australian authorities attempted to take an asylum seeker boat back to Indonesia last week, directly contradicting the Australian Government's version of events...

The agency's head of evaluations, Yopi Haryadi, says the boat was intercepted by Australian authorities 107 nautical miles from Indonesia, or about half way to Christmas Island.

It was then taken by Australian authorities to a location about 58 nautical miles off the coast as Australia attempted to get Indonesia to accept its return...

Asylum boat sinks off coast of Java

The diplomatic rift between the two countries appeared to widen as Basarnas also confirmed the sinking of another asylum seeker boat south-west of Java.

Agency spokesman Hernanto says local fishermen have rescued five children, but there were about 50 people on board the vessel.

Basarnas has also indicated a change in policy in direct response to the Australian Government's attempt to return asylum seekers.

Mr Haryadi says the country's coordinating ministry of politics, law and security has taken control of decisions around whether Australian Customs and Navy ships can enter Indonesian territory.

It is aimed at stopping Australia returning asylum seekers.

The minister responsible, Djoko Suyanto, says Indonesia has never agreed to Australia's wishes and that will not change.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...-disputes-morrison27s-asylum-seeker-b/5089706​

Well, one good thing to come out of this widening rift would be Indo not allowing Aus boats in their waters. That would keep them closer to home and hopefully able to pay more attention to asylum boats sneaking around behind them directly to the mainland.

It is so good to see you taking an interest in border protection Whiskers but where were you prior to September 7?

You were no where to be seen or heard.

 

[sails]

So Rudd's PNG policy is working then as its not Abbotts?

You know as well as the rest of us, IF, that Rudd did not invent offshore processing. He was the one who closed it down and did nothing about it until he copied part of the coalition's policy just before the election.

And yet you continue to peddle your silly theory that offshore processing was Rudd's policy...

 

[drsmith]

Basarnas's head of evaluations, Yopi Haryadi, says the boat was intercepted by Australian authorities 107 nautical miles from Indonesia, or about half way to Christmas Island.

It was then taken by Australian authorities to a location about 58 nautical miles off the coast as Australia attempted to get Indonesia to accept its return.

Mr Morrison released a statement this evening saying the incident was a search-and-rescue operation and not a turn-back operation, adding that the initial contact was 43 nautical miles south of Java.

He added Australian authorities tried to take rescued people to the closest place of safety, which was Indonesia.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...-disputes-morrison27s-asylum-seeker-b/5089706

That's not what Indonesia's search and rescue agency was saying last week,

Indonesian authorities have confirmed a distress call was received from a boat, carrying about 56 people, which had reported engine trouble in the early hours of Thursday morning.

A spokesman for the Indonesian search and rescue agency, BASARNAS, said the boat was about 60 nautical miles off the south coast of Java when contact was made with authorities.

The official said that discussions were underway to organise offloading the asylum seekers in Indonesia, after earlier suggesting they would be escorted to Christmas Island.

It's understood HMAS Ballarat initially responded to the distress call and that an Australian Customs vessel later became involved in the operation.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...fe-off-indonesia/story-fn3dxix6-1226755226666

Adi Fachroni Azis, the deputy officer in charge at Indonesian search and rescue agency Basarnas, confirmed that Australia had originally made the call to return the passengers to Indonesia.

Mr Adi said the Australian Rescue Coordination Centre had notified the Indonesians of a distress call from a wooden asylum seeker boat about 57 nautical miles south of Indonesia about 9.30am AEDT on Thursday morning.

The boat had reported engine trouble. But when HMAS Ballarat arrived about three hours later, the crew found the engine was in working order, so the Australian navy vessel sailed away.

''After they left, the engine apparently really was broken,'' Mr Adi said.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-seeker-boat-to-indonesia-20131107-2x4qs.html

My bolds.

 

[drsmith]

One of the consequences I warned off earlier was a change of strategy by the smugglers to get around the navy intercept and turn or tow back policy was for them to go smaller and sneakier and go straight for the Aus mainland like they did in the early days.

That's obviously a much bigger risk of bringing in exotic pests and diseases that would threaten our agricultural exports and overload our health system with unforseen outbreaks of disease... not to mention criminals and terrorists.

If boats have made it too the mainland, it's obviously a double whammy... found guilty of being obsessed with a dumb head on tactic that was never going to work and leaving the flank exposed in the meantime.

When you start looking at these issues from the national best interest test perspective rather than just a political party's best interest... you might see the relevance and significance.

You argue from the perspective of trying to manage boat arrivals, not prevent them.

If they are prevented, then crazy personal decisions such as resisting rescue from a floundering boat will be avoided.

Basarnas would mount an operation to evacuate the remaining people on the boat, which still had power but had lost steering, Mr Fery said.

A spokesman had earlier said that the rescue effort would be abandoned due to bad weather and darkness.

He said a number of the asylum seekers on board had initially refused to be evacuated.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...at-sinking-off-java-coast-20131113-2xgq6.html

 

[Whiskers]

You argue from the perspective of trying to manage boat arrivals, not prevent them.

Clearly I was arguing to prevent boats arriving directly on Aus mainland.

That is by far the worst case scenario for serious pest and disease destroying our agricultural industries.

Managing boat arrivals MUST also be the strong second string, rather than taking their eye off the ball leaving the back door/flank completely exposed to boats arriving directly on the mainland while obsessed with other dumb policies.

After all they did happily broadcast they were going to get up in the face of Indonesia. Regardless that they try to blackout the media information on ongoing operations... they unwittingly happily told the smugglers where their ongoing operations would be weak or non existent, where we would be vulnerable.

 

[Boggo]

Got to be considered I guess !!

 

[Whiskers]

Got to be considered I guess !!

No doubt about your wit and humour Boggo!

True! It's not all as cut and dried as we often like to think.

 

[drsmith]

Clearly I was arguing to prevent boats arriving directly on Aus mainland.

Labor weren't much chop at that either.

One even got to Geraldton.

Got to be considered I guess !!

That did the rounds some time ago and offers the obvious historical perspective.

It doesn't offer much though in the context of a solution to the present situation.

 

[Whiskers]

Labor weren't much chop at that either.

One even got to Geraldton.

Yes, but the reason Abbott is getting so much flack is he reckoned he would do sooo much better.

But as I keep reminding you, he is in the hot seat NOW, the buck stops with him... but he's passing the 'buck' more than ever with more secrecy, misinformation and controversy with Indonesia than when Gillard stopped the live cattle trade and blaming everyone but themselves.

 

[drsmith]

In terms of numbers, it will be interesting to see what tomorrow's Operation Sovereign Borders briefing reveals.

Since last Friday's briefing, there are three lots of arrivals known. Two at Xmas Island and one at Darwin. The two Xmas Islands arrivals were about 60 and 40 each. For the Darwin arrival, reports have been either 20 or 60 therein.

If it's 60, the total for the week would be about 160 as it currently stands. Whilst obviously disappointing in comparison to two weeks of no arrivals, it's still a lot lower arrival rate than we were seeing under Labor.

A fourth boat load close to the Indonesian coast was rescued yesterday by Indonesian authorities and remain in Indonesia.

Meanwhile, in its discussions with Australia, Indonesia now wants to reduce its maritime SAR zone.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...nesia-to-change-the-rules-20131113-2xh0v.html

It seems that in Indonesia's public campaign at least, they're coming up with something new every 5-minutes while our government overall is being much more disciplined in its approach to these discussions.

 

[trainspotter]

Labor weren't much chop at that either.

One even got to Geraldton.

Careful Doc ... too close to home. This one got swept under the carpet REAL QUICK! Something DEFINITELY not right with this scenario. Let's assume they left around Surabaya area and motored all the way with the 3 cylinder Lister diesel on board cruising at 5 knots shall we. Surabaya is approx 2500kms away in a straight line. Therefore a minimum voyage of 2 weeks is in order. 66 people for 2 weeks on a 30 foot boat? Let's get back to the fuel situation shall we? 3 litres per hour at 5 knots is being very very generous as it was a clunky old boat and not a Yanmar engine btw. Soooooooooooo ... over 1000 litres of diesel burned along the way?

Hmmmmmmm ... something fishy here !

 

[drsmith]

On the spying claims in relation to Indonesia,

Indonesia called in Australia's ambassador to register its displeasure, and later refused to accept a boat load of asylum-seekers rescued in its search and rescue zone.

Mr Abbott told the ABC's 7.30 program last night that the "so-called spying" had taken place under the former Labor government.

He discussed the matter with Indonesian Vice-President Boediono in Canberra this week, noting the issue had caused concern in Indonesia.

The pair came to an in-principle agreement to strengthen intelligence co-operation at an official level.

Dr Boediono said Canberra and Jakarta should not spy on one another and said he hoped a new information-sharing arrangement could be worked out. "The public in Indonesia is concerned about this," Dr Boediono said.

"I think we must look forward in this case." Dr Boediono, who took questions after a lecture at the Australian National University, said a new system needed to ensure that intelligence information from both sides "will not be used against the other.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...tony-abbott-says/story-fn59nm2j-1226759695572

My bolds.

Careful Doc ... too close to home. This one got swept under the carpet REAL QUICK! Something DEFINITELY not right with this scenario. Let's assume they left around Surabaya area and motored all the way with the 3 cylinder Lister diesel on board cruising at 5 knots shall we. Surabaya is approx 2500kms away in a straight line. Therefore a minimum voyage of 2 weeks is in order. 66 people for 2 weeks on a 30 foot boat? Let's get back to the fuel situation shall we? 3 litres per hour at 5 knots is being very very generous as it was a clunky old boat and not a Yanmar engine btw. Soooooooooooo ... over 1000 litres of diesel burned along the way?

Hmmmmmmm ... something fishy here !

The boat carrying 66 Sri Lankan passengers was apparently at sea for 44 days and travelled 5000km.

http://www.news.com.au/national/asy...s-into-geraldton/story-e6frfkp9-1226615986980

 

[trainspotter]

The boat carrying 66 Sri Lankan passengers was apparently at sea for 44 days and travelled 5000km.

http://www.news.com.au/national/asy...s-into-geraldton/story-e6frfkp9-1226615986980

Treble my numbers then and it gets very smelly indeed !

 

[drsmith]

Treble my numbers then and it gets very smelly indeed !

What exactly are you thinking ?

 

[trainspotter]

What exactly are you thinking ?

Who was the "sponsor" written all over the side of the boat?

 

[drsmith]

Who was the "sponsor" written all over the side of the boat?

IIRC, it was a donation in the aftermath of the 2003 tsunami.

One other interesting calculation is that for fresh water. I'm not sure exactly how much fresh water an individual on a small boat in the tropics would need, but 1 litre per person per day for 66 people over 44 days equates to 2904 litres.

 

[trainspotter]

IIRC, it was a donation in the aftermath of the 2003 tsunami.

One other interesting calculation is that for fresh water. I'm not sure exactly how much fresh water an individual on a small boat in the tropics would need, but 1 litre per person per day for 66 people over 44 days equates to 2904 litres.

Seems odd they chose to leave the "sponsor" name on the vessel as such an identifiable tag glaring out for all to see? If they wanted to go into stealth mode to avoid Customs etc surely this would have been removed? Anyways just another conspiracy theory

3 tonne of water along with 3 tonne of fuel for such a journey and they were "allegedly" on their way to New Zealand. Very fishy IMO. Back to the food logistics ... similar amount in weight required to feed that many people as well (assuming). 66 people lets say approx 60 kilos each = 4 tonne or thereabouts. Therefore 3 tonne fuel + 3 tonne of water + 3 tonne of food + 4 tonne of human cargo = doesn't add up?

 

[Whiskers]

Seems odd they chose to leave the "sponsor" name on the vessel as such an identifiable tag glaring out for all to see? If they wanted to go into stealth mode to avoid Customs etc surely this would have been removed? Anyways just another conspiracy theory

If customs or the navy caught sight of them in our waters it wouldn't matter if the boat wore a sponsors badge, a sexy name or dressed up like a drag queen... they would investigate everyone. Once they are spotted on radar or visual it's game over whatever their close up makeup is.

3 tonne of water along with 3 tonne of fuel for such a journey and they were "allegedly" on their way to New Zealand. Very fishy IMO. Back to the food logistics ... similar amount in weight required to feed that many people as well (assuming). 66 people lets say approx 60 kilos each = 4 tonne or thereabouts. Therefore 3 tonne fuel + 3 tonne of water + 3 tonne of food + 4 tonne of human cargo = doesn't add up?

Probably not so fishy when you consider they probably catch fish or shark for most of their food.

Even without catching fish, 66 people could survive on 2 tonne of food and water combined per month (500 ml water and 500g rice and veg per day) . After all they are only given bare essentials to survive the trip. They are not eating gourmet class are they!

Didn't some of the earlier boats sometimes have makeshift sails to help with power.

Does add up to why so many break down or break up at sea.

 

[drsmith]

So Rudd's PNG policy is working then as its not Abbotts?

As you like to squawk on about Rudd's PNG policy, what about a response to this,

If Kevin Rudd's quick election solution is working so well in isolation, why did Labor wait so long to implement such a solution ?

Why did Labor wait after the arrivals first resumed after Kevin Rudd dismantled the Howard government's policies ?

Why did labor wait under Julia Gillard as the arrival rate grew and grew ?

Why did Labor wait for over 50,000 arrivals and over 1,000 deaths at sea to act ?

The answer is simple.

Labor's heart is not in solving the problem it created. The huge cost and loss of live is nothing to this morally bankrupt party.

Kevin Rudd belated action was more of an election stunt than it was anything else. Even the funding to support it ran out post January 2014.

I'll add to that the $11bn cost and counting.

These questions are clearly too difficult for you to answer as they are for Labor.

 

[drsmith]

Operation Sovereign Borders weekly update Friday November 15:

3 boats carrying 163 passengers. There were also 31 voluntary returns to country of origin from Nauru and Manus Island.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-15/morrison-weekly-update/5094630

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/operation-sovereign-borders.asp

Summary of arrivals since this government was elected:

08/09/2013 to 18/09/2013 (caretaker period prior to swearing in): 475 passengers on 7 boats.
Remainder of the week to Monday 23/09/2013: 31 passengers on 1 boat.
Week to Monday 30/09/2013: 95 passengers on 3 boats.
Remainder of the week to Friday 04/10/2013: 79 passengers on 1 boat.
Week to Friday 11/10/2013: No boats.
Week to Friday 18/10/2013: 173 passengers on 3 boats.
Week to Friday 25/10/2013: 166 passengers on 2 boats.
Week to Friday 1/11/2013: No boats.
Week to Friday 8/11/2013: No boats.
Week to Friday 15/11/2013: 163 passengers on 3 boats.

Totals since the commencement of Operation Sovereign Borders:

707 passengers on 13 boats over 8 weeks.