The symbol of the Halal Certification Authority Australia

[SirRumpole]

Just checked as advised by Boofhead and Vegemite is both Halal and Kosher, and owned by the Americans! Wait until Dick Smith hear about this.

There would be masses of food on the market that is both halal and kosher, for the reason of not containing any pork or pig products. I've no objection to that whatever. I have no objection to eating such food. I object to religions gaining a bounty for the official blessing of such food when people should just be able to advertise the virtues of their products without paying anyone for the privelege.

Egg companies can advertise their eggs as "free range", and some of them have been taken to court by the ACCC for false advertising. There is no "Free range eggs Certification Authority" as far as I know, because breaches of faith with the public are dealt with under legislation that applies to everyone.

 

[Value Collector]

Well, I thought it was your mission in life to talk people out of silly religious ideas, but now I find you are more interested in exploiting them for money.

You spent a lot of time ridiculing my belief in an afterlife, maybe I should be glad you didn't pose as a psychic and asked for money to contact my dead relatives.

You have zero credibility now on religious matters in my book.

I have always maintained I will stand up for religious freedom, I can't see why explaining to you that the beliefs you hold are unjustified, while also acknowledging you have the right to hold them makes me have less credibility.

I will talk to any religious person that wishes to discuss their religion with me, and then explain to them why their beliefs are unfounded, but I will always defend the right to freedom of religion.

My stance has never changed, if you go back to my oldest posts the two themes you will find running through all my posts is.

1, religion does good, but it has bad side effects, so it should be avoided because all the good things can be achieved in secular ways.

2, I believe in freedom of religion, you can build as many churches and have as many meetings as you want, just stay out of the government and public schools, and dont take public funds, practice your religion any way you want, just don't infringe on others religious rights or cause harm.

To get me to agree that halal certification should be stopped, you have to show that it either infringes on the rights of others or causes harm.

 

[Value Collector]

There would be masses of food on the market that is both halal and kosher, for the reason of not containing any pork or pig products. I've no objection to that whatever. I have no objection to eating such food. I object to religions gaining a bounty for the official blessing of such food when people should just be able to advertise the virtues of their products without paying anyone for the privelege.

Egg companies can advertise their eggs as "free range", and some of them have been taken to court by the ACCC for false advertising. There is no "Free range eggs Certification Authority" as far as I know, because breaches of faith with the public are dealt with under legislation that applies to everyone.

The RSPCA certified egg companies that met their criteria,

If a company decides to use certification as a way to promote a certain virtue of their product, why can't they?

Who's rights are being infringed?
Who is being harmed?
What laws are being broken?
How does it affect you?

 

[SirRumpole]

To get me to agree that halal certification should be stopped, you have to show that it either infringes on the rights of others or causes harm.

In fact I have never said religious certification should be made illegal. There is probably nothing we can or should do to outlaw it. I have showed why it should be opposed, why it is unnecessary and why it is an intrusion of religion into secular laws, and is simply another means of revenue raising for religion.

I intend not to buy any officially sanctioned religious goods for those reasons and I hope others protest as well.

 

[Value Collector]

I have showed why it should be opposed,

I don't think the reasons you gave were valid, we will have to just disaggree

why it is unnecessary

People want it, and that's their right. Lots of things are not necessary, does mean I don't want them.

and why it is an intrusion of religion into secular laws

,

How so?

I intend not to buy any officially sanctioned religious goods for those reasons.

Really, your giving up vegemite?

As I said, you would be much better off just ignoring it and making your decisions on quality and price.

 

[SirRumpole]

How so?

We have been through all this before

Really, your giving up vegemite?

.

Yes, because it gives me indigestion

I haven't eaten it for some time.

 

[Value Collector]

We have been through all this before


.

you haven't actually explained how it is an "an intrusion of religion into secular laws"

There are no laws about halal.

The only thing you say is that we already have laws against false advertising etc.

Certification doesn't intrude on false advertising laws, it just puts another set of eyes out their looking for it, and also helps those that want to comply actually go through the steps needed to make sure they are complying and don't end up making false claims.

If a company wants to make their products Halal, they would probably have to hire a consulted any way, and that consultant may end up being more expensive than getting certification by a company already set up to do it.

 

[SirRumpole]

Certification doesn't intrude on false advertising laws, it just puts another set of eyes out their looking for it, and also helps those that want to comply actually go through the steps needed to make sure they are complying and don't end up making false claims.

Religions are quite entitled to put out a statement of standards if they want to, and companies can advertise that they are conforming to those standards. Why should they have to pay for an "official blessing". Our laws and market are quite capable of ensuring compliance with standards. If Halal certification can add nothing to the current law and market system, then they are in fact receiving money for nothing. Hence the extortion claim.

 

[Value Collector]

Religions are quite entitled to put out a statement of standards if they want to, and companies can advertise that they are conforming to those standards. Why should they have to pay for an "official blessing". .

I am growing tired of your circular nature of your dishonest arguments, No is saying the "Have to", some companies just "choose to".

You need to stop repeating false statements.

Our laws and market are quite capable of ensuring compliance with standards. If Halal certification can add nothing to the current law and market system, then they are in fact receiving money for nothing. Hence the extortion claim

Extortion is - the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats

Name one company that has received threats or is being forced.

Do you have a problem with private companies doing fire safety certification?

 

[SirRumpole]

I am growing tired of your circular nature of your dishonest arguments, No is saying the "Have to", some companies just "choose to".

And I am growing tired of your hypocrisy.

You say that enslaving people with religious doctrine is evil and immoral, but you don't mind that religion controls a sector of a market with bogus claims that they will be punished by God if they eat "unholy" food, and then charges business a fee for access to that market.

Don't give me that freedom of religion stuff any more. People are getting the wool pulled over their eyes, are being enslaved by threats of holy punishment for eating perfectly harmless food, and that's fine by you. It's a con, a sham and immoral, but you go and make a few bucks out of it if that's all you are worried about.

 

[Value Collector]

And I am growing tired of your hypocrisy.

.

show me where I am guilty of hypocrisy? My position has never changed.

You say that enslaving people with religious doctrine is evil and immoral,

It is.

but you don't mind that religion controls a sector of a market with bogus claims that they will be punished by God if they eat "unholy" food,

It's peoples rights to live that way if they wish, Even a lot of non believers in the god claims still follow the practice for cultural reasons, Just like the Jewish, there is a big population of non believeing cultural Jews and muslims.

and then charges business a fee for access to that market

They are not charging a fee to access the market, they charge a fee for consulting service to answer an questions you have and also check out your operations.

In fact it's not much different to fire safety certification, if you want to make sure operations comply with the fire code, you can pay an expect body to audit you and make sure you comply, this in no way interferes with the government regulations.

Don't give me that freedom of religion stuff any more.

Do you not think freedom of religion is a good thing?

 

[SirRumpole]

show me where I am guilty of hypocrisy? My position has never changed.

Hypocrisy.

Religion is evil and immoral, except when we can make a buck out of it.

What would you say if the Catholic church started running brothels ?

Why don't you spend some time following your stated position on religion by explaining to people if you think they are being enslaved by bogus claims about "unholy" food ?

 

[Value Collector]

Hypocrisy.

Religion is evil and immoral, except when we can make a buck out of it.

I have always stated I believe in religious freedom, whether I make a buck or off something doesn't come into it.

In fact I was getting ready to write the company a letter as a shareholder, but decided to collect my facts before writing it, during my research I realised it didn't breech my beliefs on freedom of religion.

What would you say if the Catholic church started running brothels ?

I would be fine with that, I have no moral objection to prostitution, unless your inferring the catholic brothel would have child sex workers working there.

Why don't you spend some time following your stated position on religion by explaining to people if you think they are being enslaved by bogus claims about "unholy" food

I would like to talk people out of holding religious beliefs, but I don't want to infringe on their rights to practice it, or their right to maintain traditional practices absent of belief.

 

[SirRumpole]

I would like to talk people out of holding religious beliefs, but I don't want to infringe on their rights to practice it, or their right to maintain traditional practices absent of belief.

Well I see the whole religious certification idea as too similar to a protection racket.

You get a few vandals to damage some buildings and then extract money off tenants to see that it doesn't happen again.

The problem of course, is that there was no need for protection in the first place, because the people receiving the "consultation fees" caused the original problem.

 

[Value Collector]

Well I see the whole religious certification idea as too similar to a protection racket.

You get a few vandals to damage some buildings and then extract money off tenants to see that it doesn't happen again.

The problem of course, is that there was no need for protection in the first place, because the people receiving the "consultation fees" caused the original problem.

I know you see it that way, but its not like that at all.

 

[SirRumpole]

I know you see it that way, but its not like that at all.

Well it certainly isn't the pig farmers preaching to people that pork is "unholy"

 

[DB008]

Is the Muslim/Halal certification actually Government recognised? Or is it a self regulating unit?



Religious levy costs Queensland abattoirs thousands each month

QUEENSLAND abattoirs are being slugged thousands of dollars a month through a religious levy on meat exports so powerful Muslim clerics in Jakarta can raise money for Islamic schools and mosques.

The Halal certification fees can cost some meat processors up to $27,000 a month.

The Indonesian Council of Ulama (MUI), the top Islamic body which orders fatwa religious rulings, has even banned a Brisbane business from operating - because it was not charging Queensland abattoirs enough to give the religious tick-off to export meat.

The scandal has stopped most of Queensland's Halal meat exports to Indonesia, as angry abattoir operators boycott the more expensive Halal certifiers endorsed by the MUI.

Australian companies that certify meat as Halal, or legal under Islamic law, must be accredited with Indonesia's MUI - which approves just one certifier per state or territory.

The MUI has suspended Brisbane based Australian Halal Food Services (AHFS) for engaging in "unfair competition'' that could "weaken (the) Halal certification movement".

Certifiers must donate a share of their revenue to mosques and Islamic schools.

AHFS - which refused to comment on Saturday - sponsors the As-Salaam Institute of Islamic Studies, based in Eight Mile Plains. It has also spent funds repairing and maintaining mosques in Rochedale and Rockhampton.

One big Queensland meat processor, which did not want to be identified, claimed it had been quoted $27,000 a month in Halal certification fees through another MUI-endorsed certifier - four times more than AHFS had been charging

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/religious-levy-costs-queensland-abattoirs-thousands-each-month/story-fnihsrf2-1226743106235?nk=18872c2f54e99acbb1000e4e8c46ea9c

 

[SirRumpole]

Is the Muslim/Halal certification actually Government recognised? Or is it a self regulating unit?



Religious levy costs Queensland abattoirs thousands each month




http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/religious-levy-costs-queensland-abattoirs-thousands-each-month/story-fnihsrf2-1226743106235?nk=18872c2f54e99acbb1000e4e8c46ea9c

No extortion racket there eh ?

 

[Wysiwyg]

Religious levy costs Queensland abattoirs thousands each month

Can you imagine burly Tom Brown facing his butt to Mecca and reciting allahu akbar before and after the cut.

 

[luutzu]

Is the Muslim/Halal certification actually Government recognised? Or is it a self regulating unit?

Religious levy costs Queensland abattoirs thousands each month


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/religious-levy-costs-queensland-abattoirs-thousands-each-month/story-fnihsrf2-1226743106235?nk=18872c2f54e99acbb1000e4e8c46ea9c

Those Muslims, using their money to build and repair Mosques and Islamic schools! The horror! The terror!
Whatever happen to building Churches, or Synagogues, ey?

While we're at it, whatever happen to getting things for free? Where has the world gone to when a business have to pay, pay!, pay to gain access to a foreign market. Why.... that's like paying tariffs and taxes.