Resisting Climate Hysteria

[luutzu]

What is "the light" luutzu?

"the light" is stuff I believe


Just my pedestrians and simple news headlines and everyday observations: Just two years back, I've read quite a few "....of the century" weather events.

There's the few abnormal hurricanes/typhoon in the Philippines and Vanuatu; the few snow storms and arctic whatever of the century in the US east coasts just last winter; the flooding of New York a couple years ago; the hurricane that clear off a fair junk of New Jersey; the greatest drought in California in a century right now...

and in Australia... flash floodings in NSW, QLD; hottest day in April recently, then a freak hail storms in Sydney, and now QLD flooding, again in only a couple months.

I doubt these "once in a decade" and once in a century events won't happen again within next couple years.

 

[noco]

What is "the light" luutzu?

It is the light at the end of the tunnel when the alarmist fall off the cliff with all their propaganda about Global Warming...oops...sorry.... it is now climate change....I forgot there has been no Global Warming for 18 years.

 

[luutzu]

It is the light at the end of the tunnel when the alarmist fall off the cliff with all their propaganda about Global Warming...oops...sorry.... it is now climate change....I forgot there has been no Global Warming for 18 years.

Pretty sure global warming doesn't mean just hot weather. But California is pretty hot and dry right now. So is Brazil.

Heard the last time Cali was this dry, it was 1,200 years ago.

Saw a doco a while back and it said that by 2050 or so, the entire middle of continental USA will be out of water. Reason is not global warming but that the entire plain cannot support agriculture - there is no water source except for those deep underground. Those reservoir has been built up over millions of years and modern technology some 50 years ago suck it up and turn it plush for farming.

Heard the same sort of water is being used in most of California...

Now, if Cali dries up because there is not enough snow on whatever mountains that supplies most of its water; if in 2050 the entire middle of US is dry...

add to that possible rise in sea level, extreme weather patterns killing off crops and livestocks...

add to that changes in sea temperature, killing certain species and coral somewhere down the food chain...

Basically, less fish from the seas, less crops from the USA, less crops in most places due to rising sea level salting arable land...

add to that the pollution, the smog that causes cancer and premature deaths....


In short, global warming isn't just about the weather getting a bit hotter. It's extremes... extremely wet, extremely dry, extremely hot, extremely cold.

Think the effect that will have on livestocks and crops; on infrastructure and re-engineering to withstand extremes.


The best case scenario is food and tax will be much much higher. The other is there will be wars and revolutions all over the place.


Global Warming is one of those cases where you don't need data and scientific precision to know that maybe we ought to be cleaner... just in case the way we're doing things will end up killing most of our species. But there are plenty of data and science aren't there?

Here's another fact. In most of China the bees are dying off. Too much air pollution and pesticide etc., so crops and plants can't pollinate. They then resort to getting people climbing trees and whatnot to pollinate the flowers.

 

[noco]

Pretty sure global warming doesn't mean just hot weather. But California is pretty hot and dry right now. So is Brazil.

Heard the last time Cali was this dry, it was 1,200 years ago.

Saw a doco a while back and it said that by 2050 or so, the entire middle of continental USA will be out of water. Reason is not global warming but that the entire plain cannot support agriculture - there is no water source except for those deep underground. Those reservoir has been built up over millions of years and modern technology some 50 years ago suck it up and turn it plush for farming.

Heard the same sort of water is being used in most of California...

Now, if Cali dries up because there is not enough snow on whatever mountains that supplies most of its water; if in 2050 the entire middle of US is dry...

add to that possible rise in sea level, extreme weather patterns killing off crops and livestocks...

add to that changes in sea temperature, killing certain species and coral somewhere down the food chain...

Basically, less fish from the seas, less crops from the USA, less crops in most places due to rising sea level salting arable land...

add to that the pollution, the smog that causes cancer and premature deaths....


In short, global warming isn't just about the weather getting a bit hotter. It's extremes... extremely wet, extremely dry, extremely hot, extremely cold.

Think the effect that will have on livestocks and crops; on infrastructure and re-engineering to withstand extremes.


The best case scenario is food and tax will be much much higher. The other is there will be wars and revolutions all over the place.


Global Warming is one of those cases where you don't need data and scientific precision to know that maybe we ought to be cleaner... just in case the way we're doing things will end up killing most of our species. But there are plenty of data and science aren't there?

Here's another fact. In most of China the bees are dying off. Too much air pollution and pesticide etc., so crops and plants can't pollinate. They then resort to getting people climbing trees and whatnot to pollinate the flowers.

I hope that doco didn't come from our very own Tim Flannery

 

[luutzu]

I hope that doco didn't come from our very own Tim Flannery

Don't know who Tim Flannery is.

That doco wasn't about climate change, just some stuff I click on to know about things.


Have you seen Promised Land? Starring Matt Damon... anyway, there's this greenie, tree hugger type guy who turns up wanting to help organise the town against big oil wanting to frack etc. He made all cases against fracking, how it kills the animals and pollute the water etc. Then it turns out the guy is a fraud.... then later it turns out that he was sent from "the corporation" to do what he does as an example of the frauds those greenies are - so the town won't believe any lefty commies "scientists" anymore... and it worked.

But it's only the movies right? In real life they won't do that.

Here's a short doco on our planet at 2 degree warmer [doomsday at 6 degrees]:

 

[noco]

Don't know who Tim Flannery is.

That doco wasn't about climate change, just some stuff I click on to know about things.


Have you seen Promised Land? Starring Matt Damon... anyway, there's this greenie, tree hugger type guy who turns up wanting to help organise the town against big oil wanting to frack etc. He made all cases against fracking, how it kills the animals and pollute the water etc. Then it turns out the guy is a fraud.... then later it turns out that he was sent from "the corporation" to do what he does as an example of the frauds those greenies are - so the town won't believe any lefty commies "scientists" anymore... and it worked.

But it's only the movies right? In real life they won't do that.

Here's a short doco on our planet at 2 degree warmer [doomsday at 6 degrees]:

More propaganda based on a big IF...There has been no Global warming for the past 18 years.

The great Barrier Reef has never been in better shape says Professor Peter Ridd from JCU Townsville.

 

[Tisme]

Here a link which will blow your mind apart...I do hope you read it all the way through.


]t is generally accepted that the Earth has been much warmer than today, for example, in the time of the dinosaurs (the mid-cretaceous period) when the CO2 was 2 to 4 times greater than today (NOAA). More recently, in the prior period between ice ages, just 125,000 years ago, the Earth also was much warmer than today and the sea level much higher - by about 13 to 20 feet (4 to 6 meters) (IPCC).

I thought you were not going to be swayed by true or false, but then you throw up generalisations as proof of your intransigence.

I fail to see the correlation between 125k years ago and now? Are you saying that we should be a meagre berry eating population of lower intelligence instead of the triple latte society we are today? Hmmm.... hard choice ASF discussion board or dead by 23 from starvation, disease and lion feeding.

 

[wayneL]

So you accept your viewas are an article of faith luutzu?

 

[noco]

I thought you were not going to be swayed by true or false, but then you throw up generalisations as proof of your intransigence.

I fail to see the correlation between 125k years ago and now? Are you saying that we should be a meagre berry eating population of lower intelligence instead of the triple latte society we are today? Hmmm.... hard choice ASF discussion board or dead by 23 from starvation, disease and lion feeding.

I am a skeptic through and through but if you read the link in its entirety you should have noted it was not only about skeptics but alarmist as well and it has nothing to do with me being swayed one way or the other...It was a point of view which most of it debunks the Global warming myth....I have used my life experience and common sense to know right from wrong about climate change.

Much of that link backs up what I believe in.

It is up to you to believe in what you want...You can believe in God......you can believe in what some crack pot tells you about Global Warming or climate change or you can believe in what you think yourself whether it is political or religious....You are mainly basing your beliefs on what someone has said of what might happen if the Earth warms by 2% or 6% .There is no gospel truth that it will actually happen.

Man made CO2 only represents 3% of CO2 in the atmosphere.....So how is that going to affect Global warming in light of the fact that our reduction in CO2 will be 5% by 2020.

 

[orr]

Ahh...'The light'

Reminds me of that old fable with four blind men and an elephant and each one is told to identify what it is. None of them correctly identify the whole animal because they only go with the bit they directly access...

http://www.everystudent.com/wires/elephant.html

The light is what takes you out of the dark, stops you groping around bumping into things, misidentifying them, lets all those people, who don't read brail, read...

A few people would much prefer to misidentify the elephant in the room. Wilful blindness, happy to be in the dark, tragic cognitive dissonance, in the end all amounts to the same thing.

It would be attractive to think that human beings would lose faith in self delusion, lot easier in the dark I suppose.

 

[Smurf1976]

Man made CO2 only represents 3% of CO2 in the atmosphere

I think you'll find that man contributes about 3% of annual emissions but, due to this having gone on for rather a long time, accounts for around 30% of CO2 actually in the atmosphere today.

 

[noco]

Don't know who Tim Flannery is.

If you don't know who Tim Flannert is, you must live outside of Australia.

Everybody in Australia knows that crack pot alarmist Flannery who said in 2007 there would be insufficient rains to fill the dams in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne and that they would all run out of water........Those dams are now full to overflowing.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...tim_flannery_is_having_fun_its_raining_money/

 

[luutzu]

So you accept your viewas are an article of faith luutzu?

Don't think I've admitted or accept my view as such.

I certainly haven't gone into depth or analyse the raw data, and I've admitted that my understanding are just pedestrian and observational - that is, a few doco, a few interviews here and there.

So while I'm no expert, I know enough... Kinda like knowing not to smoke. I'm told there are hundreds of chemicals in a cigarette - so inhaling it in a pack a day isn't good; Then there are sick and coughing smokers I see around me; there's those graphic warnings. Did I go and detail all the chemicals? No; Did I research to find out the probability of premature death from smoking, the genetics and other pre-existing conditions that will likely or less likely to affect smokers in general and me in particular? No...

My grandfather smokes since he was a teen and die of old age at 93; my wife's great-grandfather smokes since he was 11, he still smokes right now at 95 and he's as fit as you can be at that age.

Should I look at those few rare cases and conclude that smoking won't kill you?

So I just know enough to never light up a cigarette and inhale it. Same with global warming.

---
Al Gore made a convincing case when I watched and listen; I understand how the greenhouse effect works; I've seen enough news and read about once in a century weather events happening way too many time in my young life so far... and last but not least, I just changed my car's air filter and it's all black.

Like I said, the evidence are there... and I've heard them from experts.

But let say CO2 and our fossil fuel and global warming got nothing to do with each other... It is not clean energy yes? it's toxic to human and other lifeform yes?

Shouldn't that one fact alone be convincing enough to get ourselves going another direction? Do we really need to wait for the flood to reach our angle then we start to be convinced?


I rode around a few Asian cities on a scooter. On a less populated road, ones near the ocean it's all good. But taking an open-air tuk tuk around Bangkok, or riding around Hanoi or HCM City and you'd have a pretty clear idea how poisonous fossil fuel is, how many life years it will rob those people of.

Look at the rate of cancer death of those living near coal-fired power plants in the US, or near oil refineries or industrial plastics etc. It's not a coincidence... the lawyers will say otherwise but we know right?

----

An interesting story.

You know what also contributed to the famine that kill 20 million people in China during Mao's good idea at the time moment? The killing of sparrows and other birds across the countryside.

He figured, or someone told him, that sparrows and birds eat the rice crop. So what better sense then get rid of them. So the farmers were ordered to bang their pots all across the country, scaring the daylights out of those birds that they fly and too afraid to land. So they ends up falling and most were dead.

Without those birds, the insects have no predators... and they eat most of the crop.

Add to this the fact that he ordered a move away from argiculture towards industrialisation and steel production from such wasteful steel instruments as farm equipment... When a bad harvest come because of drought or something, 20 million Chinese died over a few years period.


Put that on a global scale, and not just from a couple of bad and unfortunate events, but many times that - from the extreme weather to drought from low mountain icecaps, to rising sea level that will flood cities and salt arable land, to potentially unknown impact on marine life and disruption of that food chain... you might want to err on the side of caution here.

When you ignore the stop smoking warnings - thinking it's all hysteria with hidden agendas - and so just smoke anyway... that's fine because it will only kill you and hurt your loved ones; With global warming, you're not talking about just you or your family, it's literally the survival of our species and those million others.

If you want to be lazy like me, then err on the side of caution... If you want to deny and prove them scientists wrong, the only responsible thing to do is to then devote your career towards testing and researching the subject matter.

If anything's too important to take lightly, it's global warming.
You know, you can't say stuff like "coal is good for humanity", full stop. Or shrug it off by pointing to the Bible and God's promise to Noah.

 

[luutzu]

Everybody in Australia knows that crack pot alarmist Flannery who said in 2007 there would be insufficient rains to fill the dams in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne and that they would all run out of water........Those dams are now full to overflowing.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...tim_flannery_is_having_fun_its_raining_money/

California.
Just heard it hasn't been this dry since 1200 years ago.



Brazil epic drought. Still going right now.


Queensland drought - that's a lot of red.

 

[noco]

California.
Just heard it hasn't been this dry since 1200 years ago.
View attachment 62463


Brazil epic drought. Still going right now.
View attachment 62464

Queensland drought - that's a lot of red.
View attachment 62465

So what is the problem?...it has all happened before.

Matee, I worked in the south west of Queensland for some years as a plumber....I worked on many sheep stations when wool was a pound sterling for a pound weight.

The smart cockies went through these droughts on many occasions but they were prepared for such events well in advance....They were never short of fodder for their stock as they would, in good times, grow silage on 400 to 500 acres, harvest it and bury it in under ground silos...So long as it had 2 feet of earth over the top, the silage was good for 11 years......In conditions like they are currently experiencing, the silage would dug and fed to their stock....Unfortunately, the modern farmer today is too lazy, relies upon the heavens and is quite happy to put his hand out for government assistance....there were no handouts in the 1950's.
There was always plenty of water from underground bores.

So my point is, don't blame Global warming, climate change or man made CO2...It has all happened before and not so far back.

 

[basilio]

Another perspectives from The Guardian.

The lukewarmers don’t deny climate change. But they say the outlook’s fine

There are climate change sceptics, mainstream scientists – and a significant group in the middle. Whose voice is being heeded

Unless you’re knee deep in the mud of the climate debate, as I am, you might not know that so-called “climate denial” is actually not that common in the UK. Not that I call people deniers anyway: it antagonises, partly because it is thrown around indiscriminately. There are still people who are unconvinced that carbon dioxide has any greenhouse warming effect, particularly in the US and Australia. But by far the most common kind of non-mainstream, contrarian view I see in the UK – particularly in politicians, journalists and bloggers – is the self-described “lukewarmer”.

.....But whether we are in denial, lukewarm or concerned about global warming, the question really boils down to how we view uncertainty. If you agree with mainstream scientists, what would you be willing to do to reduce the predicted risks of substantial warming? And if you’re a lukewarmer, confident the Earth is not very sensitive, what would be at risk if you were wrong?

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/may/03/climate-change-scepticism-denial-lukewarmers

 

[noco]

Another perspectives from The Guardian.



http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/may/03/climate-change-scepticism-denial-lukewarmers

Next headline in the Guardian.

ALL DENIERS ARE TO BE ROUNDED UP AND SHOT.

LOL.

 

[basilio]

Next headline in the Guardian.

ALL DENIERS ARE TO BE ROUNDED UP AND SHOT.

LOL.

Actually Noco no.. In fact after special consideration of your particular needs (and thousands like you) The Guardian commissioned a very special piece.

Enjoy it in full. It's not even April 1st !

Climate change is an obvious myth – how much more evidence do you need?

Many people just refuse to accept the facts that surround them, even if we saw 100 more years of it plain and apparent

Dean Burnett

Climate change is a myth. We all know this, deep down. Some of you reading this may have been taken in by the fear-mongering governments or corrupt scientists so have been brainwashed into thinking climate change is a real thing that “threatens all of humanity” or some other nonsense, but it’s just that: nonsense. When you look closely at it, the so-called evidence for climate change, or “global warming” or “warmageddon” or “planetary death spiral” or whatever they’re calling it these days, it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

Take changes in sea level. They keep banging on about how the warming of the atmosphere causes rising sea levels, but if that was happening we’d have seen it by now! It’s been countless decades since they first started predicting this, but here we still are! But they persist in trying to convince us it’s a real threat, citing places that were supposedly “lost to the waves” and we’re supposed to believe that places like Atlantis, Miami or Skegness actually existed? You believe that rubbish and you probably believe we landed on Ganymede! And you’re an idiot, so there’s no hope for you.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/...vious-myth-how-much-more-evidence-do-you-need

 

[luutzu]

So what is the problem?...it has all happened before.

Matee, I worked in the south west of Queensland for some years as a plumber....I worked on many sheep stations when wool was a pound sterling for a pound weight.

The smart cockies went through these droughts on many occasions but they were prepared for such events well in advance....They were never short of fodder for their stock as they would, in good times, grow silage on 400 to 500 acres, harvest it and bury it in under ground silos...So long as it had 2 feet of earth over the top, the silage was good for 11 years......In conditions like they are currently experiencing, the silage would dug and fed to their stock....Unfortunately, the modern farmer today is too lazy, relies upon the heavens and is quite happy to put his hand out for government assistance....there were no handouts in the 1950's.
There was always plenty of water from underground bores.

So my point is, don't blame Global warming, climate change or man made CO2...It has all happened before and not so far back.

It's frequency and magnitude that's more important.

For example. Current California drought - not the first time they have it, but it's the worst in 1,200 years. Brazil I don't think expect to ever have a drought problem since they have the Amazon etc., now trucks in water to cities and planning to import them.

I just googled and found this:
Climate change set to triple drought, bushfires and floods in Australia
http://www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2014/06/12/4023302.htm

---

When you have extreme and frequent "bad" weather - it damages your current infrastructure. Namely rail, roads and bridges... and skyscrapers and houses and drainage capacity.

I saw headlines of a few oil freight train derailed in the US last winter. They're suspected to be due to track issues from extreme snows and arctic storm etc.; there are damages to their roads and bridges, oil pipelines and water pipelines and sewage systems etc.

You're a plumber so you know if this is true or made up - I just read before that Brazil can't really turn on and off the water supply to control water restrictions because it will damage water pipes if one section is empty while the other is pressurised etc. So i guess they have to just lower it all or turn it all off and truck water around and control it that way.

Extreme weather will increase the costs of infrastructure upgrades, just so it'd cope.
It disrupts business, transportation, travels, increase costs of production, insurance premium and also taxes... and that's the inconvenience in rich countries.

In poor countries, say the Philippines... yea they've had typhoons before, but not as strong as they've seen it recently.

Anyway, to your point about all these weather happening before... Acid rain? How about smog in major cities? The wind will just take it elsewhere? The rain will just wash it down the ocean soon enough?

----
anywho, when there's enough death and destructions costing insurance companies and gov't too much ... maybe there'd be a will and some money left from reconstruction, rehabilitation to seriously fund R&D into alternatives.

Gotta see the tallies for costs-benefits analysis. Can't really plan without data can we?

 

[Knobby22]

Good read Basilio.