AMP - AMP Limited

[Junior]

The value of all Branding isn't what it used to be, the modern market can be very fickle.

Especially in financial services.

"The big 4 banks and AMP" have a terrible reputation that won't turn around any time soon, in my opinion. AMP should be broken up in some way and the profitable parts of their business repackaged & branded.

I find it interesting when groups set up new super funds and try to give them a 'fun' name and colourful marketing, when in reality, the majority of super fund products really are very similar. eg. https://smartmonday.com.au https://www.spaceship.com.au/

Spaceship go to great lengths to brag about investing in tech. The fact is they use ETFs & Index funds and charge you administration fees of 0.80% for the privilege. One could easily set up a similar portfolio through an SMSF or retail fund.

 

[sptrawler]

Especially in financial services.

"The big 4 banks and AMP" have a terrible reputation that won't turn around any time soon, in my opinion. AMP should be broken up in some way and the profitable parts of their business repackaged & branded.

I find it interesting when groups set up new super funds and try to give them a 'fun' name and colourful marketing, when in reality, the majority of super fund products really are very similar. eg. https://smartmonday.com.au https://www.spaceship.com.au/

Spaceship go to great lengths to brag about investing in tech. The fact is they use ETFs & Index funds and charge you administration fees of 0.80% for the privilege. One could easily set up a similar portfolio through an SMSF or retail fund.

I think I will be off loading the remainder this week, Junior.
There is probably two nickel and alumina cycles, before AMP are either buried, or rise from the dead.IMO

 

[Junior]

I think I will be off loading the remainder this week, Junior.
There is probably two nickel and alumina cycles, before AMP are either buried, or rise from the dead.IMO

The other side of the argument: https://www.allangray.com.au/b/swimming-against-the-tide-why-we-invest-in-amp/

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

The other side of the argument: https://www.allangray.com.au/b/swimming-against-the-tide-why-we-invest-in-amp/

Someone has let young Allan Gray loose with a PC and an Excel spreadsheet down a very dark and deep hole with only one power point. He needs a powerful lamp and lift up in to the real world.

gg

 

[peter2]

The AllanGray article is interesting in that the "analyst" assumed that the "AMP Life" business would be sold and hasn't considered that it wouldn't be in his "how bad could things get" paragraph. So already things are worse than they thought, plus price has fallen further. They're in a hole and they keep digging.

Also good to see the RBNZ getting tougher on the Aust financial companies in light of their performance exposed by the Royal Commission and the poor enforcement by the Aust regulators.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

The AllanGray article is interesting in that the "analyst" assumed that the "AMP Life" business would be sold and hasn't considered that it wouldn't be in his "how bad could things get" paragraph. So already things are worse than they thought, plus price has fallen further. They're in a hole and they keep digging.

Also good to see the RBNZ getting tougher on the Aust financial companies in light of their performance exposed by the Royal Commission and the poor enforcement by the Aust regulators.

To be honest I'm sorry I never started off at age 18 flogging insurance that people didn't need and then morphed in to an Analyst.

gg

 

[Junior]

The AllanGray article is interesting in that the "analyst" assumed that the "AMP Life" business would be sold and hasn't considered that it wouldn't be in his "how bad could things get" paragraph. So already things are worse than they thought, plus price has fallen further. They're in a hole and they keep digging.

Also good to see the RBNZ getting tougher on the Aust financial companies in light of their performance exposed by the Royal Commission and the poor enforcement by the Aust regulators.

Yes agreed. Also, a few months ago, AMP closed down their Life insurance products to new customers.....the product has become a little toxic. I can't imagine they would want to ditch the Resolution deal at this point.

 

[So_Cynical]

I pointed out the Allan Grey position back in May,

Anyway interesting that Allan Gray did jump in a little early (isn't hindsight wonderful) and started buying AMP at around the 3.50 mark in Sept 18 and have just kept on
adding to their position...its what they do, average in and capture the bottom.

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Allan Grey looks to have got this trade wrong, will turn out to be another APN for them i reckon.

 

[Junior]

I pointed out the Allan Grey position back in May,

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Allan Grey looks to have got this trade wrong, will turn out to be another APN for them i reckon.

I'm more worried about the advice business than anything else. Look what happened with the big 4, they paid out a vast fortune in 'remediation', and end up with businesses worth f-all compared to pre-Royal Commission.

I know advisers with both BT and with NAB-aligned practices. Internal compliance processes completely crippled their ability to provide advice to clients. The licensee want to see and vet every advice document before it goes out to a client, but their turnaround times for vetting can blow out to months! So a client is waiting on a simple retirement plan for example.....and it never arrives. Advisers are walking away from these institutions because it has become impossible to function under this regime.

No one at ASIC or in these compliance departments have ever sat in front of clients or given advice, yet these guys are making the rules, and all they care about is public perception and avoiding negative headlines.

AMP isn't even at that stage yet, their advisers are still able to operate and work for their clients, but their remediation program is only in the very early stages......so we'll see. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

 

[Smurf1976]

No one at ASIC or in these compliance departments have ever sat in front of clients or given advice, yet these guys are making the rules, and all they care about is public perception and avoiding negative headlines.

That's essentially the problem in the public service about which many complain indirectly.

Terrified of negative perceptions and the media and the surest way to make sure that doesn't happen is to simply hand everything to someone else and so that's exactly what they do.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Many people believe at this point in time that AMP is "worth" $1.79

I enclose a daily chart over the past month.

It's been a bad month for AMP.

Many of our Fundamentalist members including Allan Grey are crunching the numbers on this little beastie.

And what of the unknown, unknowns.....

I wonder what the tea-lady knows that nobody else does as this is a total down spiral of a once great company continues.

 

[sptrawler]

Well I off loaded, the last tranche today and loaded up on nickel, We will see how that goes.
Hopefully not as badly as usual, I normally have a knack of picking the bottom, the same can't be said for the top.

 

[sptrawler]

Many people believe at this point in time that AMP is "worth" $1.79

Unfortunately GG, AMP is worth what the next news report delivers.
If it is good news it stops the slide, if it is bad news, the slide continues only the rate of decline changes.
I have bailed out because IMO someone has to get a real spanking, who that is no one knows, but everyone has to make a judgement.
What do I say? Allow for the worst, hope for the best.
I think nickel will recover my money, before AMP does.
Hopefully.

 

[sptrawler]

AMP to do a capital raising at 15.7% reduction to the $1.78 closing price, could be the start of a turn around, not for the faint hearted. IMO. Amazing journey to $1.50 capital raising, talk about destroying shareholder value, they have had a outstanding knack at doing that IMO.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/ban...l-after-2-3-billion-loss-20190808-p52ezo.html

 

[Junior]

AMP to do a capital raising at 15.7% reduction to the $1.78 closing price, could be the start of a turn around, not for the faint hearted. IMO. Amazing journey to $1.50 capital raising, talk about destroying shareholder value, they have had a outstanding knack at doing that IMO.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/ban...l-after-2-3-billion-loss-20190808-p52ezo.html

At least they are having a real crack at a genuine rebuild.

I feel for long-term shareholders. Lurching from one disaster to the next.

 

[sptrawler]

At least they are having a real crack at a genuine rebuild.

I feel for long-term shareholders. Lurching from one disaster to the next.

Depending how low they go, they may well be worth a flutter, to put in the long term draw of hopefuls.
Mine is getting to overflowing.
From the SMH:
Here are the first bits of key information from AMP's result this morning.

The company has embarked on a strategy to reinvent AMP as a contemporary wealth manager. This will involve a three-year $1 billion to $1.3 billion investment program to fund growth, cost reductions and fix legacy issues.

The firm also announced a revised agreement to sell AMP Life to Resolution Life. The purchase price of $3 billion includes $2.5 billion cash and a $500 million equity interest in Resolution Life Australia.

AMP will further localise its New Zealand wealth management and explore options to divest

 

[Junior]

Depending how low they go, they may well be worth a flutter, to put in the long term draw of hopefuls.
Mine is getting to overflowing.
From the SMH:
Here are the first bits of key information from AMP's result this morning.

The company has embarked on a strategy to reinvent AMP as a contemporary wealth manager. This will involve a three-year $1 billion to $1.3 billion investment program to fund growth, cost reductions and fix legacy issues.

The firm also announced a revised agreement to sell AMP Life to Resolution Life. The purchase price of $3 billion includes $2.5 billion cash and a $500 million equity interest in Resolution Life Australia.

AMP will further localise its New Zealand wealth management and explore options to divest

Sunshine and lollipops for now. Cap raising completed at $1.60 per share.

 

[sptrawler]

View attachment 96684

Sunshine and lollipops for now. Cap raising completed at $1.60 per share.

It is a long way, back to $5.
Currently at $1.85, nice quick profit for the ones in the capital raising.

 

[Zaxon]

I closed my high interest savings account with AMP today. I don't consider them a fit and proper company to do business with. With all the fleecing of customers they found in the royal commission, and the CEO just said in an interview yesterday that he can't promise they're not still selling dodgy products to customers, I've taken a stand.

 

[sptrawler]

I closed my high interest savings account with AMP today. I don't consider them a fit and proper company to do business with. With all the fleecing of customers they found in the royal commission, and the CEO just said in an interview yesterday that he can't promise they're not still selling dodgy products to customers, I've taken a stand.

I bought in when they sold off the U.K division, I thought they had cleaned out all the bad practices then due to the amount of provisioning they had to do, how wrong you can be. IMO
36m shares traded already today, 10% above the cap raising price, nice profit.
The second biggest mistake I did was not sell them about a year ago, when I was re jigging the portfolio, the first biggest mistake was buying them in the first place.