The symbol of the Halal Certification Authority Australia

[herzy]

Fact :- The companies paying for islamic logos are aiming at a specific consumer.
Fact :- The specific consumer number is minute in Australia. (approximately 400000 people)

This could mean

* the consumers in countries with islamic law are the main target.
* the companies have an islamic religious management.
* companies want to capitalise on the attention islam is increasingly receiving.
* companies foresee Australia integrating islamic law into the constitution.

Ridiculous. What's the connection to Islamic law in the constitution?

This could also mean:
- companies are trying to increase the target market of their product
- this is a purely commercial decision


I have a much bigger issue with Tony Abbott's religious counsellors in schools, if you're worried about religion getting into politics/law.

 

[luutzu]

Fact :- The companies paying for islamic logos are aiming at a specific consumer.
Fact :- The specific consumer number is minute in Australia. (approximately 400000 people)

This could mean

* the consumers in countries with islamic law are the main target.
* the companies have an islamic religious management.
* companies want to capitalise on the attention islam is increasingly receiving.
* companies foresee Australia integrating islamic law into the constitution.

That's crazy man.
Having your products Halal certified open it to some 1.4 Billion new potential customers. While not all businesses have the reach, all would want that potential market - 1/4 of the world's.

If the company is smart enough, I wouldn't be surprise if it uses two kinds of packaging for the same food - one for the terrorists and one for the infidels.

 

[Value Collector]

How does it feel living off the earnings of immorality and evil ?

Is that question for me or the straw man your attempting to construct.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

 

[SirRumpole]

Is that question for me or the straw man your attempting to construct.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Whatever suits you, but just to wrap up with your Scotsman example, if a Scotsman said to me "only a Scotsman can tell if a haggis contains oatmeal", I would say to him "rubbish, we have perfectly good analytical laboratories in this country that can tell with utmost precision, the complete contents of any haggis, and if that is not good enough for you, tough luck, go somewhere else".

So tell me again why are Muslims the only people qualified to say whether a food contains no pork ?

 

[Value Collector]

So tell me again why are Muslims the only people qualified to say whether a food contains no pork ?

What I will tell you again, is that its not just about not containing pork, there are quite a few different rules,

Also things fried in pig fat or containing certain parts of animals may make something not halal, seeing the halal certification means they don't have to worry about checking, going through all the ingredients, it means someone whom they trust knows the rules has checked it for them.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Also things fried in pig fat or containing certain parts of animals may make something not halal, seeing the halal certification means they don't have to worry about checking, going through all the ingredients, it means someone whom they trust knows the rules has checked it for them.

All scientifically tested by mohammed (another) in his inner city 10th floor apartment. A minute trace leading to a sharia law breach and the ensuing guilt, penance, punishment.

 

[Bintang]

What I will tell you again, is that its not just about not containing pork, there are quite a few different rules,

Also things fried in pig fat or containing certain parts of animals may make something not halal, seeing the halal certification means they don't have to worry about checking, going through all the ingredients, it means someone whom they trust knows the rules has checked it for them.

About 2 years ago a 'bakso' (Indonesian meatballs) vendor in Jakarta was closed down when it was discovered that his meatballs contained pork. The funny thing about this was that prior to the discovery his 'bakso' was highly popular because it tasted so good.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/12/14/s-jakarta-vendors-sold-beef-bakso-with-pork.html

 

[DB008]

An intelligent Muslim's opinion on this. And from the daily mail...(LOL).


We Muslims should be appalled by the sale of halal meat by stealth

When I walk into a restaurant, I’m usually a hungry customer. It shouldn’t be important to the waiter what my religion is.

I could be a Muslim, a Christian or a Jedi warrior. Whatever my beliefs, I have a right to enjoy my meal without any hidden agendas.

Pizza Express, one of Britain’s favourite food institutions, admitted this week that all the chicken it serves has been
killed according to traditional halal methods. The blood was drained from the bird and prayers were recited during the slaughter.

This is covert religious extremism and creeping Islamic fundamentalism making its way into Britain by the back door.

It is completely wrong that the food sensitivities of Britain’s Muslims ”” who amount to just 4.8 per cent of the population ”” should take precedence over the other 95 per cent.

Halal meat should never be forced on customers without their knowing, surreptitiously and using clandestine methods.

It’s unfair to everyone, non-Muslims and Muslims alike. It’s deception on a grand scale for the former, while it could fuel bitter resentment against the latter.

Of course I understand that many of my fellow Muslims, who are moderates not militants, will feel strongly that they wish to eat meat that has been killed by customary halal methods ”” and they have a perfect right to do so.

But many misconceptions need to be clarified, because I am certain that most people don’t understand where these rules about food came from, and who benefits from them.

First of all, if you’ve just tucked into a chicken pizza without knowing it was halal meat, it hasn’t done you any physical harm. But it hasn’t done you any spiritual good, either. Muslims don’t believe that religious observance can be used as a holy shortcut or a ticket to paradise.

Furthermore, the idea that Muslims cannot eat non-halal food ”” food that is suitable for Christians ”” is completely wrong, and it has no theological basis in the Koran, the supreme text of Islam.

I’m a dedicated Muslim, a devout religionist, an imam and intellectual scholar of Islam, but I eat whatever food is placed before me, with the obvious exception of pork. If you’re kind enough to invite me to your home, I would eat whatever meat you chose to serve: turkey, lamb, chicken, beef … anything except pork.

This is perfectly permissible in Islam, and the crucial thing is that it doesn’t have to be halal meat. No one wants an imam to be quoting chapter and verse of the Koran over the turkey sandwiches, but it is important that everyone understands how clearcut the teaching is.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2623879/We-Muslims-appalled-sale-halal-meat-stealth.html#ixzz3JAybnhcZ

 

[SirRumpole]

An intelligent Muslim's opinion on this. And from the daily mail...(LOL).


We Muslims should be appalled by the sale of halal meat by stealth



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2623879/We-Muslims-appalled-sale-halal-meat-stealth.html#ixzz3JAybnhcZ

That would appear to be an official endorsement by an Imam that there is no need for Halal certification. JUST DON'T EAK PORK and Muslims have fulfilled their obligations.

The rest of the Halal Certification is rubbish. Officially.

 

[Value Collector]

An intelligent Muslim's opinion on this. And from the daily mail...(LOL).


We Muslims should be appalled by the sale of halal meat by stealth



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2623879/We-Muslims-appalled-sale-halal-meat-stealth.html#ixzz3JAybnhcZ

I did a little bit of reading on the author of the article, I wouldn't say he represents the thinking of the majority, The author is not really published in any Muslim papers (other than his own news letter) and actually had to sue a Muslim papers because they were claiming he wasn't a real Muslim.

Just like any religion you are going to get a load of different opinions, just look at the wide differences in Christianity when it comes to birthcontrol.

Just because a free thinking woman that labels herself a Christian goes in the news paper and says birth control is ok, doesn't mean catholic doctrine suddenly changes.

 

[SirRumpole]

Just like any religion you are going to get a load of different opinions,

Yes , there are moderates and extremists, so why go with the views of the extremists ?

Unless some people can see dividends disappearing before their eyes.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes , there are moderates and extremists, so why go with the views of the extremists ?

I go with the view of freedom of religion, and also freedom to choose to eat or not eat what ever you want.

You really have to stop making references to my investments, the fact that a company that I own shares in has a few products that are halal certified doesn't affect my opinion this.

 

[SirRumpole]

I go with the view of freedom of religion, and also freedom to choose to eat or not eat what ever you want.

You really have to stop making references to my investments, the fact that a company that I own shares in has a few products that are halal certified doesn't affect my opinion this.

And you really must stop calling people racist for opposing religious superstition.

 

[Value Collector]

And you really must stop calling people racist for opposing religious superstition.

People??? I only used the term racism in relation to you.

And I have stopped, I only mentioned in relation to a specific comment, which you yourself admitted you would not have made if the person was white.

I don't think your "racist", I think it had more to do with mild xenophobia. But look i am not interested in going down this road again, just think about the real reasons you are opposed to it, you haven't really given any solid reasons yet.

 

[Calliope]

. But look i am not interested in going down this road again, just think about the real reasons you are opposed to it, you haven't really given any solid reasons yet.

And to date after an avalanche of posts going nowhere, you haven't provided any solid reasons why you favour halal labelling, except, maybe, vested interests, which would make sense.

I admit I am biased. I love pork spare-ribs.

 

[SirRumpole]

you haven't really given any solid reasons yet.

I'm almost speechless. I think you have a comprehension problem, but let me summarise

Religious certification-

* creates a divided society on religious lines
* creates untestable criteria for certfication (praying before slaughter, proper pronunciation of Allah etc)
* promotes and legitimises silly religious claptrap in a secular society (pork is unholy because God says so)
* encourages religious people not to trust the laws of the land they reside in
* is invalid because before certification, there was no guarantee that religious people have not eaten 'unholy' food, and if they haven't died yet then doing so is obviously not a mortal sin
* does not offer anything more than laws of false advertising do
* could breach Discrimination Laws by requiring religious affiliation for jobs in certified slaughterhouses

For starters

 

[boofhead]

I know it is off topic but SirRumpole you don't seem to be making much of stance against kosher marked foods. Next time you see a jar of Vegemite you can check it.

 

[luutzu]

I'm almost speechless. I think you have a comprehension problem, but let me summarise

Religious certification-

* creates a divided society on religious lines
* creates untestable criteria for certfication (praying before slaughter, proper pronunciation of Allah etc)
* promotes and legitimises silly religious claptrap in a secular society (pork is unholy because God says so)
* encourages religious people not to trust the laws of the land they reside in
* is invalid because before certification, there was no guarantee that religious people have not eaten 'unholy' food, and if they haven't died yet then doing so is obviously not a mortal sin
* does not offer anything more than laws of false advertising do
* could breach Discrimination Laws by requiring religious affiliation for jobs in certified slaughterhouses

For starters

Read before that if a Muslim must eat else he'd died, that is, eating for survival, it is Halal for him to eat non-Halal food. As long as he doesn't do it out of spite or something like that.

I think you have this backwards SirRumpole. It seems that the Muslims are being blamed for this "stealth" tactics or otherwise of turning our food Muslims/Islamic. They do nothing of the kind.

All they do, like all of us might do, is look for food prepared in accordance with their standard - in this case, religious standards. If the food are not to their standard, they don't buy it. Just like how some of us would only eat non-farmed seafood, or non-imported seafood... So if producers want to sell to the Muslims market, they either meet that standard or it just won't sell.

So if you have issue with your food being Halal-approved (as well as being acceptable to most non-Muslim people), take it up with the manufacturers.

 

[SirRumpole]

So if you have issue with your food being Halal-approved (as well as being acceptable to most non-Muslim people), take it up with the manufacturers.

I certainly will, by not buying their product. I hope others protest against religion intruding into our society by doing the same.

Read before that if a Muslim must eat else he'd died, that is, eating for survival, it is Halal for him to eat non-Halal food. As long as he doesn't do it out of spite or something like that.

So if a Muslim eats non-Halal without knowing it and that's OK, there is no need for certification is there, because what they don't know won't hurt them. Their only problem is when they deliberately eat pork or ham etc.

There are so many loopholes in this Halal business that there is no point having it, and taking of money for "certification" is unnecessary.

 

[Value Collector]

And to date after an avalanche of posts going nowhere, you haven't provided any solid reasons why you favour halal labelling, except, maybe, vested interests, which would make sense.

Freedom of religion and free market enterprise are both pretty solid reasons in my view, but its not up to me to justify something to prevent it being outlawed, its up to the people who want to out law it to show it causes harm, or encroaches on the rights of others.

I admit I am biased. I love pork spare-ribs.

I prefer a pulled pork sandwich myself