Resisting Climate Hysteria

[brty]

If anyone bothered to check my comments from a few years ago, you can clearly see that I was in neither camp, but a sceptic. At the time I considered that there was nowhere near enough evidence to "Prove" CC one way or the other.

However over the last few years, the number of new climate/weather records that support warming is happening is totally overwhelming. With the last 15 months being each a new record average high temperature, it is inconceivable that people are still doubting that we are on a warming trajectory.

The question of whether man made or natural is IMO mute, as a much warmer climate will have devastating effects for the human race.

There is a clear correlation between temperature and the level of CO2 in the atmosphere, whether man made or natural, so the only sensible thing to do is to drop the CO2 levels back to what they were pre industrialization, not put your head in the sand and say not enough evidence, prove this or that.

Is there any point in doing nothing until ALL the evidence is in, but it is too late to stop devastating effects from happening? No, the sensible approach is to try and do what is necessary to keep the atmosphere at a constant level according to historic records, not play with with the atmosphere as if it were a big experiment.

We should therefore be doing everything possible to drop the CO2 levels back to pre-industrial levels, but first we need to stop it from increasing.
This means green power sources, grid scale batteries, closing coal fired power stations, and encouraging Electric Vehicles and banning Internal combustion engines where ever possible.

 

[cynic]

If anyone bothered to check my comments from a few years ago, you can clearly see that I was in neither camp, but a sceptic. At the time I considered that there was nowhere near enough evidence to "Prove" CC one way or the other.

However over the last few years, the number of new climate/weather records that support warming is happening is totally overwhelming. With the last 15 months being each a new record average high temperature, it is inconceivable that people are still doubting that we are on a warming trajectory.

The question of whether man made or natural is IMO mute, as a much warmer climate will have devastating effects for the human race.

There is a clear correlation between temperature and the level of CO2 in the atmosphere, whether man made or natural, so the only sensible thing to do is to drop the CO2 levels back to what they were pre industrialization, not put your head in the sand and say not enough evidence, prove this or that.

Is there any point in doing nothing until ALL the evidence is in, but it is too late to stop devastating effects from happening? No, the sensible approach is to try and do what is necessary to keep the atmosphere at a constant level according to historic records, not play with with the atmosphere as if it were a big experiment.

We should therefore be doing everything possible to drop the CO2 levels back to pre-industrial levels, but first we need to stop it from increasing.
This means green power sources, grid scale batteries, closing coal fired power stations, and encouraging Electric Vehicles and banning Internal combustion engines where ever possible.

One of the rare occasions when I have had cause to be in disagreement with you. There are a number of concerns I have raised which appear to have been totally overlooked.

One of the my key concerns is the likelihood that the increased populace has necessitated elevated atmospheric CO2 levels, primarily for reasons of respiration.

 

[noco]

What if you're wrong and all Queenslanders have to move south because of more intense heat and flooding? How will NSW and Victoria cope with so many... hmmm... patriots?

jk, I found all the Queenslanders to be very nice people. Except for this oily Fish'n'Chip / Feng Shui master. But he's Asian so yea.


And no, it's 97% of all scientific studies on CC. Not of the 77 CC scientists. There are thousands of them. What with uni being so cheap and Masters and PhDs easy to come by.

Please show me where I wrong about those 97.5% of 77 scientists instead of making wild statements.

BTW, it is getting cooler in Townsville...Longest winter I have ever known in 45 years living here.....21/08/2016 and we still need blankets on at night...So what intense heat and flooding are you talking about and what will cause it or is that more supposition and funky talk on your part?

It is called Climate Change caused by the SUN......you know that bright light in the sky that rises from the East and sets in the West every day.

 

[luutzu]

Please show me where I wrong about those 97.5% of 77 scientists instead of making wild statements.

BTW, it is getting cooler in Townsville...Longest winter I have ever known in 45 years living here.....21/08/2016 and we still need blankets on at night...So what intense heat and flooding are you talking about and what will cause it or is that more supposition and funky talk on your part?

It is called Climate Change caused by the SUN......you know that bright light in the sky that rises from the East and sets in the West every day.

We've discussed the 97% at some length. If you still don't believe it then, nothing else will change your mind now.

Maybe part of CC is the abnormal weather pattern. That it's not always about heat or hurricane, but abnormality here, extreme wet or dry elsewhere. And that is also why, I am guessing, it is very difficult to "prove" direct causes.

Was listening to an interview where some expert was saying that hotter air in the atmosphere mean greater capacity for it to soak up moisture, ie. rain. Then when it rain, it don't just pour, it "water bomb" an entire area. Flooding towns and villages not at all designed for or expecting that kind of stormwater. Like Texas or some state recently.

So I don't know about you, but I'd like my experts to tell me what's the possible cause of all these catastrophic weather event, and what can be done to hopefully mitigate it.

Whether you believe them experts or not, at least they're trying to figure out and have enough evidence to suggest possible causes (and ways to mitigate against it).... sure as heck beats the guys who said it ain't happening, but if it is happening it is natural and nothing we can do about it - but it ain't happening because that's just how weathers are: decade, hundred, thousand-year events happening a lot in the past decade.

On the bright side, if these extreme weather happen frequently enough, the deniers will be right to say that it's just all normal and occur very frequently. New normal and what not.

 

[luutzu]

One of the rare occasions when I have had cause to be in disagreement with you. There are a number of concerns I have raised which appear to have been totally overlooked.

One of the my key concerns is the likelihood that the increased populace has necessitated elevated atmospheric CO2 levels, primarily for reasons of respiration.

yea, I know right.

Bloody humans and animals and their breathing.

Burning fossil fuel, chopping down the forests, paving all the roads, polluting the rivers and seas... that's all normal. And we wouldn't have this Co2 problem if it weren't for the breathing!

 

[cynic]

yea, I know right.

Bloody humans and animals and their breathing.

Burning fossil fuel, chopping down the forests, paving all the roads, polluting the rivers and seas... that's all normal. And we wouldn't have this Co2 problem if it weren't for the breathing!

Those things you describe are indeed quite normal to those viewing the planet from outside of the human centric perspective!

Do you happen to know what level of additional co2 would need to be present in our atmosphere to support the post industrial increase in this planet's population?

Yes! I know! Too many syllables!

 

[noco]

We've discussed the 97% at some length. If you still don't believe it then, nothing else will change your mind now.

Maybe part of CC is the abnormal weather pattern. That it's not always about heat or hurricane, but abnormality here, extreme wet or dry elsewhere. And that is also why, I am guessing, it is very difficult to "prove" direct causes.

Was listening to an interview where some expert was saying that hotter air in the atmosphere mean greater capacity for it to soak up moisture, ie. rain. Then when it rain, it don't just pour, it "water bomb" an entire area. Flooding towns and villages not at all designed for or expecting that kind of stormwater. Like Texas or some state recently.

So I don't know about you, but I'd like my experts to tell me what's the possible cause of all these catastrophic weather event, and what can be done to hopefully mitigate it.

Whether you believe them experts or not, at least they're trying to figure out and have enough evidence to suggest possible causes (and ways to mitigate against it).... sure as heck beats the guys who said it ain't happening, but if it is happening it is natural and nothing we can do about it - but it ain't happening because that's just how weathers are: decade, hundred, thousand-year events happening a lot in the past decade.

On the bright side, if these extreme weather happen frequently enough, the deniers will be right to say that it's just all normal and occur very frequently. New normal and what not.

Yes we have discussed this quite often and I asked you several times what number represented that 97.5% and you could never tell but I eventually found out about the number of 77...Are you denying this number or have you come to accept it now?

When you speak about pouring rain like a water bomb, how much rain would you need, in say, a 12 hour period to compare to a water bomb?...Can you give me a figure in inches or mm?

 

[luutzu]

Those things you describe are indeed quite normal to those viewing the planet from outside of the human centric perspective!

Do you happen to know what level of additional co2 would need to be present in our atmosphere to support the post industrial increase in this planet's population?

Yes! I know! Too many syllables!

Too much hot air too.

I heard Reagan or Bush Snr. said rice farming is just as bad as fossil fuel. Yah dood, let them not eat rice then we'll think about serious investment into clean and renewable alternatives.

Wait, did you just say that all those smoke stacks and fossil engines; all them toxic, non bio-degradable effluent from factories... those are natural? Naturally occurring phenomena?

See the issue with using too many syllables? Idiots like me can make fun of both your smart-dumbness.

 

[luutzu]

Yes we have discussed this quite often and I asked you several times what number represented that 97.5% and you could never tell but I eventually found out about the number of 77...Are you denying this number or have you come to accept it now?

When you speak about pouring rain like a water bomb, how much rain would you need, in say, a 12 hour period to compare to a water bomb?...Can you give me a figure in inches or mm?

From far away:




A supercell. Pretty. Unless you live under it.





http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/w...lls-21-in-macedonias-capital-skopje.html?_r=0

A ‘Water Bomb’ of a Storm Kills 21 in Macedonia’s Capital, Skopje

SKOPJE, Macedonia ”” A freakishly violent rainstorm that Macedonia’s top weather official called a “water bomb” ravaged Skopje during the weekend, collapsing streets, inundating vehicles and drowning trapped motorists and homeowners, most of them caught by surprise.

At least 21 people were killed and 77 injured in what officials described on Sunday as the worst flooding disaster in a half-century to hit Skopje, the Macedonian capital and a city of more than a half-million people in the central part of the Balkan Peninsula.

Officials said the death toll could rise because many people were still missing after the storm, which hit with shocking ferocity on Saturday night.

The police, army units and firefighters rescued more than 1,000 people from the raging water that flooded streets, buildings, houses, clinics and schools. Traffic in much of the city was paralyzed.
....

That particular case above quotes about 4 inches of rain. In matter of minutes or seconds? Like a bomb drop right?

 

[cynic]

Too much hot air too.

I heard Reagan or Bush Snr. said rice farming is just as bad as fossil fuel. Yah dood, let them not eat rice then we'll think about serious investment into clean and renewable alternatives.

Wait, did you just say that all those smoke stacks and fossil engines; all them toxic, non bio-degradable effluent from factories... those are natural? Naturally occurring phenomena?

See the issue with using too many syllables? Idiots like me can make fun of both your smart-dumbness.

The claims humans make to their technology being artificial, as distinct form natural, is simply humanity's vain attempt to maintain an illusion of superiority to all of nature!

Things can only truly be artificial when viewed from a strictly human perspective!

Instead of conflating CO2 with pollution, would you kindly answer the question!

 

[luutzu]

Yes we have discussed this quite often and I asked you several times what number represented that 97.5% and you could never tell but I eventually found out about the number of 77...Are you denying this number or have you come to accept it now?....

How many specialist Climate Scientists are there in the world? 97% of them said we're screwed if we keep this up.

And note that the other 3% didn't say there aren't CC. It's either they can't be sure or not certain CC is caused by human activities.

Anyway, I tend to believe scientists. I mean, the weatherman don't always get it right all the time, but the washing and the coat or no-coat do depend on their advise.

But ey, it's only life and death for hundreds of millions of people here... so let's be really really certain before we'd want to be reckless lest we end up living in cleaner world with cheaper renewable energy.

 

[luutzu]

The claims humans make to their technology being artificial, as distinct form natural, is simply humanity's vain attempt to maintain an illusion of superiority to all of nature!

Things can only truly be artificial when viewed from a strictly human perspective!

Instead of conflating CO2 with pollution, would you kindly answer the question!

Yea, I too get philosophical after a few drinks. What else you smoking there?

Dude, do I sound like a qualified climate scientist to you? If you don't believe in what those experts are telling you with their decades of research, what magic mushroom would I have to sell to you that would make you believe my saying so?

 

[cynic]

Yea, I too get philosophical after a few drinks. What else you smoking there?

Dude, do I sound like a qualified climate scientist to you? If you don't believe in what those experts are telling you with their decades of research, what magic mushroom would I have to sell to you that would make you believe my saying so?

If you think those "experts" are so knowledgable, then why do my very basic questions remain unanswered?

 

[luutzu]

If you think those "experts" are so knowledgable, then why do my very basic questions remain unanswered?

No idea Monk.

Maybe they're busy and have no time answering another adult saying "If you're so smart, what's 2 plus 3! Aha!"

I know, bloody nerds and their smug arrogance.

 

[noco]

From far away:




A supercell. Pretty. Unless you live under it.





http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/w...lls-21-in-macedonias-capital-skopje.html?_r=0

A ‘Water Bomb’ of a Storm Kills 21 in Macedonia’s Capital, Skopje



That particular case above quotes about 4 inches of rain. In matter of minutes or seconds? Like a bomb drop right?

On January 1992, we had 24 inches in 12 hours and there was a lot water around Townsville ...We had 8 inches of flood water though our office.....It had never happened before and may never happen again.

 

[cynic]

No idea Monk.

Maybe they're busy and have no time answering another adult saying "If you're so smart, what's 2 plus 3! Aha!"

I know, bloody nerds and their smug arrogance.

Or maybe they're not as expert as they would have the trusting populace believe!

 

[noco]

How many specialist Climate Scientists are there in the world? 97% of them said we're screwed if we keep this up.

And note that the other 3% didn't say there aren't CC. It's either they can't be sure or not certain CC is caused by human activities.

Anyway, I tend to believe scientists. I mean, the weatherman don't always get it right all the time, but the washing and the coat or no-coat do depend on their advise.

But ey, it's only life and death for hundreds of millions of people here... so let's be really really certain before we'd want to be reckless lest we end up living in cleaner world with cheaper renewable energy.

Luu, haven't you read my last couple of posts?

I have just mentioned to you there are 77 paid by the UN to write stuff to suit their agenda.....97% of 77 = 75.

Why are still insisting that it is 97% of all World scientists?...there is also 31,470 scientists who are skeptics.

You know the whole thing is a farce and a scam.....

BTW, I was in Lae PNG in the early 80's when 45 inches fell on that city in 24 hours...I was confined to my hotel room the whole day.

 

[Knobby22]

Do you happen to know what level of additional co2 would need to be present in our atmosphere to support the post industrial increase in this planet's population?

Um, your question doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe reword? That question is assuming an increase in CO2 is required to support the population.

 

[explod]

Luu, haven't you read my last couple of posts?

I have just mentioned to you there are 77 paid by the UN to write stuff to suit their agenda.....97% of 77 = 75.

Why are still insisting that it is 97% of all World scientists?...there is also 31,470 scientists who are skeptics.

You know the whole thing is a farce and a scam.....

BTW, I was in Lae PNG in the early 80's when 45 inches fell on that city in 24 hours...I was confined to my hotel room the whole day.

That was so. My Father knocked around the islands to the north in the 30/40's and said they measured the rain in the tropics by the foot and falls often even more than you describe noco.

If we had those falls today cities would be washed into the sea. In those days we had the bush and trees to absorb and hold it back.

We do not get rain like that much anymore because of global warming. We do get it out of the blue where we did not before and its called 100 year events.

 

[noco]

That was so. My Father knocked around the islands to the north in the 30/40's and said they measured the rain in the tropics by the foot and falls often even more than you describe noco.

If we had those falls today cities would be washed into the sea. In those days we had the bush and trees to absorb and hold it back.

We do not get rain like that much anymore because of global warming. We do get it out of the blue where we did not before and its called 100 year events.

I think you are getting carried away with yourself about cities getting wash away into the sea....Your imaginations are running wild again.

According to the Alarmist, because of Global Warming we would see more extreme events like more flooding, more cyclones etc. etc....Now you are saying Global warming is preventing good rain falls.....Sonny, it is all about the SUN causing climate change and the sooner you Greenies get that into your heads the better.

There has been record rain falls in Southern Queensland and northern NSW this year...Sydney and Brisbane have full dams...Even Perth has had its fair share of rain but here in Townsville we are on level 3 water restrictions with our dam below 20%.....I just hope this Labor Council here does not follow Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne Labor Governments who took Flim Flam Tim Flanery's word about not getting any rain when they got conned into constructing desalinization plants costing billions and which are now in moth balls......In my 45 years in Townsville I have observed out dam levels down to 10% on a couple of occasions......The rains will fall again on Townsville just as they have before....In the meantime we will be acquiring water from the might Burdekin dam which is currently near 100%.

Once again the alarmist have been proven wrong.

The Townsville dam was built in 1970 when we had just 90,000....we now have 200,000....The state Labor Government sat on its hands for over 20 years and did nothing to increase our water storage....There is now talk of the Federal Government providing money to construct a dam at Hells Gates on the Burdiken. 90 km west of Townsville which can be gravity fed....no pumping.