Al Qaeda

[visual]

Yes visual, but I think they are both used when it suits us in justifying some action. We are definately more secular in the West, even though our laws are built on Christain ideals to some degree.

A bad example of the Bible being used today might be the Pope using the Bible to justify not using condoms. The Catholic Church are probably contributing a great deal to the spread of AIDS through Africa and Sth America atm.

Absolutely correct,when you combine our education and freedom of information,you get us
when you combine our Bible and their lack of education and lack of public information overall you get the Bible playing a more literal role in their life,

 

[Sean K]

We have provided quotes straight out of the Good Book Bull, that either infer or explicitly state that it is acceptable and even appropriate to kill others, with the only justifcation been that God had 'given' them the land the tribes occupied. Haven't you read the quotes? I suppose you will say that we could have made these up. You'll just have to check yourself I think. You are a laugh a minute.

 

[bullmarket]

no problem kennas

You're obviously frustrated at my pointing out earlier that what you originally posted and what is in Exodus are different. Maybe you should check your facts before posting next time

In my original post I said that I don't believe any religion promotes that killing innocent people is acceptable in any way and since you are referring to the Bible then the Commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' imo shoots down any interpretations you might have to the contrary.....it's as simple as that.

If you disagree, that's fine by me

cheers

bullmarket

 

[visual]

Bullmarket,go to the local library,borrow a copy of the koran and read it.

 

[Sean K]

Yeah, I know that Thou Shalt Not Kill and should be the end of it but I wonder why God then tells Moses at other moments that certain transgressions by people are punishable by death. And all that other stuff I quoted from Deuteronomy about the killing of women and children. And didn't God send plagues plagues that kill all the first born and even frogs into Egypt to piss off the Pharaoh.

These are some of the rules that follow the ten commandments in Chapter 21:

21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
21:13 And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he shall flee.
21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.
21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

This is a bit ambiguous isn't it? It was only a chapter ago he was saying 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' and now he's saying if you say bad words about your folkes you will be put to death? He should have stuck with the one rule I think, and not assisted the Israelites in killing so many people on the way to Palestine. He's lacking a bit of consistency and credibility Himself I reckon. If he was all powerful and omnipotent then He could have at least got the how to manual right in the first place.

 

[bullmarket]

Hi Visual, kennas

Firstly it's the Qur'an and not the koran - oh dear

Secondly, in none of my posts have I disputed the contents of the Bible, Qur'an or whatever else anyone has quoted from so I'm not sure why you want me to go read it.

I said in my original post that I don't believe any religion promotes that killing innocent people is acceptable in any way and the Commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' imo shoots down any interpretations anyone might have to the contrary.....it's as simple as that.

Now, to prove me wrong, instead of simply posting selected extracts out of context and interpreting them to suit your arguments (which imo is what terrorists do but obviously on a much larger scale and with much more devasting consequences) why not post some info that shows any authentic religious leader/authority promotes his/her religion as accepting the killing of innocent people........my says you won't come up with any.

cheers

bullmarket

 

[Sean K]

How about the Spanish Inquisition, the burning of witches, and the sacrifice of first borns to God. Yes, that really did happen for a time. I can't provide photgraphic evidence unfortunately.

 

[professor_frink]

Firstly it's the Qur'an and not the koran - oh dear

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koran

The Qur'an (Arabic pronunciation), (Arabic: قرآن "recitation", also transliterated as Quran, Koran, and Alcoran, Turkish Kur'an).

Don't worry visual you were right. Both are acceptable


Oh dear indeed!

 

[Sean K]

But I suppose your point about 'innocent' people holds, because the church leaders at the time genuinely thought that these people were evil. That was enough justification to kill them. Same for the Crusaders and Al Qaeda. They do what they do because they believe that people need to be punished, or killed for not being the right religion.

 

[bullmarket]

Hi PF

I should have addressed this post to you as well

I said in my original post that I don't believe any religion promotes that killing innocent people is acceptable in any way and the Commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' imo shoots down any interpretations anyone might have to the contrary.....it's as simple as that.

Now, to prove me wrong, instead of simply posting selected extracts out of context and interpreting them to suit your arguments (which imo is what terrorists do but obviously on a much larger scale and with much more devasting consequences) why not post some info that shows any authentic religious leader/authority promotes his/her religion as accepting the killing of innocent people........my says you won't come up with any.

cheers

bullmarket

 

[professor_frink]

21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.

What exactly is the context of that then?

 

[bullmarket]

Hi PF

Without seeing the rest of wherever that came from I have no idea

But if you want to prove my view from my original post is wrong then instead of simply posting selected extracts out of context and interpreting them to suit your arguments (which imo is what terrorists do but obviously on a much larger scale and with much more devasting consequences) why not post some info that shows any authentic religious leader/authority promotes his/her religion as accepting the killing of innocent people........my says you won't come up with any.

cheers

bullmarket

 

[Sean K]

Some more gems from Exodus Ch 22:

22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

I think I transgressed 22:19 a few years ago. After a very big night out in a country town I woke up next to a sheep.

 

[professor_frink]

Hi PF

Without seeing the rest of wherever that came from I have no idea

I thought you were religious? Shouldn't you know? You say the quotes were taken out of context yet you don't even know where they're from? Once again you have a solid basis for your argument :swear:

Oh Dear

 

[Sean K]

This is a classic from Deuteronomy Ch3:

3 So the LORD our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. 4 At that time we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them””the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. 6 We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city””men, women and children. 7 But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.

They were very bad people those women and children from Bashan.

 

[bullmarket]

Hi PF

I think your frustration is starting to show again

Since you didn't quote the source of that extract then for all I know you could have theoretically made it up......but it probably is a legitimate quote from somewhere and unless I see the rest of that 'somewhere' then I have no idea what context that extract was written in.

cheers

bullmarket

 

[professor_frink]

Hi PF

I think your frustration is starting to show again

Since you didn't quote the source of that extract then for all I know you could have theoretically made it up

Ok bullmarket I'm a liar.

Been a pleasure talking to you.

 

[Bobby]

Since you didn't quote the source of that extract then for all I know you could have theoretically made it up......but it probably is a legitimate quote from somewhere and unless I see the rest of that 'somewhere' then I have no idea what context that extract was written in.

How about this -- The cat sat on the mat !
Its a legitimate quote .

Bob.

 

[moses]

Curious you are all quoting from the Old Testament.

Unfortunately, extracts from the law of Moses in the Old Testament are irrelevant to Christianity which is based on the teaching of Jesus Christ; hence the word "new" in New Testament.

Not that that dismisses the OT as a valuable book in its own right. But it sure qualifies the way in which we are expected understand it and apply it. The fact is that those commandments to kill people are irrelevant to Christian religion today.

Unfortunately Islam never accepted Jesus Christ. This makes it difficult for them to understand the importance, power and blessing of love and grace over anger, retribution and judgment. Without love and grace, righteous zeal for law keeping soon becomes a cover for fear, hatred and murder.

We in the West who abandon our Christian roots, or who use Christianity as a cover (like GWB) for war are no better, and liable to fall into the same trap.

Moses

 

[bullmarket]

Originally Posted by bullmarket
Hi PF

I think your frustration is starting to show again

Since you didn't quote the source of that extract then for all I know you could have theoretically made it up

Hi PF

Your are now resorting to quoting only partial sentences and displaying them out of context (as per above) and so I have no reason to not believe that any previous supposed quotes you have posted are also only partial and out of context.

You could have easily quoted the source of your extract if it is legitimate but instead you choose to not disclose where it came from which is your choice but it also removes what little credibility you might have had.

Finally - to correct your extract above, what I said in total is:

Since you didn't quote the source of that extract then for all I know you could have theoretically made it up......but it probably is a legitimate quote from somewhere and unless I see the rest of that 'somewhere' then I have no idea what context that extract was written in.

cheers

bullmarket