Timmy
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The lack of compassion for, and active vilification of, someone with a mental illness shown on this thread is appalling.
Akmal Shaikh - China executes mentally ill Briton
- Thread starter BradK
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After reading about this again i have a few questions.
1. "lured to China with dreams of becoming an international popstar" How was he lured? Did sony China offer him a contract? Or did a drug dealer offer him a singing career? Did he even speak Chinese?
I think the most likely case is the author of the story, made it up, to appeal to those reading, a way of liking him to you or me. They could have said he wanted to be a fire fighter, an astronaut, common dream that can be related to you or I. the bottom line is, who cares what he wanted to be?
2. If you want to move to another country, why would you take 5kg of heroin with you? sounds like he is already a rockstar. If you are muslim, then for gods sake don't take drugs, explosives, weapons because the world hates you right now. Whether you are all terrorists or not, you have to be careful.
3. Are China now a target of islamic extremists? If they are how this impact the "war on terror". If China get invloved things could get very ugly.
5. Whats the punishment for a chinese person possesing 5kg of heroin in china?
6. Is there any proof of him having bi-polar? I know the australian girl who converted to muslim to get out of the death penalty in bali, since him being muslim won't help i china, did he play the mental illness card?
Don't get me wrong, if he does have bi-polar i feel very very sorry for him and his family. I would not wish that upon my worst enemy. I question the legitamicy though.
1. "lured to China with dreams of becoming an international popstar" How was he lured? Did sony China offer him a contract? Or did a drug dealer offer him a singing career? Did he even speak Chinese?
I think the most likely case is the author of the story, made it up, to appeal to those reading, a way of liking him to you or me. They could have said he wanted to be a fire fighter, an astronaut, common dream that can be related to you or I. the bottom line is, who cares what he wanted to be?
2. If you want to move to another country, why would you take 5kg of heroin with you? sounds like he is already a rockstar. If you are muslim, then for gods sake don't take drugs, explosives, weapons because the world hates you right now. Whether you are all terrorists or not, you have to be careful.
3. Are China now a target of islamic extremists? If they are how this impact the "war on terror". If China get invloved things could get very ugly.
5. Whats the punishment for a chinese person possesing 5kg of heroin in china?
6. Is there any proof of him having bi-polar? I know the australian girl who converted to muslim to get out of the death penalty in bali, since him being muslim won't help i china, did he play the mental illness card?
Don't get me wrong, if he does have bi-polar i feel very very sorry for him and his family. I would not wish that upon my worst enemy. I question the legitamicy though.
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If it was member of any of our families we would do whatever we could to prevent this from happening.
Accepting that he did in fact have a mental illness, this seemed a reasonable card to play in his defence. As Julia pointed out as well as my own understanding, this would not cloud his judgement on whether this was the right or wrong thing to do. Certainly it could impact on what he perceived his chances of getting away with it.
A 30 minute trial seems pretty quick to establish guilt or innocence when deciding someones life.
IF he in fact carried the heroin, and IF the trial was fair, and IF the penalty for this offence is death, then the law has been carried out. I say "IF" only because I don't know the facts, not that I am questioning what happened.
Accepting that he did in fact have a mental illness, this seemed a reasonable card to play in his defence. As Julia pointed out as well as my own understanding, this would not cloud his judgement on whether this was the right or wrong thing to do. Certainly it could impact on what he perceived his chances of getting away with it.
A 30 minute trial seems pretty quick to establish guilt or innocence when deciding someones life.
IF he in fact carried the heroin, and IF the trial was fair, and IF the penalty for this offence is death, then the law has been carried out. I say "IF" only because I don't know the facts, not that I am questioning what happened.
Timmy
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I think your points may remain the one voice of reason on this tabloid thread.
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It's not that he has a illness, Timmy. It's the fact that they were using it as an excuse. As Julia said. Bipolar hardly makes you incaple of knowing what's going on around you.
it's kind of like saying Asthma made me do it
Timmy
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Sam - with a 30-minute trial I don't think anyone can conclude he had intent (mentally impaired) or not.
Re: Jamal Sikh - China executes mentally ill Briton
Timmy, had all the drugs he was transporting got on the the streets of China would you have the same compassion to all the people who would have used the drugs. If the whole world would do what China has done we may slow down this drug trade.
Timmy, had all the drugs he was transporting got on the the streets of China would you have the same compassion to all the people who would have used the drugs. If the whole world would do what China has done we may slow down this drug trade.
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Fair enough.
My issue is with using his 'mental-state' as an excuse.
nothing else.
My issue is with using his 'mental-state' as an excuse.
nothing else.
Timmy
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Fair enough.
My issue is with using his 'mental-state' as an excuse.
nothing else.
Sorry guys, IF he was mentally ill (and I believe he was, and in the absence of a fair trial it can remain only a belief) then executing him is the wrong thing to do.
Pilots, I believe (the bold part) may be a straw man argument (those better versed in rhetoric can let me know if it is some device other than a straw man).
Timmy I'm going to have to disagree with you to a certain extent here.
There doesn't seem to be any doubt that he was caught in possession of the drugs, so why do the Chinese need to establish intent?
He broke their laws and they punished him to the full extent of their laws, so I don't see why the Chinese have to justify themselves to any other Country. Even if the Chinese had established he did have bipolar I doubt very much that would have stopped him being executed.
I agree with Julia & Sam bipolar or depression is hardly an excuse to smuggle 4kg of drugs into a country. While he was probably in a dark place and easily coerced the same could be said about some of the Bali 9. Still need to suffer the consequences to their actions.
We are getting extremely soft imo, any excuse to justify our poor choices will do it seems.
Timmy
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Leave it to the lawyers to explain that to you.
lol, come on Timmy, this is China we're talking about.
If he was caught smuggling the drugs in I still don't see why China need to establish intent, surely by having the drugs on him there was intent to smuggle them in?
If he was caught in the same circumstances smuggling the dope into Oz surely he would have been convicted here? No doubt the penalty wouldn't have been anywhere near as harsh though.
Timmy
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Sorry 4s - I am no lawyer and am not capable of explaining the importance of intent ... let alone knowing how this may apply in China.
But I do know that executing the mentally ill, for a crime that they may not know they are committing (and in the absence of a fair trial I am giving the man the benefit of the doubt) is wrong. As is cheering the executioners on. In China, or anywhere else.
But I do know that executing the mentally ill, for a crime that they may not know they are committing (and in the absence of a fair trial I am giving the man the benefit of the doubt) is wrong. As is cheering the executioners on. In China, or anywhere else.
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but his mental state isn't really an issue because bipolar isn't mind altering etc...
mood swings is hardly a defence
Sheesh, my wife would be importing drugs if it was, lol
mood swings is hardly a defence
Sheesh, my wife would be importing drugs if it was, lol
Timmy
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Big difference between an ILLNESS and being drunk/high.
Big difference between a fair trail and a 30-minute trial too - especially for a capital offense.
mood swings is hardly a defence
Sheesh, my wife would be importing drugs if it was, lol
hahaha, mine too
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Are you saying that bi-polar can be a plausible defence for importing 4kgs of Heroin, Timmy?
I strongly agree with that point. Basically what China has said, is your life is valued at a 30 min assesment. That is a bit of a joke.
Timmy
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I am saying that I have no idea what mental illness(es) the man may have had and that a 30-minute trial is insufficient to ascertain this.
I am saying that I believe (see earlier reasoning) he was mentally ill and was incapable of knowing what he was doing and that in the absence of such intent then executing him was wrong (whether in China or anywhere else).
I am saying his trial/hearing was unfair.
I am saying I am appalled at the lack of compassion for the man, the active vilification of him as a mentally ill person, and the active vilification of mentally ill people in general displayed by some (not all) posters in this thread.
