Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Not forgetting the poor share holders Any of you poor hold shares shares in beside silly me ????????//

Hi Great dame,
Thank you,
We will probably always disagree because I am only interested in getting all of my clients funds back over the next 3, 5 to 7 years with a regular cash flow distribution.
You may consider yourself to be more of a share holder than you are a PIF investor and therefore you may even be more interested in the liquidation of the fund to possibly enhance shareholders entitlements.
I am still interested in hearing the answer to my previous question.
Why did you invest into the PIF - Long or Short term?
Regards,
RickH

 

[ozzy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Ok - I finally managed to find this forum...felt very lonely and VERY frustrating to deal with the MFS/Octaviar/Wellington events the last 7 month..... Well, actually found the problems going waay far back..

Frontline staff at MFS/Perpetual has been either brainless or very well drilled monkeys.... and now it seems that the back-line (board members) have not been the best breed of bunch either...

Have lots to read up on in this forum but the truth is that all these events is just about beyond of what I thought was possible and certainly have drained the little fighting-spirit I had left..

I agree with Erniel, the board members that jumped the ship one by one and eventually handed the sick cow over to Wellington should be scrutinized to bits! All this has been a farse and seem to be a high-level criminal act to me.

There's gotta be some governemt interest in fully look into serious fraud and business ethics in this???

If the ship sinks I would like to see any previous captain(s) go with it and stick with personal debt to investors for the rest of their days...

I would like to see what in my opinion are dispicable rogues of primarily pensioners money ,the ilk of Peacock,King,white hutchings and the rest charged for fraud.
jh should really start proceedings as she is privvy to what she termed "inappropriate "
King is playing polo under a nom de plume while our investors are going through financial hell.( Bulletin)

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Fantastic. What are these better ways? I've got a big fat mortgage now. I've had a look at the numbers and if I can get the 45c out by this time next year I'm soooooooooo taking it.

Hi Duped,
Thank you,
We will probably always disagree because I am only interested in getting all of my clients funds back over the next 3, 5 to 7 years plus a regular income of say 6 cents per annum and I do not consider that 45 cents is a reasonable return.
Regards,
RickH
PS: YES THERE ARE AGENDAS.
I am grateful that Great dame and Duped have been truthful and said what they really want.

75% OF THE VOTE IS GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO ACHIEVE.

Unfortunately the odds may be heading towards - Liquidation.

For my clients to win the 75% vote we probably need to back JH 100%.
We cannot split the vote for the possibility of at least trying to grow the remaining fund to a $1.00 value.

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW WHO WANTS TO TRY TO RECEIVE THEIR 100% AND THOSE WHO WANT A QUICK 14 TO 30 OR MAYBE EVEN 45 CENTS IN THE DOLLAR.
If more than 25% want to collect fast money then the liquidation will win.
It amazes me that these people do not organise loans, but if they already have too much debt then they really do have a problem.

I feel that most invested into PIF for a regular income and if that is your position we need to consider the JH offer.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Great dame,
Thank you,
We will probably always disagree because I am only interested in getting all of my clients funds back over the next 3, 5 to 7 years with a regular cash flow distribution.
You may consider yourself to be more of a share holder than you are a PIF investor and therefore you may even be more interested in the liquidation of the fund to possibly enhance shareholders entitlements.
I am still interested in hearing the answer to my previous question.
Why did you invest into the PIF - Long or Short term?
Regards,
RickH

Well i cant say i realy felt real easy when i invested It being unrated and all but greed got the best of me 9% sounded preety good at the time RickH you should know of all folk that one never invests long term How are you /////

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Duped,
Thank you,
We will probably always disagree because I am only interested in getting all of my clients funds back over the next 3, 5 to 7 years plus a regular income of say 6 cents per annum and I do not consider that 45 cents is a reasonable return.
Regards,
RickH
PS: YES THERE ARE AGENDAS.
I am grateful that Great dame and Duped have been truthful and said what they really want.

75% OF THE VOTE IS GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO ACHIEVE.

Unfortunately the odds may be heading towards - Liquidation.

For my clients to win the 75% vote we probably need to back JH 100%.
We cannot split the vote for the possibility of at least trying to grow the remaining fund to a $1.00 value.

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW WHO WANTS TO TRY TO RECEIVE THEIR 100% AND THOSE WHO WANT A QUICK 14 TO 30 OR MAYBE EVEN 45 CENTS IN THE DOLLAR.
If more than 25% want to collect fast money then the liquidation will win.
It amazes me that these people do not organise loans, but if they already have too much debt then they really do have a problem.

I feel that most invested into PIF for a regular income and if that is your position we need to consider the JH offer.

To be honost i realy dont have a clue which way the vote will go The NSX is the BIG sticking point I hate it And wont have anything to do with it & it seems they with most of us it seeme If JH dont get the vote i am sure your clients wont hang you you might miss out on the Xmas cards though /////////

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Well i cant say i realy felt real easy when i invested It being unrated and all but greed got the best of me 9% sounded preety good at the time RickH you should know of all folk that one never invests long term in unratered products And talking about Bangheads How are you /////

Hi Great dame,
Thank you for asking.
I am very cheesed off because many people are saying that they really care for those disadvantaged but I believe that is really not the case.
I believe that loans can possibly be organised for those in desperate need for living expenses cash flow within the PIF structure as previously presented as a regular monthly advances based on say 15% loan interest rate.
It appears to me that you may only be interested in your personal financial position and that you understand more than the basics to risk and return.
I will assume that you have other funds invested elsewhere. That is fine.
But some of these PIF 'investors' are pensioners and may not have any other money to help them to meet their day to day expenses.
I believe that they should come first.
That does not mean $1.00 now but a drip feed loan and the 'chance' to get all of their money back over 3,5,7..
But if they can receive say 6 cents per annum. They may achieve close to their personally expected cash flow.
We all need to consider the less fortunate at this point in time.
I also believe that if the MFS executives acted improperly they should be dealt with to the absolute full extent that the law can punish via monetary and prison terms if at all applicable. The longer this fund runs the better chance we will have of legal action, if applicable.
JH may do it???? Who knows the future? But we should at least try.
LET US ALL WORK TOGETHER AND TRY TO RECOVER $1.00 PLUS 6 cents p.a.

TOGETHER WE CAN MONITOR JH' PLANS, PERFORMANCE AND RESULTS. SOME PRESSURE.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

So what are the better ways? So we can both get what we want.

You will have to wait and be pationt //////////

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Duped,
Thank you,
We will probably always disagree because I am only interested in getting all of my clients funds back over the next 3, 5 to 7 years plus a regular income of say 6 cents per annum and I do not consider that 45 cents is a reasonable return.
Regards,
RickH
PS: YES THERE ARE AGENDAS.
I am grateful that Great dame and Duped have been truthful and said what they really want.

75% OF THE VOTE IS GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO ACHIEVE.

Unfortunately the odds may be heading towards - Liquidation.

For my clients to win the 75% vote we probably need to back JH 100%.
We cannot split the vote for the possibility of at least trying to grow the remaining fund to a $1.00 value.

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW WHO WANTS TO TRY TO RECEIVE THEIR 100% AND THOSE WHO WANT A QUICK 14 TO 30 OR MAYBE EVEN 45 CENTS IN THE DOLLAR.
If more than 25% want to collect fast money then the liquidation will win.
It amazes me that these people do not organise loans, but if they already have too much debt then they really do have a problem.

I feel that most invested into PIF for a regular income and if that is your position we need to consider the JH offer.

I understand your position. You've got me wrong. I hold absolutely no hope of seeing 45c by this time next year and hence see no harm in stating my position. My vote will well and truly, albiet reluctantly, be with WC until I see a better option.
Some unit holders believe there are better options. Well I say - what are they? You can't say I haven't asked.

My exposure to PIF is far short of a tenth of others. Some are facing losses closer to a MILLION than half thereof. And have far less time to recover from their losses than I. With so much to lose, what are these individuals doing about courting alternatives to WC, or checking WC's figures? What I don't have, is spare time. Others do and I've already volunteered to help contribute financially to support activities of the AG.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Great dame,
Thank you for asking.
I am very cheesed off because many people are saying that they really care for those disadvantaged but I believe that is really not the case.
I believe that loans can possibly be organised for those in desperate need for living expenses cash flow within the PIF structure as previously presented as a regular monthly advances based on say 15% loan interest rate.
It appears to me that you may only be interested in your personal financial position and that you understand more than the basics to risk and return.
I will assume that you have other funds invested elsewhere. That is fine.
But some of these PIF 'investors' are pensioners and may not have any other money to help them to meet their day to day expenses.
I believe that they should come first.
That does not mean $1.00 now but a drip feed loan and the 'chance' to get all of their money back over 3,5,7..
But if they can receive say 6 cents per annum. They may achieve close to their personally expected cash flow.
We all need to consider the less fortunate at this point in time.
I also believe that if the MFS executives acted improperly they should be dealt with to the absolute full extent that the law can punish via monetary and prison terms if at all applicable. The longer this fund runs the better chance we will have of legal action, if applicable.
JH may do it???? Who knows the future? But we should at least try.
LET US ALL WORK TOGETHER AND TRY TO RECOVER $1.00 PLUS 6 cents p.a.

TOGETHER WE CAN MONITOR JH' PLANS, PERFORMANCE AND RESULTS. SOME PRESSURE.

AS your greadt leader Jenny tell you if your poor clients want to get some cash out ofthe fund you gon to a stockbrooker and sell you units on the DOPy NSX she cant go depleting the fund with handouts the fund to suvise has to get new money into that means new investers if she starts gearing the fund that could lead to more trouble /

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

You will have to wait and be pationt //////////

Eh! What's this 'be patient' all about? I was simply responding to your post that there was a better way. I'm happy to drop the question if you haven't already got a better way.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

AS your greadt leader Jenny tell you if your poor clients want to get some cash out ofthe fund you gon to a stockbrooker and sell you units on the DOPy NSX she cant go depleting the fund with handouts the fund to suvise has to get new money into that means new investers if she starts gearing the fund that could lead to more trouble /

With all due respect great dane, JH has already said she is willing to look at extreme hardship cases for some investors. Others have had their Centrelink payments adjusted and some self funded retirees will be eligible for part pensions to supplement incomes. Also there won't be too many other funds returning 6% plus for the next financial year. Could we at least wait and see what she is prepared to offer?The final investor forum was held today, everyone is entitled to their view and opinion and that can differ with each individual. We are all waiting for her presentation so as to make our decisions. Please at least hear her out. Thankyou, Seamisty

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

AS your greadt leader Jenny tell you if your poor clients want to get some cash out ofthe fund you gon to a stockbrooker and sell you units on the DOPy NSX she cant go depleting the fund with handouts the fund to suvise has to get new money into that means new investers if she starts gearing the fund that could lead to more trouble /

Hi Great dame,
We could approach JH to enable this loan process to be made available before the RE vote etc. We can help design part of the structure.
PIF can probably borrow funds at much lower rate than 15% and still make a profit going forward.
There is always a way to do something because we do have the time and the voting power to help organise the internal operations of the PIF.
I understand the problems associated with the NSX listing but at this point in time they are not as important as the upcoming 75% vote to continue PIF and not to liquidate. If JH cannot produce the results we could then vote to organise a new RE but in the future. JH is placing her credibility on the line. Let her have a go. But we need the loan clause in the basic structure.
The loans are only to be made available to those who are living expense cash flow desperate. They must prove that they are living expenses desperate.
1) Complete an in-depth loan application with assets, liabilities and sob story.
2) Provide two years tax returns.
3) Up to date Centrelink assets and income record.
4) The loan is to be based a drip feed system to help with their living cash flow requirements. etc...............
IT IS WORTH A TRY. IT COULD EVEN WORK 6 cents p.a. and $1.00 3,5/7 yrs is probably better than 30 cents next year.
Please consider.
$20,000 to some people is worth more than $1 million to another.
Regards,
RickH.
PS: We do have a problem with share holders because they will want to hinder any financial legal claims against their company’s' 'value'.

THE 75% VOTE IS NOT GOING TO BE EASILY ACHIEVED TO TRY FOR THE 6 CENTS & $1.00 VALUE.
WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I would think that shareholders are the least of our problem. Creditors will only receive part of their money, how the hell will shareholders ever see a cent. That company will never be revived again, you had to actually pay a company to buy scrip from you prior to 1 Jul to crystalise a loss to counter any capital gains you may have..that tells you what your MFS shares are worth!

If JH can come up with another exit LONG TERM strategy and NSX for those wanting cash now..she will get the 75% unit vote. You would think if she wants this bad enough she will impress us with what that strategy is.

If she can't then NSX was prob a way of manipulating that market to make money out of us and keep us in there forever in a day and this would be a way then for us to see beyond her 'stick with me' with no real meat to back it all up apart from just blind faith.

We have a right if we don't like what we hear before the vote to call an EGM..but we have to come up with resolutions that are superior than NSX, if we want to replace RE..with who? Liquidate can be an orderly wind up not just firesale and liquidator can also work with courts and NSX.

It would be easier to stick with WC..she just has to offer us some more than JUST NSX if she wants us to stick with her for the long haul and at the same time get income.

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

All

It was a big big day at the NXS today.

Two companies traded with a total value of $ 50 K.

One must ask the question in more depth why WC is pushing this dead end to nowhere against all logic.

It may well destroy any chance of 75% or is this part of another plan.

Comments please.

Splitpin

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Absolutely agree Split Pin

Jenny Hutson would undoubtedly get control of the RE without the NXS strategy . She is playing a very dangerous game by trying to force this down investors throats . It defies logic

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

From our local AG Port Macquarie secretary, part of the WC forum feedback is:

When queried about another option besides the NSx and that the AG was tired of Jenny dancing around the issue, Jenny responded, "I am getting my legal team to look at what is possible, I understand that you want an answer and will try and give it". Further, "If the NSX is working well, we will keep it going." I presume that means if it isn't working well, Jenny might DELIST from the NSX, but Jenny would have to specifically say that herself.

As to the strange short time frame (7 mths) of the liquidation, August 08 to March 31st, 09, if WC does not receive the 75% vote, a response from Jenny today, said it had something to do with "the 360 day time cycle coming up from the start of the freezing of our funds". My speculation is that that could be that we can then (possibly) make redemptions on the fund and send it into a tailspin, but that's only my guess.

As to the 75% requirement on the vote, instead of say, 51%, this is not some sort of tactic, but a requirement of the constitution.

A big thank you to all members of the Port Macquarie AG - you did us proud today.

Looking forward to any other contributions from Port Mac AG re todays WC forum meet.

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Not sure if the following article by Ben Butler in today's Herald Sun has been mentioned.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24019961-664,00.html

-----beginning of article------

Octaviar Share Mystery

by Ben Butler

July 15, 2008

OCTAVIAR boss Chris Scott is not obliged to reveal what has happened to his own shareholding in the teetering Gold Coast financier after the regulator yesterday said the company was in compliance with listing rules.

An unknown amount of Mr Scott's shareholding was seized by the ANZ last week. However, the company has yet to disclose the amount taken by the bank.

Last week ANZ revealed it held 5.05 per cent of Octaviar after it took control of scrip held by collapsed stock lender Primebroker.

In a statement on April 1, Octaviar said Mr Scott had 3.56 per cent of the company pledged as security on a margin loan, but since then the company has been silent on the fate of his stake.

Mr Scott used the scrip to raise a $19 million loan with Primebroker.

Yesterday stock exchange spokeswoman Roula Rodopoulos said it was up to the courts to decide who owned the shares.

But ANZ spokesman Paul Edwards said the bank did not know of any action against it over Primebroker. "There are not any court actions underway at this time with regard to Primebroker," he said.

Ms Rodopoulos said Octaviar was not in breach of the ASX listing rules covering lodging director interest notices.

"ASX is satisfied at this point in time that Octaviar is complying with its continous disclosure obligations with no current requirement to lodge a directors' interest notice," she said.

"It is up to the courts to decide who has legal ownership of the shares between ANZ and Octaviar (due to the Primebroker matter) and this is an area that ASX will not get involved in."

Before the ANZ seizure, Mr Scott's last declared stake in the company was 4.64 per cent.

He did not return calls yesterday.

Octaviar has been suspended from the stock exchange since January, when a debt crisis sent its share price into freefall.

--------end of article---------

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Wellington Capital Meeting by Port Macquarie AG
July 15, 2008

Westport Bowling Club Port Macquarie

General summary: I thought the meeting was encouraging. A lot of questions were answered – but not all. There are a lot of “ifs”. Much, I feel, depends on the state of the economy over the next 12 months, especially the property market.

Jenny Hutson came over as a strong intelligent and experienced woman. She promised us transparency.

She said she would treat the fund as if it was her own money.

She said her strategy was “Steady as she goes.”

She pointed out PIF had been a good fund in the past and she aimed to bring it back to its formed status.

We have little alternative but to trust her judgement and hope we get a better deal than we have had from MFS.



Meeting notes:

Jenny Hutson outlined history of the PIf and listed following facts –

PIF has 10,300 investors. Established 1998. First capital invested 1999. $400m under management.

Jan. 29 08 redemptions frozen for 180 days and distributions ceased.

May 2 2008 new board. Management taken over by WC. $100m debt reduced to $65m by May 30. Reduced to $40m by end June 08.

WC has talented team of 30 committed for the long term. WC has over $1b in assets.

Aim to reduce debt to bank by August 08 and list on NSX so investors who want to sell can do so.

Plan for 3cents distribution during first half of this financial year, in October (1.5) and December (1.5). Plan to distribute 6 cents next year in quarterly payments Hope to make a special one off distribution providing sale of assets allows.

Distribution will be part interest and part capital -but will be treated as capital for tax purposes.

Most Common Questions:

Is our money safe? A. We are working to that outcome.

Why freeze returns? A. Need to repay debt first.

How long before we get money? A. 3-5 years.

Management fees? A. MFS charged 2.3% we charge .75 cents.

Chris Scott of MFS and Jenny Hutson connection? A. We were in business together successfully but we are no longer in business together.

How did you arrive at 14 cents if company liquidated? A. Dreadful market at present.

Why allow meeting to decide re liquidation? A. It is up to investors.

Why should we trust you? A. Been in fund management for past 10 years. Track record of returning 7% - 15%. Grew S8 from $1 unit to $16.

Answers to Questions from floor
Centrelink: Have been in touch with Centrelink re fund’s position and trying to get a uniform adoption by Centrelink of 45 cents. Different branches appear to have taken different view. Will try to get a consistent approach.

6 cents will be paid in 4 parts over 12 months.

Insurance policy remains in place and covers legal claims. Made approach to Lloyds of London.

Re legal claim on $147.5m owed to fund by MFS – MFS has $450m in assets and debts of $1b. PIF one of 5 making claims Hope to make partial recovery – possibility of full recovery.

MFS has assets and has acknowledged $50m owing to fund – have had discussions re full return but cannot guarantee.

ASIC is looking at modifying the rules to better protect investors in future but not possible to protect everyone.

I have no units in the fund (J. Hutson).

Some of the commercial loans made by PIF have been renegotiated.

Perpetual remains custodian and has carried out what was required of them.

WC will communicate monthly with investors, plus face to face meeting will be held annually.





2.

I undertake there will be no transactions between this fund and other funds I am involved with.

Constitution requires a 75% vote in August on the question of liquidation.

Looking at alternatives to listing on NSX for those wanting to redeem capital.

Debt will be reduced to zero by end of July 08. Recovery of loans has been good and some loans renegotiated. Good relationship with bank.

Some projects owe the fund over $50m = larger projects are a problem.

Aim is to keep fund debt free in the future.

Will provide general but not specific details of assets, loans, due dates, etc.

Will supply unit holders with set of questions and answers from all forums.

Will be 6-9 months before fund looks for new investments.

MFS does not hold any units in fund now – units held were redeemed in August 2007.

Agreed local loan deal was bad (Aston Hill apartments in Mort St)

Moving from NSX to ASX is possible in year or two.66 entities listed on the NSX. 15 brokers.

Cash flow into fund - $1m last month. All funds being used to repay the bank to avoid receivership.

3 cents is coming from income and capital but will be paid out as capital. Distributions will not attract tax.

Unit numbers held by investors will remain the same.

WC has not taken over the debts but has purchased the management of the fund on behalf of unit holders.



Joan
Acting Port Macquarie AG secretary during Sue’s absence.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

With all due respect great dane, JH has already said she is willing to look at extreme hardship cases for some investors. Others have had their Centrelink payments adjusted and some self funded retirees will be eligible for part pensions to supplement incomes. Also there won't be too many other funds returning 6% plus for the next financial year. Could we at least wait and see what she is prepared to offer?The final investor forum was held today, everyone is entitled to their view and opinion and that can differ with each individual. We are all waiting for her presentation so as to make our decisions. Please at least hear her out. Thankyou, Seamisty

WC will decide on hard ship cases HEY And what will they get ?? not much i guess The fund is not returning 6% at all that is a return of capital of the fund bleading it in other words /////////

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Great dame,
We could approach JH to enable this loan process to be made available before the RE vote etc. We can help design part of the structure.
PIF can probably borrow funds at much lower rate than 15% and still make a profit going forward.
There is always a way to do something because we do have the time and the voting power to help organise the internal operations of the PIF.
I understand the problems associated with the NSX listing but at this point in time they are not as important as the upcoming 75% vote to continue PIF and not to liquidate. If JH cannot produce the results we could then vote to organise a new RE but in the future. JH is placing her credibility on the line. Let her have a go. But we need the loan clause in the basic structure.
The loans are only to be made available to those who are living expense cash flow desperate. They must prove that they are living expenses desperate.
1) Complete an in-depth loan application with assets, liabilities and sob story.
2) Provide two years tax returns.
3) Up to date Centrelink assets and income record.
4) The loan is to be based a drip feed system to help with their living cash flow requirements. etc...............
IT IS WORTH A TRY. IT COULD EVEN WORK 6 cents p.a. and $1.00 3,5/7 yrs is probably better than 30 cents next year.
Please consider.
$20,000 to some people is worth more than $1 million to another.
Regards,
RickH.
PS: We do have a problem with share holders because they will want to hinder any financial legal claims against their company’s' 'value'.

THE 75% VOTE IS NOT GOING TO BE EASILY ACHIEVED TO TRY FOR THE 6 CENTS & $1.00 VALUE.
WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.

Riickh if i wgas an invester advicer i might say the things your saying too to your clients that are in a bad way i feel sorry for them But right now i feel more sorry for my self Are you passing all this information to JH ?????