Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF
- Thread starter breaker1
- Start date
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Much appreciated Pixierich, will pass that on. Seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi All
Creditor Octaviar Update
Announced by: OCV
Announced on: 18/07/2008 12:19:00
http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/previewDocument.ac?docID=GCA00861380OCV&f=pdf
Wolfgang
Hi All
Creditor Octaviar Update
Announced by: OCV
Announced on: 18/07/2008 12:19:00
http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/previewDocument.ac?docID=GCA00861380OCV&f=pdf
Wolfgang
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi all, Would one of the fund managers or someone with some financial expertise and a bit of spare time please study the latest ASX release regarding OCV, summarize it and make comment please. Looks like OCV is trying to keep going or cut some sort of a deal with creditors and shareholders. I have to work today and because I am one of the boss's I can't get the sack!! Thanks Seamisty
Hi all, Would one of the fund managers or someone with some financial expertise and a bit of spare time please study the latest ASX release regarding OCV, summarize it and make comment please. Looks like OCV is trying to keep going or cut some sort of a deal with creditors and shareholders. I have to work today and because I am one of the boss's I can't get the sack!! Thanks Seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
haven't read thru all of the document yet - but in short the statement on page two says it all
"Other large creditors
The company will make offers next week to the Australian Taxation Office and the Premium Income
Fund. Such offers will be on broadly similar terms to the proposal put to the holders of the listed notes.
Discussions are currently taking place with OPI Pacific Finance Limited and its Trustee in order to
make a broadly similar offer to OPI Pacific Finance Limited and its investors."
Effectively what they are saying they are going to offer 22.5c in the dollar - i will keep reading to determine whether this means 22.5c on the dollar for the entire $197.5 mill identified as being owed or just on the $50mill that has been acknowledged by Octavier.
In simple terms $50 mill = $ 11,253,875 based on the formula for the note holders or $197.5mill = $44,437,500.
Let me keep reading and i will update as i read thru it.
Premium Income fund appears to be owed $210 mill by the financial statement attached - not the $197.5 thats being published in wellington documentation - i'm pretty certain the offer is only going to be on the $50 mill
haven't read thru all of the document yet - but in short the statement on page two says it all
"Other large creditors
The company will make offers next week to the Australian Taxation Office and the Premium Income
Fund. Such offers will be on broadly similar terms to the proposal put to the holders of the listed notes.
Discussions are currently taking place with OPI Pacific Finance Limited and its Trustee in order to
make a broadly similar offer to OPI Pacific Finance Limited and its investors."
Effectively what they are saying they are going to offer 22.5c in the dollar - i will keep reading to determine whether this means 22.5c on the dollar for the entire $197.5 mill identified as being owed or just on the $50mill that has been acknowledged by Octavier.
In simple terms $50 mill = $ 11,253,875 based on the formula for the note holders or $197.5mill = $44,437,500.
Let me keep reading and i will update as i read thru it.
Premium Income fund appears to be owed $210 mill by the financial statement attached - not the $197.5 thats being published in wellington documentation - i'm pretty certain the offer is only going to be on the $50 mill
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
this is getting better by the minute!!!
• PAC:
– 50% of PAC’s secured debentureholders (being $85 million) will
accept 22.5c / $1;
– 75% of PAC’s unsecured non-related noteholders (being $18 million)
will accept 15c / $1;
– PIF will accept 22.5c / $1 for its $123.7 million direct and indirect
participation loans with PAC, and assign the participation loans to the
Octaviar Group;
$27,832,500 to be paid to PIF and PIF can write off the rest and hand back the keys on this asset
– PIF will accept 15c / $1 for its unsecured PAC notes (being $23.6
million);
$3,540,000 to be paid to PIF in exchange or cancellation of these notes - balance to written off by PIF
and
– PAC will release the Octaviar Group from all other claims including the
damages claim for approximately $270 million;
• PIF: in addition to the above, PIF will:
– accept 22.5c / $1 for its $50 million Support Mechanism claim;$11,250,000 to be paid to PIF in in full and final settlement of this amount - PIF w/o's balance
– accept 22.5c / $1 related to the Maximum Yield investment ($30
million) and assign this asset to the Octaviar Group;
$6,750,000 to be paid to PIF and asset is assigned to Octavier to further claim permitted by PIF - PIF to w/o balance
– accept 22.5c / $1 for its further claim of $5.5 million;$1,237,500 to be paid to PIF and claim to be revoked - bal to be written off by PIF
and
– release the Octaviar Group and PAC from all claims (including the
litigation claim commenced);
PIF will then agree to release Octavier from any further legal proceedings / litigation claims etc
• ATO: liability of $52.4 million will be satisfied by the payment of cash
consideration at 22.5c / $1; and
• Interest
So in a nutshell the boys over at Octavier are going to offer you $50.6 mill in exchange for full and final settlement with PIF versus the $232.8mill they have disclosed in the above as being / owed / claimed by PIF.
If you agree to this - this will leave octavier with approx $30 mill in the bank and some sort of ongoing interest in Stella and some other business's - but PIF are out of their hair - there is no further correspondence to be entered into in so far as Octavier and PIF is concerned.
the financial assumptions in the report are based on the premise that creditors accept the proposals.
More to follow
this is getting better by the minute!!!
• PAC:
– 50% of PAC’s secured debentureholders (being $85 million) will
accept 22.5c / $1;
– 75% of PAC’s unsecured non-related noteholders (being $18 million)
will accept 15c / $1;
– PIF will accept 22.5c / $1 for its $123.7 million direct and indirect
participation loans with PAC, and assign the participation loans to the
Octaviar Group;
$27,832,500 to be paid to PIF and PIF can write off the rest and hand back the keys on this asset
– PIF will accept 15c / $1 for its unsecured PAC notes (being $23.6
million);
$3,540,000 to be paid to PIF in exchange or cancellation of these notes - balance to written off by PIF
and
– PAC will release the Octaviar Group from all other claims including the
damages claim for approximately $270 million;
• PIF: in addition to the above, PIF will:
– accept 22.5c / $1 for its $50 million Support Mechanism claim;$11,250,000 to be paid to PIF in in full and final settlement of this amount - PIF w/o's balance
– accept 22.5c / $1 related to the Maximum Yield investment ($30
million) and assign this asset to the Octaviar Group;
$6,750,000 to be paid to PIF and asset is assigned to Octavier to further claim permitted by PIF - PIF to w/o balance
– accept 22.5c / $1 for its further claim of $5.5 million;$1,237,500 to be paid to PIF and claim to be revoked - bal to be written off by PIF
and
– release the Octaviar Group and PAC from all claims (including the
litigation claim commenced);
PIF will then agree to release Octavier from any further legal proceedings / litigation claims etc
• ATO: liability of $52.4 million will be satisfied by the payment of cash
consideration at 22.5c / $1; and
• Interest
So in a nutshell the boys over at Octavier are going to offer you $50.6 mill in exchange for full and final settlement with PIF versus the $232.8mill they have disclosed in the above as being / owed / claimed by PIF.
If you agree to this - this will leave octavier with approx $30 mill in the bank and some sort of ongoing interest in Stella and some other business's - but PIF are out of their hair - there is no further correspondence to be entered into in so far as Octavier and PIF is concerned.
the financial assumptions in the report are based on the premise that creditors accept the proposals.
More to follow
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Have just been sent this .
Subject: Media Release from the Minister for Human Services, Senator Joe Ludwig [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Help available for pensioners affected by failed investments
Minister for Human Services, Senator Joe Ludwig, said help is available for Age Pensioners whose investments may be affected by the collapse of financial investment companies.
He said Age Pensioners’ income and assets may be revalued following a collapse, in some cases resulting in higher payments.
“The demise of several high profile finance companies last year had a significant impact on some Centrelink customers,” Senator Ludwig said.
“For example, around 20 per cent of retail investors caught up in the collapse of Australian Capital Reserve (ACR), Bridgecorp and Fincorp were Centrelink customers.”
“These customers had investments with the companies worth $134 million, or an average of $35,000 per person.”
More recently, the collapse of the Donovan Oates Hannaford Mortgage Corporation and Elderslie finance has created a great deal of uncertainty among investors, with receivers still involved with the arrangements for both these companies.
Senator Ludwig said Centrelink offers a number of useful free services which may assist customers with failed financial investments.
“Customers affected by a collapse are always encouraged to contact Centrelink on 13 2300 to discuss possible changes to their entitlements,” Senator Ludwig said.
“Regardless of whether a person’s payments are affected, the Financial Information Service is available to both customers and other members of the public. It’s free, and the specialist staff can provide financial information options and strategies.”
“The agency also has a network of social workers available who can provide additional assistance and referrals to other support services.”
Minister’s Media Contact: Joe Scavo 0413 800 757
Have just been sent this .
Subject: Media Release from the Minister for Human Services, Senator Joe Ludwig [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Help available for pensioners affected by failed investments
Minister for Human Services, Senator Joe Ludwig, said help is available for Age Pensioners whose investments may be affected by the collapse of financial investment companies.
He said Age Pensioners’ income and assets may be revalued following a collapse, in some cases resulting in higher payments.
“The demise of several high profile finance companies last year had a significant impact on some Centrelink customers,” Senator Ludwig said.
“For example, around 20 per cent of retail investors caught up in the collapse of Australian Capital Reserve (ACR), Bridgecorp and Fincorp were Centrelink customers.”
“These customers had investments with the companies worth $134 million, or an average of $35,000 per person.”
More recently, the collapse of the Donovan Oates Hannaford Mortgage Corporation and Elderslie finance has created a great deal of uncertainty among investors, with receivers still involved with the arrangements for both these companies.
Senator Ludwig said Centrelink offers a number of useful free services which may assist customers with failed financial investments.
“Customers affected by a collapse are always encouraged to contact Centrelink on 13 2300 to discuss possible changes to their entitlements,” Senator Ludwig said.
“Regardless of whether a person’s payments are affected, the Financial Information Service is available to both customers and other members of the public. It’s free, and the specialist staff can provide financial information options and strategies.”
“The agency also has a network of social workers available who can provide additional assistance and referrals to other support services.”
Minister’s Media Contact: Joe Scavo 0413 800 757
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
just quickly sum up the octavier statement in respect to PIF
PIF owed $232.8 mill thru various facilities
Octavier offer $50.6 mill
Octavier stay in business - but have no further liability to PIF
If i was JH - i'd be saying yes i will take your $50 mill off you now - but i also want some sort of additioanl payment in the future when the stella asset is sold ( maybe some sort of % of gross consideration).
The liquaidation off is approx 12c in the dollar - so getting 22c in the dollar now is probably reasonable - but if JH is half the business woman she thinks she is - she needs to keep an option open to get some more money back for PIF investors in the future - it cost PIF nothing for the option and if the asset kicks a goal PIF gets some of the upside - if it goes guts up and you get nothing back on the option - hey it cost nothing - but to just accept this offer without negotiating something for the agreement - she needs to show the Unit holders what shes capable of here.
Dont forget the fact that they are offering money to PIF on all these items is literally saying we are guilty - here take some money and go away - don't take the soft option - get the $50 mill in the tin - but make them keep working for the unit holders and hopefully the retun on this investment can improve over the next few years.
just quickly sum up the octavier statement in respect to PIF
PIF owed $232.8 mill thru various facilities
Octavier offer $50.6 mill
Octavier stay in business - but have no further liability to PIF
If i was JH - i'd be saying yes i will take your $50 mill off you now - but i also want some sort of additioanl payment in the future when the stella asset is sold ( maybe some sort of % of gross consideration).
The liquaidation off is approx 12c in the dollar - so getting 22c in the dollar now is probably reasonable - but if JH is half the business woman she thinks she is - she needs to keep an option open to get some more money back for PIF investors in the future - it cost PIF nothing for the option and if the asset kicks a goal PIF gets some of the upside - if it goes guts up and you get nothing back on the option - hey it cost nothing - but to just accept this offer without negotiating something for the agreement - she needs to show the Unit holders what shes capable of here.
Dont forget the fact that they are offering money to PIF on all these items is literally saying we are guilty - here take some money and go away - don't take the soft option - get the $50 mill in the tin - but make them keep working for the unit holders and hopefully the retun on this investment can improve over the next few years.
- Joined
- 30 May 2008
- Posts
- 328
- Reactions
- 0
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks for the info Deano1!
Are you able to answer these questions:
Thanks for the info Deano1!
Are you able to answer these questions:
- Whose decision is it? PIF unit holders or WC?
- Do all Octaviar’s creditors have to agree to a deal to prevent OCV liquidation?
- Does taking the deal mean we can’t sue or imprison an individual that is found to be fraudulent? (RE or OCV)
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
DoraNBoots
WC as Responsible entity is the one who makes the decisions on behalf of the unit holders so effectively the unit holders have given that responsiblity to WC as RE to make that decision - i'd think it would be prudent of WC to put this to unit holders at the up coming meeting?
No the directors of the company make the decision to go into liquidation - so thats why they are trying to convince creditors to accept the deal to avoid liquidation.
Taking the deal will pretty much in effect cease PIF from any further action - if there has been criminal activity or illegal activity then its going to be up to the regulators to persue that course of action - that said PIF / WC will be able to assist the regulators in those actions.
Hope that helps
DoraNBoots
WC as Responsible entity is the one who makes the decisions on behalf of the unit holders so effectively the unit holders have given that responsiblity to WC as RE to make that decision - i'd think it would be prudent of WC to put this to unit holders at the up coming meeting?
No the directors of the company make the decision to go into liquidation - so thats why they are trying to convince creditors to accept the deal to avoid liquidation.
Taking the deal will pretty much in effect cease PIF from any further action - if there has been criminal activity or illegal activity then its going to be up to the regulators to persue that course of action - that said PIF / WC will be able to assist the regulators in those actions.
Hope that helps
- Joined
- 30 May 2008
- Posts
- 328
- Reactions
- 0
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks Deano1,
Question 2 (again). If one of the 5 creditors don't take a deal, would that force OCV into liquidation and prevent the others from taking a deal?
Thanks Deano1,
Question 2 (again). If one of the 5 creditors don't take a deal, would that force OCV into liquidation and prevent the others from taking a deal?
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
its possible - i think from reading thru the documentation its probably likely that its going to be accepted - ( just my gut reaction) - but hopefully JH will be communicating to everyone soon that she has been contacted with regards to an offer of settlement and we can then see how she wishes to play it out - PIF unit holders probably have the strongest position to stop the scheme from going ahead of all the creditors - so if the unit holder of PIF are happy to accept the offer i'm pretty sure you will see the deal proceed - JH just needs to negotiate some better terms for the potential left in Octavier to produce some sort of dividend for units holders later.
its possible - i think from reading thru the documentation its probably likely that its going to be accepted - ( just my gut reaction) - but hopefully JH will be communicating to everyone soon that she has been contacted with regards to an offer of settlement and we can then see how she wishes to play it out - PIF unit holders probably have the strongest position to stop the scheme from going ahead of all the creditors - so if the unit holder of PIF are happy to accept the offer i'm pretty sure you will see the deal proceed - JH just needs to negotiate some better terms for the potential left in Octavier to produce some sort of dividend for units holders later.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks for that Deano1. A far cry from what is owed to the PIF. I am interested to see how long it will take JH to respond to the proposal from OCV and what her intentions are regarding the offer. I am also looking foward to feedback on here as to what other investors think of the offer. I guess at least this way if OCV can continue to operate it will give the shareholders a chance to not be left with nothing. Regards, Seamisty
Thanks for that Deano1. A far cry from what is owed to the PIF. I am interested to see how long it will take JH to respond to the proposal from OCV and what her intentions are regarding the offer. I am also looking foward to feedback on here as to what other investors think of the offer. I guess at least this way if OCV can continue to operate it will give the shareholders a chance to not be left with nothing. Regards, Seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
More like Chris Scott to be left with nothing. Let's see if JH squeezes him to get us a better deal with perhaps some future upside, thou I daresay if OCV gives us a better deal, then the other creditors will want that too..I think that ALL the creditors have to ask for future upside of OCV / Stella asset. This is the 1st offer to creditors..you NEVER accept the 1st offer in business, unless it's just so good to pass up, I think they can offer more! But yes $50m at this stage will help prop up our fund. JH stated that any proceeds from the $50m support will go straight to investors immediately, I think the 'special distribution' she had planned should come to us as soon as it comes in the door from OCV to cover the fact we have not had 1 cent in income apart from Jan all year..this will be of great reLief to a lot people!!!
More like Chris Scott to be left with nothing. Let's see if JH squeezes him to get us a better deal with perhaps some future upside, thou I daresay if OCV gives us a better deal, then the other creditors will want that too..I think that ALL the creditors have to ask for future upside of OCV / Stella asset. This is the 1st offer to creditors..you NEVER accept the 1st offer in business, unless it's just so good to pass up, I think they can offer more! But yes $50m at this stage will help prop up our fund. JH stated that any proceeds from the $50m support will go straight to investors immediately, I think the 'special distribution' she had planned should come to us as soon as it comes in the door from OCV to cover the fact we have not had 1 cent in income apart from Jan all year..this will be of great reLief to a lot people!!!
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
i think thats probably got more to do with PR than anything else - i think their logic is the smaller parcels of notes are probably held by mum & dad investors and they can keep 200 of them happy by paying them out in full - and probably garuntee themselves 40% vote in favour from these people alone ( not quite sure what the constitution of the note holders says re vote 75% of notes on issue or more likely 75% of individual noteholders vote in favour it goes ahead) i'd put money on it they have already sounded out the larger note holders and i think they feel pretty confident they will get this up - theres no rhyme or reason why they chose $5000 as the number - but like i said more to do with PR than anything else
i think thats probably got more to do with PR than anything else - i think their logic is the smaller parcels of notes are probably held by mum & dad investors and they can keep 200 of them happy by paying them out in full - and probably garuntee themselves 40% vote in favour from these people alone ( not quite sure what the constitution of the note holders says re vote 75% of notes on issue or more likely 75% of individual noteholders vote in favour it goes ahead) i'd put money on it they have already sounded out the larger note holders and i think they feel pretty confident they will get this up - theres no rhyme or reason why they chose $5000 as the number - but like i said more to do with PR than anything else
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks Deano1, really appreciate your time on this matter
I understand about the PR stunt but would ask the question aren't mum and dad and retirees the investors in the PIF?
Thanks Deano1, really appreciate your time on this matter
I understand about the PR stunt but would ask the question aren't mum and dad and retirees the investors in the PIF?
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
yep but dont forget octavier have no relationship to the PIF unit holders anymore - ( they have a moral obligation and thats about it ) they care about their shareholders - and getting an outcome that allows octavier to survive - PIF unit holders as they say are collateral damage - dont forget - Octavier gets liquidated the people running it are all out of jobs and the ones that have been involved with it for a while are virtually unemployable in their field of so called expertise - they need to get this deal done so they can start working on repairing their reputations ( if its possible) - if they need 75% of note holders to vote in favour - they have 40% of that total vote in the bag and only need to get another 35% - take a look at the liquidation valuations they have provided - i'd say anyone up to $25,000 is going to vote in favour as they are miles better off - and if theres 75% of total note holders that fall into that category they are home and hosed - PIF unit holder just need to make sure that when the offer is made JH is really twisting every drop of blood from the stone and leaving nothing on the table - hence my thought about getting an option of a future payout.
yep but dont forget octavier have no relationship to the PIF unit holders anymore - ( they have a moral obligation and thats about it ) they care about their shareholders - and getting an outcome that allows octavier to survive - PIF unit holders as they say are collateral damage - dont forget - Octavier gets liquidated the people running it are all out of jobs and the ones that have been involved with it for a while are virtually unemployable in their field of so called expertise - they need to get this deal done so they can start working on repairing their reputations ( if its possible) - if they need 75% of note holders to vote in favour - they have 40% of that total vote in the bag and only need to get another 35% - take a look at the liquidation valuations they have provided - i'd say anyone up to $25,000 is going to vote in favour as they are miles better off - and if theres 75% of total note holders that fall into that category they are home and hosed - PIF unit holder just need to make sure that when the offer is made JH is really twisting every drop of blood from the stone and leaving nothing on the table - hence my thought about getting an option of a future payout.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Yes Deano, BUT will she give her old mate that squeezing? This will separate the BS from the truth as to whether she is TRULY working for us, or she will let CS off easily..meaning he keeps all of 35% of Stella and $30m cash in bank to live another day..that is just too easy for all the wrongs OCV have done..way TOO EASY!!!
Yes Deano, BUT will she give her old mate that squeezing? This will separate the BS from the truth as to whether she is TRULY working for us, or she will let CS off easily..meaning he keeps all of 35% of Stella and $30m cash in bank to live another day..that is just too easy for all the wrongs OCV have done..way TOO EASY!!!
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
javier - its not all beer and skittles for octavier there is literally no value left in it and they have to really make that stella asset work out for them - there is a little poison pill in there that could result in CVC ending up with all of stellar - theres a potential contingent liability in there that literally could wipe out that investment pretty much and trust me - i have dealt with CVC before there are pretty much no better negotiators than these guys and if they can get hold of all of stellar they will - everyone needs to take the emotion out of the issue now - look at it logically and say 22c is better than 12c - 22c plus some upside is better than 22c - WC / JH really get to prove to you unit holders how fair dinkum she really is now - and if she is serious in saying there is no conflict of interest - then nows the time to prove it to the people who have invested money in PIF and extract some extra value over and above the $50 mill thats on the table - she likes quoting teddy roosevelt - when nows her opportunity to prove how presidential she is and lead on this issue and lead strongly - if she does - back the woman with everything you've got - if she doesnt then - we really are up that creek without a paddle
javier - its not all beer and skittles for octavier there is literally no value left in it and they have to really make that stella asset work out for them - there is a little poison pill in there that could result in CVC ending up with all of stellar - theres a potential contingent liability in there that literally could wipe out that investment pretty much and trust me - i have dealt with CVC before there are pretty much no better negotiators than these guys and if they can get hold of all of stellar they will - everyone needs to take the emotion out of the issue now - look at it logically and say 22c is better than 12c - 22c plus some upside is better than 22c - WC / JH really get to prove to you unit holders how fair dinkum she really is now - and if she is serious in saying there is no conflict of interest - then nows the time to prove it to the people who have invested money in PIF and extract some extra value over and above the $50 mill thats on the table - she likes quoting teddy roosevelt - when nows her opportunity to prove how presidential she is and lead on this issue and lead strongly - if she does - back the woman with everything you've got - if she doesnt then - we really are up that creek without a paddle
