Resisting Climate Hysteria

[wayneL]

And tick again and again and again...

Why then do the chief alarmists race Around the World in private jets?

 

[explod]

Why then do the chief alarmists race Around the World in private jets?

Not trolling along though

 

[cynic]

Why then do the chief alarmists race Around the World in private jets?

Closet deniers perhaps?

 

[wayneL]

"...data mining to find the most pessimistic view of the future,"

It would be great if we weren't seeing repeated record temperatures set around the world. I'm sure Miami and Florida would like to ignore the rising sea levels that will wash away the city in the near future. (In fact they are trying to do that at the moment. It's not rising sea levels it's "nuisance flooding.")

]

So why did you pick Miami bas?

Why is sea level rising there? Could it be there are other factors at play? I know you know there are.

This is actually worse than data mining, it's freakin misrepresentation, or worse. So you are either in denial or are a liar.

Which is it?

 

[basilio]

So why did you pick Miami bas?

Why is sea level rising there? Could it be there are other factors at play? I know you know there are.

This is actually worse than data mining, it's freakin misrepresentation, or worse. So you are either in denial or are a liar.

Which is it?

I could have picked a score of other places Wayne where it's clear rising sea levels are creating serious problems.
Miami is just big expensive and American. How about Alaska or Shanghai ?

But in the end the city I use for an example is irrelevant. The issue is the record temperatures in the Arctic that is rapidly melting ice caps in Greenland and will result in metres of seas level rise in the foreseeable future.

.....Or not if you just don't believe (or want to believe..) anything untoward is happening.

 

[basilio]

By the way Wayne did you have any comments on Smurfs last contribution to the discussion ?

 

[luutzu]

So why did you pick Miami bas?

Why is sea level rising there? Could it be there are other factors at play? I know you know there are.

This is actually worse than data mining, it's freakin misrepresentation, or worse. So you are either in denial or are a liar.

Which is it?

It's a great article Sifu, should read it. The kind of journalism I'm shock to find still exists at established media houses.

So houses in Miami are being flooded, the people can't sell and can't afford to go anywhere... and politicians get pay to deny there's a problem. It's the moon that's causing the flooding; what climate change? Climate has always change - daily. Oi, remove "Climate Change" from all your research and studies into why Miami has a water problem.

I like this other one... so the streets are flooded and the residents just can't work out why since there hasn't been any rain, and I'm guessing the Moon can't be blame for it... Turns out the flood is caused by rising sea level flooding back up the stormwater system.

Guess it's either the sea is rising or the engineer back then can't use their water level to direct stormwater down towards the sea.

 

[trainspotter]

I could have picked a score of other places Wayne where it's clear rising sea levels are creating serious problems.
Miami is just big expensive and American. How about Alaska or Shanghai ?

But in the end the city I use for an example is irrelevant. The issue is the record temperatures in the Arctic that is rapidly melting ice caps in Greenland and will result in metres of seas level rise in the foreseeable future.

.....Or not if you just don't believe (or want to believe..) anything untoward is happening.

How about Alaska then ...

So what can we say about sea level trends along Alaska's coast? It's the geology, stupid.

"The land surface in Southern Alaska is moving faster than global sea level is presently changing," says Jeff Freymueller, a scientist with the Geophysical Institute and Department of Geology and Geophysics at the University of Alaska Fairbanks.

Absolute sea level in the Gulf of Alaska has been falling, contradicting a global trend, according to a new study that focused mainly on the "good news-bad news" situation in Chesapeake Bay on the United States' East Coast. But Alaska scientists have found a more complicated picture.

http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/article/southern-alaskan-sea-levels-defy-worldwide-trends/2010/12/28/

What's that about Miami you say ...

This study attributed the flooding frequency increase to a decadal-scale accelerating rates of SLR. However, some of the increased flooding frequency might have caused due to local land subsidence, because some of the low elevation sections of the city were built on reclaimed swamps.

http://www.ces.fau.edu/arctic-florida/pdfs/fiaschi-wdowinski.pdf

Shanghai anyone, anyone ...

Shanghai’s skyline glitters with sleek financial skyscrapers and glossy residential towers, but below the city’s lustrous facade lies an enduring problem. Thanks to mass urban migration, soft soil and global warming, Shanghai is sinking, and has been for decades. Since 1921, China’s most populous city has descended more than 6 ft. Across China, land subsidence affects more than 50 cities, where 49,000 sq. mi. of land have dropped at least 8 in.

http://science.time.com/2012/05/21/soaring-to-sinking-how-building-up-is-bringing-shanghai-down/

RESIST THE HYSTERIA !!

 

[basilio]

Great to see such a keen interest in land subsidence, building on reclaimed swamps, changes happening in the land as old ice caps retreat. All good science.

Which makes it all the more difficult to understand a complete refusal to acknowledge rapidly increasing temperatures and consequent rapid melting of Arctic and Antarctic ice caps. Not to mention the risks of huge methane emissions from melting permafrost or frozen methane hydrates.


http://news.uga.edu/releases/article/study-2015-melting-greenland-ice-faster-arctic-warming-0616/
https://theconversation.com/methane-hydrates-a-volatile-time-bomb-in-the-arctic-9891
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/antarctica-at-risk-of-runaway-melting-20189

 

[basilio]

Shanghai anyone ..anyone ? TS

Shanghai has inherently soft soil because of its geographical position at the mouth of the Yangtze River basin and, yes, groundwater accounts for nearly 70% of land subsidence; however, experts say, the weight of skyscrapers and global warming also play hefty roles in aggravating what they call “the most important geological disaster in Shanghai.” Unfortunately, the implications will only grow graver with the pace of development and rising sea levels.

....Scientists expect the regulations to help curb the consumption of underground-water supplies, but there are a few things the government has less control over, like global warming. As land degradation and excessive guzzling of groundwater continue, environmentalists predict waters surrounding Shanghai will rise 9 to 27 in. by 2050 as a result of melting ice caps.
... Even then, global warming remains an obstacle. As skyscrapers in Shanghai go up and the glaciers in the North and South poles melt down, cities like Shanghai grow more and more vulnerable every day.

All excerpts from the article you quoted TS.

http://science.time.com/2012/05/21/soaring-to-sinking-how-building-up-is-bringing-shanghai-down/

 

[trainspotter]

Shanghai anyone ..anyone ? TS

All excerpts from the article you quoted TS.

http://science.time.com/2012/05/21/soaring-to-sinking-how-building-up-is-bringing-shanghai-down/

Not denying it basilio ... it is not all about the oceans rising and the glaciers melting. Land is subsiding as well.

Bueller, Bueller, Bueller ... anyone ... anyone?

Shanghai has inherently soft soil because of its geographical position at the mouth of the Yangtze River basin and, yes, groundwater accounts for nearly 70% of land subsidence

 

[luutzu]

Not denying it basilio ... it is not all about the oceans rising and the glaciers melting. Land is subsiding as well.

Bueller, Bueller, Bueller ... anyone ... anyone?

Trick question: Which is faster - ice melting or land sinking?

Come on TS. With all the piers and floating slab engineers put into buildings, cities don't just sink and have water lapping at its doors.

And if we allow for that kind of sinking, it won't be level... Leaning Tower of Pisa and stuff.

Heard that a few years ago, NASA's rocket propulsion lab figured some ice sheet in Iceland (Greenland?) was melting at a rate of some 50,000 tone/L of water a day. So unless there's an equivalent freezing somewhere in the world, that rate of new water might raise sea level faster than any soil subsidence.

 

[wayneL]

Venice anyone? Grasshopper?

 

[trainspotter]

Trick question: Which is faster - ice melting or land sinking?

Come on TS. With all the piers and floating slab engineers put into buildings, cities don't just sink and have water lapping at its doors.

And if we allow for that kind of sinking, it won't be level... Leaning Tower of Pisa and stuff.

Heard that a few years ago, NASA's rocket propulsion lab figured some ice sheet in Iceland (Greenland?) was melting at a rate of some 50,000 tone/L of water a day. So unless there's an equivalent freezing somewhere in the world, that rate of new water might raise sea level faster than any soil subsidence.

Since 1921, China’s most populous city has descended more than 6 ft.

As land degradation and excessive guzzling of groundwater continue, environmentalists predict waters surrounding Shanghai will rise 9 to 27 in. by 2050 as a result of melting ice caps.

So in 95 years China’s most populous city has descended more than 6 ft and in 34 years "scientists" are predicting sea level rising ALONG with ground subsidence between 9 to 27 inches? OR 22.86mm - 68.58mm compared to 182.88mm previously??



Excessive guzzling of groundwater = ground subsidence.

 

[trainspotter]

No doubt this will cause global warming as well ...

"Coronal holes are the source of a high-speed wind of solar particles that streams off the sun some three times faster than the slower wind elsewhere," NASA says. They can appear anywhere from weeks to months at a time, and can take up as much as a quarter of the sun’s surface.

Even though a coronal hole on the sun doesn’t signal the end of the world, it can lead to a few pesky problems back on Earth.

"Solar winds released from the corona can form solar storms, which can disrupt satellite and radio communication systems," the Huffington Post reports.

http://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-s-just-found-a-huge-hole-growing-on-the-surface-of-the-sun

 

[wayneL]

I could have picked a score of other places Wayne where it's clear rising sea levels are creating serious problems.
Miami is just big expensive and American. How about Alaska or Shanghai ?

But in the end the city I use for an example is irrelevant. The issue is the record temperatures in the Arctic that is rapidly melting ice caps in Greenland and will result in metres of seas level rise in the foreseeable future.

.....Or not if you just don't believe (or want to believe..) anything untoward is happening. ;)

I'm beginning to wonder if you have any comprehension abilities whatsoever. Either that or you just love fallacious and intellectually unscrupulous straw man arguments.

How many times on this thread have I listed my concerns for the environment on number of fronts? Would you care to go back and count?

Ah but as usual you have to be a lying #### to try to further a largely political agenda of the left.

Yes sea level is rising, has been since the end of the little ice age, along with temperatures. You alarmists try to make an anthropogenic case for acceleration of this trend along with a purported causation. But you can only do so with examples like Shanghai, Maimi, those freakin Islands I can't remember the name of... all places where there are land mass shifts (and yes largely human induced) exacerbates this trend.

Then comes the weasely worded predictions. My disdain for the likes of you grows exponentially with each pathetic corruption of the data to present a worst case scenario. You are sick basilio, see a psych.

 

[wayneL]

By the way Wayne did you have any comments on Smurfs last contribution to the discussion ?

Not really, except to say that as an analogy, it is not appropriate.

A dam is a physical structure, the soundness of which can be examined deterministically with physics and the hard sciences, mistakes notwithstanding.

Climate is a chaotic system, there is no comparison.

 

[luutzu]

Venice anyone? Grasshopper?

Venice was built on an actual swamp Sifu, and it's still at similar flooding level as parts of Miami. One was built way back in the Middle Ages, the other only got started some 150 years ago when Jackson free it from the Spaniards.

That and I saw other documents where Florida are mainly made up of ancient coral reefs and limestones. So it's soft, but not muddy... more prone to sink holes in places.

But let say soil subsidence and sinking is the main cause for water issues... wouldn't that also mean we ought to be more "hysterical" in our attempt to not risk sea level rises? That if there's a minute chance that our idiotic eggheads might be right about what's going to cause the ice to melt (warming planet), we might want to listen and maybe do things to prevent it. Just in case? No?

I put out an ice cube and it melt to water... but the icecaps and glaciers melting because the Earth is heating up? Get out of town.

Come on Sifu, you know we're right.

 

[trainspotter]

Venice was built on an actual swamp Sifu, and it's still at similar flooding level as parts of Miami. One was built way back in the Middle Ages, the other only got started some 150 years ago when Jackson free it from the Spaniards.

That and I saw other documents where Florida are mainly made up of ancient coral reefs and limestones. So it's soft, but not muddy... more prone to sink holes in places.

But let say soil subsidence and sinking is the main cause for water issues... wouldn't that also mean we ought to be more "hysterical" in our attempt to not risk sea level rises? That if there's a minute chance that our idiotic eggheads might be right about what's going to cause the ice to melt (warming planet), we might want to listen and maybe do things to prevent it. Just in case? No?

I put out an ice cube and it melt to water... but the icecaps and glaciers melting because the Earth is heating up? Get out of town.

Come on Sifu, you know we're right.

FACT CHECK - Venice was built in a LAGOON and the houses were constructed on wooden stumps. The stumps were smashed into sand. There is no subsidence in Venice other than the stumps disintegrating which have being replaced with metal and stone.

FACT CHECK - The Florida peninsula is a porous plateau of karst limestone sitting atop bedrock known as the Florida Platform. The emergent portion of the platform was created during the Eocene to Oligocene as the Gulf Trough filled with silts, clays, and sands.

FACT CHECK - 70% of subsidence is caused by excessive guzzling of groundwater and not rising sea levels.

FACT CHECK - Yes the ice is melting and the sea level is rising. Has been doing so for millions of years (as well as falling). That is how this planet was shaped. The ocean and atmosphere comprise the outer layer of the Earth and are major forces that shape its surface. They wear down mountains and redeposit them as sediments, carving the landscapes we live in. In turn, the positions of the continents and mountains, along with the heat from the Sun, determine ocean currents and atmospheric circulation.

Geoid, anyone, anyone?

 

[basilio]

I'm beginning to wonder if you have any comprehension abilities whatsoever. Either that or you just love fallacious and intellectually unscrupulous straw man arguments.

How many times on this thread have I listed my concerns for the environment on number of fronts? Would you care to go back and count?

Ah but as usual you have to be a lying #### to try to further a largely political agenda of the left.

Yes sea level is rising, has been since the end of the little ice age, along with temperatures. You alarmists try to make an anthropogenic case for acceleration of this trend along with a purported causation. But you can only do so with examples like Shanghai, Maimi, those freakin Islands I can't remember the name of... all places where there are land mass shifts (and yes largely human induced) exacerbates this trend.

Then comes the weasely worded predictions. My disdain for the likes of you grows exponentially with each pathetic corruption of the data to present a worst case scenario. You are sick basilio, see a psych.

Not impressed Wayne... Keep yourself nice..:frown:

I'll accept that you have strong environmental concerns. But that puzzles me even further because that suggest you read widely and are well capable of understanding complex ideas. And of course that you care.

And then we come to global warming and climate change... Somehow you manage to resolutely ignore every piece of evidence that shows the temperature around the globe is rising at an unparalleled rate to levels not seen for hundreds of thousands of years

You resolutely ignore the work of glaciologists that shows the effects such temperature increase had on ice caps when temperatures were at those levels. Ocean levels were many metres higher than today.

And finally you appear to reject any significant connection between rapidly increasing green house gases and the increase in temperatures. (Of course if you say temperatures aren't actually at record levels you can keep a fig leaf of logic can't you. Shame about the facts though..)

And in the end what do you do ? You arn't just insulting me Wayne by saying I need to go to a psychiatrist. I am just relating the work of the overwhelming body of science on the subject. Your accusing the whole climate science and related studies community of being corrupt and crazy.