Akmal Shaikh - China executes mentally ill Briton

[Timmy]

Here is what I said in post #40:

I am saying that I have no idea what mental illness(es) the man may have had and that a 30-minute trial is insufficient to ascertain this.

I am saying that I believe (see earlier reasoning) he was mentally ill and was incapable of knowing what he was doing and that in the absence of such intent then executing him was wrong (whether in China or anywhere else).

I am saying his trial/hearing was unfair.

I am saying I am appalled at the lack of compassion for the man, the active vilification of him as a mentally ill person, and the active vilification of mentally ill people in general displayed by some (not all) posters in this thread.

OK Julia, points 1 and 3, I think we are now in agreement.
Points 2 and 4, maybe not.

 

[Timmy]

OK to answer the other question.

I have split it into two.

I would really be grateful, Timmy, if you could answer whether you consider mental illness should excuse someone from a crime.

1. What does 'excuse' mean? If you mean is it a legitimate defence in a court, yes it is. If you mean an act is not a crime when committed by a mentally ill person, then of course not. Leave it to the lawyers to argue intent etc., I have already said I am not a lawyer and am not capable of a sensible explanation of it.

I think we could say that anyone who commits a crime could be considered to be mentally ill, if you were to take such a philosophy to an extreme.

2. Maybe there are extremists who would argue this, I am not one of them.

 

[Julia]

I am saying I am appalled at the lack of compassion for the man, the active vilification of him as a mentally ill person, and the active vilification of mentally ill people in general displayed by some (not all) posters in this thread.

To quote this in response to my comments is something I absolutely take exception to. I have not vilified the man at any stage, nor have I ever vilified anyone with mental illness. I find such a suggestion insulting in the extreme.

I could ask you, for example, if all of the Bali Nine claimed they had some form of mental illness, would you have similar compassion for them? Why could they also not garner sympathy by making such a claim?

If you look back over my posts in the many years I've been a member of ASF, you will see how often I have lamented how people with a mental illness are ignored and not valued. This dates back to governments globally deciding that people who have a mental illness should survive in the community rather than in the institutions that hitherto had given them a sense of security and ongoing treatment. The appalling results of this irresponsible decision are out there for anyone to see if they want to take a walk through the country's most squalid caravan parks which constitute the home for many people who have never received the support promised by governments. It is a national (and probably international) disgrace.

For god's sake, I have spent nearly fifteen years in a purely voluntary capacity working with such people, trying to get more funding for them so they may live a life even remotely close to that which most of us enjoy, and in the meantime, supporting them socially and emotionally. So please do not tell me that I vilify the mentally ill.

And prior to that I spent some hundreds of hours in psychiatric hospitals co-ordinating trials of anti-psychotic drugs.

I'd be interested to know what active measures you have personally taken, Timmy, on behalf of any mentally ill people.

Regarding the likely state of mind of the drug trafficker, I have in my previous post quoted the views of three medical people who all routinely deal with people with bipolar disorder. You have ignored this.

Of course, you may well know more than they do.

I am somewhat confused as to why you have singled me out for condemnation of my remarks, when as far as I can tell, others have been far stronger in what they have said, and indeed could in some cases be genuinely considered to be vilifying the mentally ill.

Even if they are, it's their right - as long as this forum allows free speech - to express such a view.

I don't propose to say anything more in response to your accusations toward me, Timmy. You can think what you like, frankly.

 

[Timmy]

Regarding the likely state of mind of the drug trafficker, I have in my previous post quoted the views of three medical people who all routinely deal with people with bipolar disorder. You have ignored this.

Julia, you sent me a PM where you brought this up, I will quote this from your PM to me, I hope you don't mind:

I have asked the question re awareness in this case of three medical people I know: a GP, a psychiatrist and a psychologist. They all say a manic phase involving psychotic detachment from reality is quite rare and that it is unlikely this would be sustained long enough to enable the planning of such a drug smuggling venture.

and I replied in my PM to you thus:

1. Unlikely does not rule it out.
2. He did not plan anything, he was simply given a suitcase to carry.

Did you not receive my PM? That is the only reasonable reason I can see why you have said I ignored this?

I don't propose to say anything more in response

Me either.