Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I don't read it like this marcom. I think it is more like 755.2 mil units issued as at 31 Mar 08 per OCV website..this is a constant as it was well and truly frozen when that last investor update was posted. JH is saying there are $690m possible funds remaining (if we get full value of assets realised / max loan repaid..but of course that will not happen..or any time soon anyway), but if we did get all $690m then we are looking at a value of approx 91.3 c/ unit. Once the bank is paid and we find out where that $200m loan went and the value left then we will know the true value of our $1 unit..I suspect this to be south of 80cents..JH knows within 10c of what our current position is pending PWC assesment..this is why we NEED to get the best deal as a 20-30% reduction in our funds in NOT acceptable..we want someone that will eventually deliver close to 100% and some distribution income along the way..I believe a fund with $$ to add value and ongoing future value exists out there and I will not give up and accept some token amount, for something that can have a lot more worth, if WC can deliver fine, if not we have to take control and find the right people to align ourselves with.
Let's not forget that any change in the constitution of the fund will require a high amount of votes from current investors by WC anyway, so getting a vote for something better will take the same amount of numbers either way. Please believe we can turn a positive out of this negative we are in now..things happen for a reason. I believe JH having the re at the moment is a good thing, she may be the one..but we have to consider all as we only get one real shot at this and the right move will give us the ability to share in the prosperous components of the fund and not just sell it off cheaply and let another party add $$mil in book value with our hard earned cash.
I don't read it like this marcom. I think it is more like 755.2 mil units issued as at 31 Mar 08 per OCV website..this is a constant as it was well and truly frozen when that last investor update was posted. JH is saying there are $690m possible funds remaining (if we get full value of assets realised / max loan repaid..but of course that will not happen..or any time soon anyway), but if we did get all $690m then we are looking at a value of approx 91.3 c/ unit. Once the bank is paid and we find out where that $200m loan went and the value left then we will know the true value of our $1 unit..I suspect this to be south of 80cents..JH knows within 10c of what our current position is pending PWC assesment..this is why we NEED to get the best deal as a 20-30% reduction in our funds in NOT acceptable..we want someone that will eventually deliver close to 100% and some distribution income along the way..I believe a fund with $$ to add value and ongoing future value exists out there and I will not give up and accept some token amount, for something that can have a lot more worth, if WC can deliver fine, if not we have to take control and find the right people to align ourselves with.
Let's not forget that any change in the constitution of the fund will require a high amount of votes from current investors by WC anyway, so getting a vote for something better will take the same amount of numbers either way. Please believe we can turn a positive out of this negative we are in now..things happen for a reason. I believe JH having the re at the moment is a good thing, she may be the one..but we have to consider all as we only get one real shot at this and the right move will give us the ability to share in the prosperous components of the fund and not just sell it off cheaply and let another party add $$mil in book value with our hard earned cash.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Good afternoon everyone
It appears that information regarding the financial position PIF will be released by RE in early July.
The lawyer I have suggested is for intially just ensuring that if the action group deems it appropriate a call for a meeting is done in a properly constituted mnner.
I suggest even at this point you need to call your own investors only meeting even if its done in a number of places with telephone link up and microphone. I am sure some of the newspapers would have meeting rooms and they would offer microphone and telephone hook up and would love to listen to the meeting.
You need a committee formed to represent your interests to WC and any other party that may be interested in the opportunity of assisting in the work out.
I would then suggest that members of the action group provide a power of attorney to the committee members jointly providing them with the power to call a meeting and do what ever else is required to protect the action groups rights and interests.
The power of attorney will short cut the requirement later if it is deemed appropriate to call a meeting to get 100 signatures onto a document. It allows for far more collective bargaining power.
The legal costs relate to ensuring that you can create a structure through your group and its committee can take the required action quickly and easily. The legal costs will not be large for this part but ensures it is properly constituted.
The issues I guess you are talking about Seamisty is suing the RE or the parent company which is a totally different matter and there will be plenty of legal groups that will take that one on through a fee from any sucessful claim provided there is something left in OCV or there are insurance policies.
Again the power of attorney creates a collective bargaining position for dealing with the litagation specialists.
It would be good if you had the above in place by the roadshow as then there can be ensured a warts an all position.
One issue I am grappling with is that WC option involves a payment to OCV based on some form of work out solution.
It would seem crazy to see any funds go to this company after the position you have been placed in. Whatever happens not one cent should go to OCV as it had alternatives in dealing with the asset (shares in RE) that would have reduced your losses I believe but chose one that placed it in the best bargaining position on the 50 million guarantee.
Any money paid by WC should come back to PIF if it is deemed by the investors that they are the best group for the task ahead.
And that leads me to the second issue in that with the reports of a NSX listing to create liquidity this raises the value of what collectively you provide your manager.
If the fund is just a work out and overtime you grab whats left and ride off onto the sunset that has one value as a fund.
If on the other hand you collectively say no we will stick together, list this the units in the fund to provide liquidity and slowly overtime move to acquiring real income earning assets with growth that has a two fold effect.
It allows rebuilding of value overtime and it now a permanent fund that has significant value to its manager. You collectively create that value not the manager so who gets the value of that asset.
I think your numbers are about to snowball so I hope Breaker can cope or gets some help with the registry.
Goodluck and stay positive.
Good afternoon everyone
It appears that information regarding the financial position PIF will be released by RE in early July.
The lawyer I have suggested is for intially just ensuring that if the action group deems it appropriate a call for a meeting is done in a properly constituted mnner.
I suggest even at this point you need to call your own investors only meeting even if its done in a number of places with telephone link up and microphone. I am sure some of the newspapers would have meeting rooms and they would offer microphone and telephone hook up and would love to listen to the meeting.
You need a committee formed to represent your interests to WC and any other party that may be interested in the opportunity of assisting in the work out.
I would then suggest that members of the action group provide a power of attorney to the committee members jointly providing them with the power to call a meeting and do what ever else is required to protect the action groups rights and interests.
The power of attorney will short cut the requirement later if it is deemed appropriate to call a meeting to get 100 signatures onto a document. It allows for far more collective bargaining power.
The legal costs relate to ensuring that you can create a structure through your group and its committee can take the required action quickly and easily. The legal costs will not be large for this part but ensures it is properly constituted.
The issues I guess you are talking about Seamisty is suing the RE or the parent company which is a totally different matter and there will be plenty of legal groups that will take that one on through a fee from any sucessful claim provided there is something left in OCV or there are insurance policies.
Again the power of attorney creates a collective bargaining position for dealing with the litagation specialists.
It would be good if you had the above in place by the roadshow as then there can be ensured a warts an all position.
One issue I am grappling with is that WC option involves a payment to OCV based on some form of work out solution.
It would seem crazy to see any funds go to this company after the position you have been placed in. Whatever happens not one cent should go to OCV as it had alternatives in dealing with the asset (shares in RE) that would have reduced your losses I believe but chose one that placed it in the best bargaining position on the 50 million guarantee.
Any money paid by WC should come back to PIF if it is deemed by the investors that they are the best group for the task ahead.
And that leads me to the second issue in that with the reports of a NSX listing to create liquidity this raises the value of what collectively you provide your manager.
If the fund is just a work out and overtime you grab whats left and ride off onto the sunset that has one value as a fund.
If on the other hand you collectively say no we will stick together, list this the units in the fund to provide liquidity and slowly overtime move to acquiring real income earning assets with growth that has a two fold effect.
It allows rebuilding of value overtime and it now a permanent fund that has significant value to its manager. You collectively create that value not the manager so who gets the value of that asset.
I think your numbers are about to snowball so I hope Breaker can cope or gets some help with the registry.
Goodluck and stay positive.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Javier
I think we said a few of the same things.
Any change in RE is a drawn out process and there are things happening currently that will impact on investors returns.
I still remain confused about the LLA deal in terms of what PIF stands to get.
If it is a haircut why does PIF have to do it.
If it is because RBOS will cut the throat of the 11,000 investors by appointing a receiver if it does not get cash then WC or the press should ask that question and make RBOS say that to the world.
They are down from 180 million and are getting all of the cash investors are supposed to be getting so why do we have to be crucified in LLA if that is the deal.
Why cant PIF get half the deal that Artic is getting and RBOS wait a little longer for its cash. LLA appears to be strong cash producing businessees so let the 11,000 partner with James (owner or Artic)
Maybe Javier you can ask that question of WC.
Whats the deal for LLA and if we are taking the loss why cant PIF roll into equity in partnership with Artic.
Javier
I think we said a few of the same things.
Any change in RE is a drawn out process and there are things happening currently that will impact on investors returns.
I still remain confused about the LLA deal in terms of what PIF stands to get.
If it is a haircut why does PIF have to do it.
If it is because RBOS will cut the throat of the 11,000 investors by appointing a receiver if it does not get cash then WC or the press should ask that question and make RBOS say that to the world.
They are down from 180 million and are getting all of the cash investors are supposed to be getting so why do we have to be crucified in LLA if that is the deal.
Why cant PIF get half the deal that Artic is getting and RBOS wait a little longer for its cash. LLA appears to be strong cash producing businessees so let the 11,000 partner with James (owner or Artic)
Maybe Javier you can ask that question of WC.
Whats the deal for LLA and if we are taking the loss why cant PIF roll into equity in partnership with Artic.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Also Tuart and Javier,If WC did not negotiate the $50million Support Facility prior to becoming RE to the Fund I don't think we will get it. The following is written in the PDS::The MFS Support Facility will remain in force for so long as MFSIM or a Related Party remains the RE of the Fund. In the event that MFSIM retires, resigns or is removed as RE of the Fund and is not replaced by a related party, MFS Limited will be entitled by notice in writing to terminate the MFS Support Facility immediately. If MFS Limited terminates the MFS Support Facility, MFS'S obligations under the MFS Support Facility will cease immediately. However, any money paid by MFS Limited under the MFS Support Facility will remain the property of the Fund and MFS Limited has no claim for the repayment of that money if the MFS Support Facility is called upon.::::::There has been no mention that JH has negotiated this payment. Regards,Seamisty
Also Tuart and Javier,If WC did not negotiate the $50million Support Facility prior to becoming RE to the Fund I don't think we will get it. The following is written in the PDS::The MFS Support Facility will remain in force for so long as MFSIM or a Related Party remains the RE of the Fund. In the event that MFSIM retires, resigns or is removed as RE of the Fund and is not replaced by a related party, MFS Limited will be entitled by notice in writing to terminate the MFS Support Facility immediately. If MFS Limited terminates the MFS Support Facility, MFS'S obligations under the MFS Support Facility will cease immediately. However, any money paid by MFS Limited under the MFS Support Facility will remain the property of the Fund and MFS Limited has no claim for the repayment of that money if the MFS Support Facility is called upon.::::::There has been no mention that JH has negotiated this payment. Regards,Seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
No deal has been as yet been entered into with Arctic by PIF, this is still being negotiated and I guess is one of the main points of consideration for Packer, he is trying to buy the $63mil cheaply and I hope JH is not backing down..he is the vulture fund getting LLA's assets cheaply and on top of that will form a ski resort monopoly AND in the process trying to screw us even more! The RBOS I think may be more flexible soon as to perhaps allow some sort of distribution to happen in the coming months, but by then they would have got most if not all their $$..I know JH is trying to get refinancing on the RBOS debt..but I guess in the current climate it's not that easy. Timing is crucial..if she gets a replacement for RBOS fairly quickly (I believe they are nearly there), then we may be able to get all our debt and then some from LLA if Arctic wants LLA and it's assets (which they have stated they "like very much")..I think it all depends on whether he can get it cheap enough before OCV gets put into receivership, then he will have to stave off the other vultures rather than do it now on his terms.
No deal has been as yet been entered into with Arctic by PIF, this is still being negotiated and I guess is one of the main points of consideration for Packer, he is trying to buy the $63mil cheaply and I hope JH is not backing down..he is the vulture fund getting LLA's assets cheaply and on top of that will form a ski resort monopoly AND in the process trying to screw us even more! The RBOS I think may be more flexible soon as to perhaps allow some sort of distribution to happen in the coming months, but by then they would have got most if not all their $$..I know JH is trying to get refinancing on the RBOS debt..but I guess in the current climate it's not that easy. Timing is crucial..if she gets a replacement for RBOS fairly quickly (I believe they are nearly there), then we may be able to get all our debt and then some from LLA if Arctic wants LLA and it's assets (which they have stated they "like very much")..I think it all depends on whether he can get it cheap enough before OCV gets put into receivership, then he will have to stave off the other vultures rather than do it now on his terms.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I believe she is / will negotiate is and hopefully it will be in a cash up front figure + a further payment schedule as asset sales are carried out in an orderly fashion. We will hopefully get the same ratio as Challenger, Note Holders (PTQ) and the other unsecured mentioned creditors..the only thing is they only have $170mil in cash in the bank and this has to satisfy all creditor agreements..but they do have to start coming to terms soon or they will have a receiver in there by mid next month, it will be hard but it's the only way!!
I believe she is / will negotiate is and hopefully it will be in a cash up front figure + a further payment schedule as asset sales are carried out in an orderly fashion. We will hopefully get the same ratio as Challenger, Note Holders (PTQ) and the other unsecured mentioned creditors..the only thing is they only have $170mil in cash in the bank and this has to satisfy all creditor agreements..but they do have to start coming to terms soon or they will have a receiver in there by mid next month, it will be hard but it's the only way!!
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Looks like Wellington is now in control. Is this true? I assume it is, as was is in the Australian Financial Review.
Does that mean Wellington handed over $20 Million to Octaviar, and then Octaviar will hand over $50 Million, so as to keep everyone at Wellington
encased in their mansions and jobs?
Was some arrangement between Wellington and Chris Scott?
I have good news, in that the meeting will soon be scheduled.
Cheers,
Looks like Wellington is now in control. Is this true? I assume it is, as was is in the Australian Financial Review.
Does that mean Wellington handed over $20 Million to Octaviar, and then Octaviar will hand over $50 Million, so as to keep everyone at Wellington
encased in their mansions and jobs?
Was some arrangement between Wellington and Chris Scott?
I have good news, in that the meeting will soon be scheduled.
Cheers,
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I have asked the question many times and I was also always led to Believe Perpetual were the Custodians of the MFS/Octaviar premium Income fund and as such the RE were not allowed trade or sell assets unless it had the explicit consent from the Custodian.
I don’t understand how the RBOS and LLA can access our funds for debt and loans which were never disclosed until after the stopping of distributions to Investors.
Does anyone know if Perpetual are doing anything on the Investors behalf?
Perhaps there’s a legal question that needs to be asked in regards to the custodian.
If Octaviar does goes into liquidation. I’m sure Wellington Capital will also be vying for the properties which the PIF have helped finance. They would be crazy if they didn’t.
My guess is Artic Capital will be stalling as long they can as well.
I have asked the question many times and I was also always led to Believe Perpetual were the Custodians of the MFS/Octaviar premium Income fund and as such the RE were not allowed trade or sell assets unless it had the explicit consent from the Custodian.
I don’t understand how the RBOS and LLA can access our funds for debt and loans which were never disclosed until after the stopping of distributions to Investors.
Does anyone know if Perpetual are doing anything on the Investors behalf?
Perhaps there’s a legal question that needs to be asked in regards to the custodian.
If Octaviar does goes into liquidation. I’m sure Wellington Capital will also be vying for the properties which the PIF have helped finance. They would be crazy if they didn’t.
My guess is Artic Capital will be stalling as long they can as well.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Have just read this on Business Spectator - Abstracted from The Australian Financial Review
Premium cheques on the way
Things are looking up for investors in the frozen Premium Income Fund, as several borrowers have agreed to refinance and reduce the debt facility by $A35 million. On 11 June 2008 Jenny Hutson of Wellington Investment Management said the 10,300 investors can expect some payments within months. Since she acquired the fund in early May 2008, Hutson has been at pains to restructure operations to distance the fund from its previous association with Octaviar
I cant read the full article as you need to be a paying subscriber to AFR at a cost of $109
Have just read this on Business Spectator - Abstracted from The Australian Financial Review
Premium cheques on the way
Things are looking up for investors in the frozen Premium Income Fund, as several borrowers have agreed to refinance and reduce the debt facility by $A35 million. On 11 June 2008 Jenny Hutson of Wellington Investment Management said the 10,300 investors can expect some payments within months. Since she acquired the fund in early May 2008, Hutson has been at pains to restructure operations to distance the fund from its previous association with Octaviar
I cant read the full article as you need to be a paying subscriber to AFR at a cost of $109
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks Seamisty, it makes very interesting reading.
This is a extract of the interview
"Ms Hutson said investors could expect expect some returns before the end of the year"
"Right now we have investor funds of $690 million but not all that is recoverable" she said
"She said Wellington had excercised a call option yesterday, which meant that Wellington Capital now had control of the responsible entity of PIF"
"Our great desire is to sever all connection with Octaviar"
What does this mean for us
Thanks Seamisty, it makes very interesting reading.
This is a extract of the interview
"Ms Hutson said investors could expect expect some returns before the end of the year"
"Right now we have investor funds of $690 million but not all that is recoverable" she said
"She said Wellington had excercised a call option yesterday, which meant that Wellington Capital now had control of the responsible entity of PIF"
"Our great desire is to sever all connection with Octaviar"
What does this mean for us
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
If the remaining value is currently $690m but not all recoverable, then the most we will see is 88 cents in the dollar providing that the value is not eroded from this point. However if not all of the $690m is recoverable then we are looking at some figure below this who knows what that will be. For us personally we have $85K in the PIF and $30k in LLA which has gone. If we can get 85 cents in the dollar back on our PIF investment I will be surprised.
If there was anyone with any money that we could sue we would, but I'm afraid we are wasting our time and sending good money after bad.
If the $35m paid back by borrowers was put into the RBOS loan then the remaining value to be paid would be some where in the vicinity of $32m.?? If something could be done to refinance this amount and free the fund from RBOS control then perhaps it would not fall into the hands of the hatchet men (liquidators), and possibly see an orderly trade out of the problems and we get more of our money back.
If the remaining value is currently $690m but not all recoverable, then the most we will see is 88 cents in the dollar providing that the value is not eroded from this point. However if not all of the $690m is recoverable then we are looking at some figure below this who knows what that will be. For us personally we have $85K in the PIF and $30k in LLA which has gone. If we can get 85 cents in the dollar back on our PIF investment I will be surprised.
If there was anyone with any money that we could sue we would, but I'm afraid we are wasting our time and sending good money after bad.
If the $35m paid back by borrowers was put into the RBOS loan then the remaining value to be paid would be some where in the vicinity of $32m.?? If something could be done to refinance this amount and free the fund from RBOS control then perhaps it would not fall into the hands of the hatchet men (liquidators), and possibly see an orderly trade out of the problems and we get more of our money back.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks for the link Seamisty,
I'm not too sure what the NSX comment means.
Is it JH's plan to convert all $1.00units into shares and its up to the Investors to use those "15 stockbroking firms" mentioned to try and then on-sell those shares at whatever the market value is then given to them?
Got a flashliight? we're still in the dark .Anyone got any ideas on what she was quoted on?
Thanks for the link Seamisty,
I'm not too sure what the NSX comment means.
Is it JH's plan to convert all $1.00units into shares and its up to the Investors to use those "15 stockbroking firms" mentioned to try and then on-sell those shares at whatever the market value is then given to them?
Got a flashliight? we're still in the dark .Anyone got any ideas on what she was quoted on?
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
From a guestimate comment made by an ASIC officer to an investor it may be around 80c in the $ - but don't quote me on that!
From a guestimate comment made by an ASIC officer to an investor it may be around 80c in the $ - but don't quote me on that!
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I dislike getting my news first on what's happening to this fund through the media. Why does Ms Hutson speak freely to the AFR before putting out a bulletin to PIF investors? From my point of view, this is a bad PR start by WC. Who counts more in JH's mind? An AFR interview or the investors? Thousands of investors have no idea what's happening with the fund. This thread is the only sound source of information available - thanks to many contributors with a rare understanding of the complexities involved.
The agenda of Ms Hutson's forums is most important. The Past and the Present must not be sidelined by the Future. Watch out for verbiage telling us that the past is the past.!
I dislike getting my news first on what's happening to this fund through the media. Why does Ms Hutson speak freely to the AFR before putting out a bulletin to PIF investors? From my point of view, this is a bad PR start by WC. Who counts more in JH's mind? An AFR interview or the investors? Thousands of investors have no idea what's happening with the fund. This thread is the only sound source of information available - thanks to many contributors with a rare understanding of the complexities involved.
The agenda of Ms Hutson's forums is most important. The Past and the Present must not be sidelined by the Future. Watch out for verbiage telling us that the past is the past.!
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Below is information from todays Herald Sun (Melbourne).
Given that the WC deal was announced yesterday, and we now have this announcement today, could I be sceptical enough to think that they know something about the future of Octaviar that we do not know??
THE Kiwi arm of teetering Gold Coast financier Octaviar has decided that a guarantee with a face value of $NZ415 million ($A333 million) provided by its parent is now worthless.
In a deal that sees no cash change hands, OPI New Zealand has decided to cancel the guarantee in return for the refund of a $2 million fee.
In a statement to the New Zealand Exchange on Wednesday, OPI New Zealand said there was no "reasonable prospect" the deeds could be exercised or "be assigned for value".
"Accordingly, a release and discharge has been provided," the company said.
It said the $2 million fee it paid Octaviar for the options had been rebated "against existing debts owed by subsidiaries . . . to Octaviar".
The company said it had entered into the "call option deeds" with Octaviar, then known as MFS, in December 2006.
Corporate filings show that under the terms of the options, Octaviar said it would "purchase any of Pacific's (an OPI subsidiary) assets at cost under certain circumstances".
Octaviar's half-year financial report for the period ending December 2006 valued those assets at $NZ415 million.
But since then, OPI New Zealand has been hard-hit by the wave of collapses that has swept the Kiwi finance sector.
Last week, its stock was suspended from the New Zealand Exchange after it failed to file its annual report on time.
Octaviar could face liquidation at the hands of its creditors unless it can do a deal with them by close of business today.
The Public Trustee of Queensland, acting on behalf of noteholders owed about $350 million, has launched winding-up action against the company in the Queensland Supreme Court.
A hearing is scheduled for Monday.
Below is information from todays Herald Sun (Melbourne).
Given that the WC deal was announced yesterday, and we now have this announcement today, could I be sceptical enough to think that they know something about the future of Octaviar that we do not know??
THE Kiwi arm of teetering Gold Coast financier Octaviar has decided that a guarantee with a face value of $NZ415 million ($A333 million) provided by its parent is now worthless.
In a deal that sees no cash change hands, OPI New Zealand has decided to cancel the guarantee in return for the refund of a $2 million fee.
In a statement to the New Zealand Exchange on Wednesday, OPI New Zealand said there was no "reasonable prospect" the deeds could be exercised or "be assigned for value".
"Accordingly, a release and discharge has been provided," the company said.
It said the $2 million fee it paid Octaviar for the options had been rebated "against existing debts owed by subsidiaries . . . to Octaviar".
The company said it had entered into the "call option deeds" with Octaviar, then known as MFS, in December 2006.
Corporate filings show that under the terms of the options, Octaviar said it would "purchase any of Pacific's (an OPI subsidiary) assets at cost under certain circumstances".
Octaviar's half-year financial report for the period ending December 2006 valued those assets at $NZ415 million.
But since then, OPI New Zealand has been hard-hit by the wave of collapses that has swept the Kiwi finance sector.
Last week, its stock was suspended from the New Zealand Exchange after it failed to file its annual report on time.
Octaviar could face liquidation at the hands of its creditors unless it can do a deal with them by close of business today.
The Public Trustee of Queensland, acting on behalf of noteholders owed about $350 million, has launched winding-up action against the company in the Queensland Supreme Court.
A hearing is scheduled for Monday.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi Breaker 1 count me in,
having been caught up in the Westpoint debacle it is important that as a group we think things through intelligently and try to keep emotions in the background once there are investor meetings organised emotions can turn these meeting into a free for all and we loose all credibility.
Hi Breaker 1 count me in,
having been caught up in the Westpoint debacle it is important that as a group we think things through intelligently and try to keep emotions in the background once there are investor meetings organised emotions can turn these meeting into a free for all and we loose all credibility.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Folks, I have just joined this group on behalf of my elderly & frail Dad (87) who is now not capable of fighting his own battles. From what I have seen it is highly likely that his PIF units are now worthless but I will subscribe (on his behalf) to any group-based action that has a reasonable chance of forcing disclosure from Wellington Capital etc. provided that the cost is modest. Sadly, I tried to warn him of MFS' troubles back in January but he didn't want to hear it
Folks, I have just joined this group on behalf of my elderly & frail Dad (87) who is now not capable of fighting his own battles. From what I have seen it is highly likely that his PIF units are now worthless but I will subscribe (on his behalf) to any group-based action that has a reasonable chance of forcing disclosure from Wellington Capital etc. provided that the cost is modest. Sadly, I tried to warn him of MFS' troubles back in January but he didn't want to hear it
