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kennas said:
Gents,

You both seem to be sure that we can't lead a good life if we don't follow a religion and that the world would be an unethical, crazy place without a God sitting in judgement. It's a big call when we haven't had the opportunity to actually live God free yet. Although, I can not see that ever happening. It's the greatest ever human invention.

IMHO a better approach would be to come up with an ethical, logical, just, set of laws relating to how human beings can best live on the planet in harmony and where the 'good' is what is 'good' for the greatest number. A life lived in this world, not for life after death. I think we're wasting our time on this rock as soon as we start preparing for an afterworld. Heaven was invented as a means of encouraging people to follow the laws of the day, and to make them feel warm and fuzzy in the face of the one certainty of life: Death. I don't need to be good so I get to heaven. I will be good, so that the people around me live a good live, which ultimately leads to my life being good. It's that simple.

While we continue to believe in a supernatural diety out in the cosmos interrferring in the Earths natural state, and judging people for their worthiness to get into heaven, the world will continue to be in the diabolical state it is now. Obviously, the religions we have now have flaws in them or they are used in a way to cause unwarranted pain, death and destruction. Examples of some of the atrocities committed by each of the religions of the book are scattered throughout this thread. Athough, who can say that we wouldn't be doing these things anyway! We are all trying to survive in some way. Some better than others and thus, conflict.

If there was a God as described in the religions of the book, why is he allowing most of the world to go on in disbelief and suffering. The 'you have to have faith' line does not wash for me because it's just an easy way to convince people of something without providing proof. It's the ultimate placebo actually.

So, who is my God? Humanity is my God. Let's find the right human laws that are best for us in this life and worship those.

But, maybe I'm going to hell......
Click to expand...


Kennas

Thanks for expressing my own thoughts so well. I simply don't understand why people need some God dictating right and wrong to them. From the quotes taken from the Bible and the Koran in this thread, it seems clear that this God/Gods are putting out some pretty mixed messages anyway, so it's a bit tough for anyone trying to decipher some moral code from either of these esteemed publications.

How complicated does it need to be to simply treat others with honesty, courtesy and basic decency?

Oh, and perhaps we could add "desist from being more irritating than a nest of ants".

Julia
 
professor_frink said:
bullmarket,
Before you repeated this again for about the fifth time, I wasn't sure if you were unintelligent or just mildly annoying. Now I know. I was finding your argument amusing before you started repeating it over and over again. It's almost like a small child having an argument with one of their kindergarten friends. " I know you are but what am I" repeated over and again until one grows tired of it and quits. Alright I'm over it.

Saying the same thing repeatedly is one way to wear down someone during a discussion, and if that makes you feel better then good for you. The fact that you aren't well liked on these boards should give you an indication that this method of arguing isn't going down well with others, and it would be best to stop.
Now I know your going to say "you haven't given me verifiable proof that no one likes me", but you'll just have to take my word for it on this one.

The sad thing is bullmarket, there have been numerous discussions on these forums that you have highjacked with this childish method of arguing, and it ends up driving people away. It's now at the stage where a discussion can go on, and people with opposing views can have a reasonable discussion about them until you show up. Then we might as well close the thread down and wait for you to destroy the next discussion. Just like this thread.
Click to expand...

Professor Frink,

Your above comments are an excellent summary of one of the most immature posters ever encountered on any forum. Without the disingenous interruptions, this could have been a genuinely interesting and constructive discussion, but once again it has degenerated into a pathetic squabble amongst which the essence of the topic has been lost.

I, for one, am totally fed up with your behaviour, bullmarket.

Julia
 
bullmarket said:
just calling it as I see it ;)

cheers

bullmarket :)
Click to expand...
Bull , It seems that you don't care WHAT others think of you on this forum.
Huge amount of posts by you, some ok, most are doctrinaire :eek: this is sad as you could have used your limited gifts to empower some.

Is it ego that creats emulation ?

Take care of yourself .
Bob.
 
Hi Julia ;)

you keep saying you don't like my posts, and that's fine but I have suggested on more than 1 occasion that you put me on your ignore list and yet you still read my posts and send posts to me.

So as far as I can tell my posts aren't as annoying to you as you say they are otherwise why keep repeating the same whinges to me instead of adding me to your ignore list ;) :confused:

cheers

bullmarket :)

back to the world cup so I'll see you in the soup tomorrow :)
 
hey guys,
what is this ignore list I have heared about?? does it stop us from seeing people that we have on it?

If so, mabey we could all do a Mass ignore list on BM effectively putting him further into his own little tunel vision world.
I see the light :aliena:
Click to expand...
oops sorry bout that, just walking in bm's shoes for a sec.
Anyway,
We would be happy as we wouldnt see him and he would be happy as we wouldnt reply.... which could only mean that his storys are so air tight that no one could possibly argue :rolleyes:
 
Hey Guys, just a friendly reminder to try and stick to the topic of this thread, there are a lot of unrelated posts and personal digs now which is very disappointing. This is a group of very intelligent people and there's nothing wrong with a difference of opinion but I'm sure no one wants to see a whole thread of personal digs and attacks.

So the way I see it is if everyone start submitting posts relevent to this thread we can keep it to an open an interesting discussion, otherwise we can consider closing the thread. I am happy with either solution.

Joe has suggested use of the Ignore feature before, to ignore a user please go to this URL: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/account/ and add the person's username under the ignore list.
 
Yes, it seems another thread has degenerated into petty bickering and gone waaaaay off topic.

Come on people, I am asking everyone to be proactive in avoiding conflict. If someone's posts annoy you then either ignore them or add that person to your ignore list. It's really very simple. Responding to that person merely makes things worse, drags everything out and then the thread ends up like this.

:banghead:

Remember that forums are as frustrating or as rewarding as you want to make them. Ultimately, it's your choice.
 
Julia said:
I am frankly more concerned about the madness of politically correct behaviour which has seen the Gideon Bibles removed from hospital bedsides, just in case they might offend any Muslim who should occupy the bed!!
If we were admitted to hospital in a Muslim country, would we be offended at finding the Koran in the bedside drawer? No, of course not.
I have no personal interest in the Bible, but we should not be so sycophantic towards other religions that we remove it from our hospitals.

Julia
Click to expand...
Just in the interests of an informed society, MediaWatch looked at this story on 5 June and discovered that it was a beatup at best. It started with the Herald Sun in Melbourne and was picked up all over the country, but the hospitals cited in Victoria and Queensland deny that there is any new policy about bibles in bedside tables, say that bibles are available on request, and in one case quoted by MediaWatch claim that the Brisbane paper grossly misrepresented them (my words).

The MediaWatch transcript is here http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1655732.htm

It has links to other documents in the case.

Hope that makes you feel a little better?
 
ghotib said:
Just in the interests of an informed society, MediaWatch looked at this story on 5 June and discovered that it was a beatup at best. It started with the Herald Sun in Melbourne and was picked up all over the country, but the hospitals cited in Victoria and Queensland deny that there is any new policy about bibles in bedside tables, say that bibles are available on request, and in one case quoted by MediaWatch claim that the Brisbane paper grossly misrepresented them (my words).

The MediaWatch transcript is here http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1655732.htm

It has links to other documents in the case.

Hope that makes you feel a little better?
Click to expand...

The bibles that were found in bedsides tables ,are now available on request,but you never had to request them before they were there if you ever needed them.Sometimes just having the bible there gave people peace of mind or extra comfort,without thinking about asking
 
macca said:
Wayne,

Living where you do I can understand that you don't feel as threatened by terrorists as those who live in the city.

In parts of Sydney the racial hatred on the faces of some "Eastern European" young males, for people who are not of eastern european appearance is quite frightening.

They do like to drive around in western cars, playing western music at mega decibels and wearing western clothes BUT they absolutely HATE any other race.

Their treatment of any female who is not dressed according to their beliefs is disgusting.

People go about their daily lives living in fear any time they see a group of these guys nearby. It is this situation that needed the new laws so that the powers that be can actually keep them in line.

I know that it is a small minority of the people but that small minority probably numbers a couple of thousand people. When they are out and about, as young people tend to be, they really do strike fear into the hearts of most women near them.

It is sad that we needed to have these laws BUT they are a REACTION to what has already happened in society, not some secret scheme.

Sad but true :(
Click to expand...
Well I live in Sydney very close to two of the parts that you might mean. I've encountered some of the mobs of young men you probably mean, and speaking as a smallish, not particularly fit woman I agree that they are very intimidating.

But they're not the only ones. Any largish group of young men, including boy scouts and senior students at highly regarded private schools, is intimidating. Apart from anything else, they tend to be BIG. And even when their size isn't overwhelming, their natural moments of extreme brainlessness can lead to damage. Car accidents involving happy young men have killed and injured thousands more people than terrorist incidents in any western country I can think of.

I think it's likely enough that there'll be a terrorist incident somewhere in Australia, and I've dreamt up some scenarios for Sydney that scared me enough to change some habits and to weep on my husband's shoulder enough that he changed some of his.

However I also think that some of the laws and regulations that have been brought in as "anti-terrorist" measures are actually likely to make things worse. I don't believe that destroying legal protections for all citizens is a sane way to protect a society.

Better to find ways for all of us to meet real people from groups other than our own. That's how I get reminded all the time that brainless young men are usually kind, funny, confused, curious, HUNGRY, and good company.

Ghoti
 
visual said:
The bibles that were found in bedsides tables ,are now available on request,but you never had to request them before they were there if you ever needed them.Sometimes just having the bible there gave people peace of mind or extra comfort,without thinking about asking
Click to expand...
Some hospitals still do routinely have them at the bedsides. Some of the others changed their practices years ago for reasons to do with infection control rather than cultural differences. None of the public hospitals referred to in the recent news media have banned bibles, as the Herald Sun and the Sunday Mail claimed.

That's all according to MediaWatch. Which might be wrong, but which works very hard to be right because too many mistakes would destroy it.
 
Did you hear on the radio today about a SEX offender in prison that sued & won because he was not fed halaal fresh meat in jail .

The thousands of $ he will get will be paid by us !

Whoever let this happen will answer to the Aussie tax payer I hope :mad:

muslems eat halaal meat.

Bob.
 
Julia said:
Kennas

Thanks for expressing my own thoughts so well. I simply don't understand why people need some God dictating right and wrong to them. From the quotes taken from the Bible and the Koran in this thread, it seems clear that this God/Gods are putting out some pretty mixed messages anyway, so it's a bit tough for anyone trying to decipher some moral code from either of these esteemed publications.

How complicated does it need to be to simply treat others with honesty, courtesy and basic decency?

Oh, and perhaps we could add "desist from being more irritating than a nest of ants".

Julia
Click to expand...

I'm with Julia. All this perceived neccessity of believing in and worshipping some God and belonging to some religion is just unnecessary hogwash. Decent people will live their lives with integrity and consideration for others, irrespective of whether or not they believe the doctrine of Christianity or Islam or any other religion.
The idea that you can't live a decent life and be a decent person without a belief in God, or that you're a better person if you do believe in God, is completely without foundation.
Those crime bosses who are slaughtering each other in the gang wars in Melbourne....quite a few of them are Catholics who attended church, consult regularly with priests, and insist on a Christian burial after they're slain.
Kind of makes a mockery of the whole God/Christian thing doesn't it!

As Julia has correctly pointed out, the mixed messages being put out by God/gods, and also by the various religious texts, make it difficult to decipher their moral codes.
There's just too much contradiction in religion to take it seriously. The bible is a case in point.
'Thou shalt not kill' is one of the commandments in the bible. Yet when you read further into the bible you see numerous examples of it encouraging and glorifying murder.
One such example is the command "If your son is a drunkard, he should be taken outside the city gates and stoned to death".
Great stuff! Your teenage son has a night out on the town with his friends, gets drunk as teenage boys tend to do, so his penalty from you, his loving parent, is that you stone him to death!
It's this kind of ridiculous garbage that makes a mockery of the bible and it's various commands such as 'Thou shart not kill'.
I could name lots of other glaring contradictions from the bible, but I won't bother.....anyone who has studied the bible will already be well aware of these contradictions.

I know lots of decent people who don't belong to Christianity or any other religion, and don't worship any God, and yet they live decent, ethical lives and they genuinely try to help others.
I know others who are regular church goers, are always pushing the Christian/God wheelbarrow, and in their day to day lives they live without honesty, without integrity, without consideration for others, and without most of the other qualities of decent people.

The world would be a better place without religions, and some religious people would be better human beings if they focused less on religion and more on developing some integrity and decency in their personal character.

Bunyip
 
Hi bunyip

Yes I agree 100% that people can live very good lives without believing in a God - that goes without saying imo.

I also think that a lot of the perceived inconsistancies are due to some taking too literally what is written in the Bible without consideration of the context a verse was written in and the writing styles of the prophets etc at ~600BC when the Old Testament was written (as discussed in earlier posts).

But even if there are some genuine inconsistancies, that to me just means that the authors had most probably misunderstood some particular concept, culture/way of life back in those days and in no way proves there is no God.

For me, whether someone believes in God or not basically boils down to whether they believe that Jesus Christ existed and whether the miracles and preachings He gave actually happened or not......those that think Jesus Christ did not perform miracles and did not rise from the dead will most likely not believe there is a God.

Just some :2twocents food for thought to ponder:

what if there actually is a God and He requires us to have faith and belief in Him whether we live good wholesome lives in this world or not before we could have any chance of eternal life in heaven or whatever your equivalent might be.

cheers

bullmarket :)
 

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