Wealth Inequality

[burglar]

Manufacturing is running from first world countries to third world countries.

China and Thailand make our glass.
Soon they will be making our cars. (4 cylinder Commodores!)

The drift of manufacturing has already raised the likes of Japan and Taiwan, China and Thailand.

It will raise India, Brasil, Russia and eventually places like Pakistan.

And who knows, America may make a comeback!

 

[waimate01]

I guess my main point is that the economy is not a cake where if i take a larger slice, you automatically get a smaller one. If i my company makes a million dollars, it's because i have delivered more than a million dollars of value back into the economy, I haven't stolen from anyone and nobody got less, we all got more.

My staff had more shifts available
My suppliers had greater sales
I paid more taxes
My customers had products they needed
And i made a profit, which i then reinvest the bulk of, or i spend generating more of the same benefits listed above for other businesses.

Nice post.

It's hard to believe, but there really are plenty of people in the world who passionately believe that if you do manage to get ahead in the manner you're describing, it can only be done at the expense of someone else. Bizarre, right? My theory is they hold this view mostly to make themselves feel better about never having pulled their finger out and had a crack themselves. A harmless enough delusion. But they vote. And breed

 

[craft]

I thought that you were some how suggesting it was immoral that a person could amass large amounts of personal fortune when there are others in the world living in poverty.

You seem to spend a lot of time arguing against things you THOUGHT I was suggesting. So be it - I'm not here to argue.

No

There is community in the third world, very strong community's..its how they survive extreme poverty, when good fortune smiles on one or a small group it is shared around, and expected to be...fertile ground is managed and worked, water a vital resource, intelligence is local and based on living to see tomorrow.

With respect: Anyone who spends more than 5 minutes close up and personal in the third world knows that...community is a vital part of staying alive, poverty is what they are trying to overcome and that's not easy when everyone is poor...the **** i have seen people do for a couple of dollars is amazing.

If only more had this wider perspective and experience.

Nice post.

It's hard to believe, but there really are plenty of people in the world who passionately believe that if you do manage to get ahead in the manner you're describing, it can only be done at the expense of someone else. Bizarre, right? My theory is they hold this view mostly to make themselves feel better about never having pulled their finger out and had a crack themselves. A harmless enough delusion. But they vote. And breed

Nice post - NOT.

That the current system requires growth in ABSOLUTE (overall) terms in an finite planet is legitimate grounds for concern. Its going to take a huge amount of non-closed thinking to deal with the environmental limitations we already know about at current levels of economic activity.

Even with the strongest belief in trickle down economics - surely a thinking/caring person would look at the global resources at hand and the current outcomes and question how well it is working for everybody. Yet the only answer we seem to get is more growth - More of the same - Isn't the saying that, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

 

[burglar]

... insanity.

Hi craft,

You have hit on it.
insanity

What were Easter islanders thinking when they uprooted their last tree?
What am I thinking when I fuel my car?

Pure insanity!

 

[craft]

What were Easter islanders thinking when they uprooted their last tree?
What am I thinking when I fuel my car?

Pure insanity!

You have a very succinct way with words. Reminds me of an ancient American saying I first saw on a T-shirt.

When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money.
~ Cree Prophecy

Burglar inspiration t-shirts – put me down for a half dozen..

 

[burglar]

You have a very succinct way with words. Reminds me of an ancient American saying I first saw on a T-shirt ...

Musta been a big T-shirt! :

seriously craft,

I like to think people will see the direction in which they travel is wrong.
I like to see us do a U-turn.

 

[skc]

I'd like to see more school organised trips to 3rd world countries. Get kids exposed to the bigger world picture from a young age. Plant a seed in their head so they understand there's such inequality in the world... and being there in person will no doubt leave a lasting impression.

They will themselves decide wheher it is something that is unjust or acceptable, and whether they will do something about it. Do this kind of program well enough and we may begin to see fundamental changes in thinking over a few decades.

 

[Klogg]

I'd like to see more school organised trips to 3rd world countries. Get kids exposed to the bigger world picture from a young age.

I like the idea, but there are significant safety concerns that come with it. Most 3rd world countries have some form of travel alert on smarttraveller stating travel to the area should be limited, or something of the sort.

Try getting that passed the parents, most of which don't think about wealth inequality.

 

[ftw129]

Craft,

What is the purpose of this thread?

(This is not a rhetorical question)

 

[burglar]

Craft,

What is the purpose of this thread?

(This is not a rhetorical question)

You can put 4 people in a field.
At day's end, one will be a feudal lord.
And three will be surfs.

Even when they go to drown their sorrows,
they will be in a tavern they built,
drinking beer that they brewed,
and all of it owned by the lord.

Your mission should you choose to accept it:
Recreate the equality!

 

[robusta]

You crack me up burglar and make a good point.v

 

[Julia]

I think all we should ‘teach’ our children is how to think independently. Then expose them to as much variety as possible and they will learn and learn far more than we can ever ‘teach’ them.

That is to assume the parents have the capacity to teach their children any such skill. It is simply not the case in much of the population.
Many children are therefore dependent on rational offerings from the school curriculum.

Re an earlier suggestion that children should be taken as part of the school program to third world countries, perhaps consider that many parents in lower socioeconomic areas have trouble finding the money to fund a day excursion. never mind an overseas trip.
Neither should schools take on the responsibility of keeping children safe in countries where safety is an issue, even for independent adults.

There seems to be an impression that no reference is made in schools to disadvantaged third world countries.
As part of a school mentoring program I've been in several classes, usually Grades 4 and 5, where a video has been shown depicting the lives of children scavenging in rubbish dumps. The teacher has then led a quite astonishingly perceptive discussion comparing the lives of these children with those in the class, many of whom we middle class people would consider decidedly disadvantaged.

The remarks of the children would put many of the commentators on this thread to shame with their perception and purity, especially in the generosity of spirit they showed in not criticising anyone who disagreed with them.

There's no shortage of disadvantaged people right here in Australia. It might be good if some of the critics of western civilisations could look at doing something themselves as individuals before engaging in so much self-flagellation about the evils of our capitalist society. Perhaps it's my own social milieu, but all around me I see people giving their time and skills to AusAid overseas and personally engaging in helping others, both in terms of time and money right in their own community.
Seems more constructive to me than celebrating greater profits every year on a personal basis.

 

[craft]

Craft,

What is the purpose of this thread?

(This is not a rhetorical question)

I don't know.

Am I supposed to assign it a purpose?

 

[burglar]

I don't know.

Am I supposed to assign it a purpose?

You've done well to start and guide the thread.
I am still not sure of the purpose.

Part of the fun ain't it? :

 

[ftw129]

There's no shortage of disadvantaged people right here in Australia. It might be good if some of the critics of western civilisations could look at doing something themselves as individuals before engaging in so much self-flagellation about the evils of our capitalist society. Perhaps it's my own social milieu, but all around me I see people giving their time and skills to AusAid overseas and personally engaging in helping others, both in terms of time and money right in their own community.
Seems more constructive to me than celebrating greater profits every year on a personal basis.

Julia, I couldn't agree more.

I don't know.

Am I supposed to assign it a purpose?

That's a real shame.

Such threads could actually be of real benefit if the participants (and creators) would be willing to share just what it is they actually do, in order to address the issues that they seem to care so much about.

What do YOU personally do that demonstrates your concerns about the issues raised and what actions do you take on a regular basis that others can emulate? How do you lead by example?

I'll tell you where you (anyone reading this) can start...

Accept responsibility and take control of your own actions so that they reflect your beliefs. That is all that each and every single person on this planet can do.

The problem we have is that we're all too concerned about what everyone else is doing.

 

[skc]

Re an earlier suggestion that children should be taken as part of the school program to third world countries, perhaps consider that many parents in lower socioeconomic areas have trouble finding the money to fund a day excursion. never mind an overseas trip.
Neither should schools take on the responsibility of keeping children safe in countries where safety is an issue, even for independent adults.

There seems to be an impression that no reference is made in schools to disadvantaged third world countries.
As part of a school mentoring program I've been in several classes, usually Grades 4 and 5, where a video has been shown depicting the lives of children scavenging in rubbish dumps. The teacher has then led a quite astonishingly perceptive discussion comparing the lives of these children with those in the class, many of whom we middle class people would consider decidedly disadvantaged.

I made the comments about exposing school kids to world issues early without knowing what school kids are really being taught these days. I was simply making a suggestion from personal experience.

When I was at school there were plenty of focus ski trips, but nothing to 3rd world country. Yes, not everyone can afford an overseas trip but at least the option is available to those who'd like to attend. And I have read or watched plenty of documentaries on 3rd world countries and issues etc, but the impact was a million times greater when I had the opportunities to travel there and experience it in person first hand. And hence my suggestion.

This is unlikely to be a solution to the inequality issue... but I'd imagine the issue cannot be solved with a single action anyway. It may need hundreds and thousands of smaller changes to eventually turn the tide very gradually.

 

[craft]

That's a real shame.

Not really,

In the absence of me not assigning it a purpose you have been able to branch it down a certain path with your post.

Such threads could actually be of real benefit if the participants (and creators) would be willing to share just what it is they actually do, in order to address the issues that they seem to care so much about.

I don’t want to share what I do personally - Some people want to be acknowledged in the area some want to be anonymous. If you want to share in such a way – go for it. The thread has no purpose no boundaries, share your hart out.

I feel sad that somehow I have given you cause to put 'seems' to care in italics.

What do YOU personally do that demonstrates your concerns about the issues raised and what actions do you take on a regular basis that others can emulate? How do you lead by example?

Again, for me this is private – not public forum content. I don’t wish to lead anybody, I’m happy to just try and provoke some thinking. But I’m more than happy for you to share what you do if you think that will have a benefit.

I'll tell you where you (anyone reading this) can start...

Accept responsibility and take control of your own actions so that they reflect your beliefs. That is all that each and every single person on this planet can do.

I may be naïve but I work under the premise that people do take actions that reflect their beliefs. That’s why my posts to the thread only try to be thought provoking rather than telling people what to do. Open minded personal thinking can change personal beliefs.

The problem we have is that we're all too concerned about what everyone else is doing.

I made the initial post after hearing about the G20 growth target and the assertion that more growth would help the less fortunate without work for example in our country and without a lot more in other countries. My observation (and I think it's as obvious as dogs balls) is that money system is concentrating wealth at an extraordinary rate, rather then circulating benefits to where they are needed the most and more of the same isn’t going to fix that. That’s something I can’t fix personally, the best I could do was start this thread to provoke some thinking. I’m sorry I haven’t posted in a way that meets with your approval – but one thing I have learnt about forums is that I can’t please some people.

 

[ftw129]

Craft,

What is the purpose of this thread?

(This is not a rhetorical question)

I don't know.

Am I supposed to assign it a purpose?

Craft, do you mind if we start again?

Craft,

What is the purpose of this thread?

(This is not a rhetorical question)

My observation (and I think it's as obvious as dogs balls) is that money system is concentrating wealth at an extraordinary rate, rather then circulating benefits to where they are needed the most and more of the same isn’t going to fix that. That’s something I can’t fix personally, the best I could do was start this thread to provoke some thinking.

The End.....(Meaning, no response from me)

 

[craft]

Craft, do you mind if we start again?

The End.....(Meaning, no response from me)

Last edited by ftw129; Today at 11:22 AM. Reason: Punctuation makes all the difference

Not to a near illiterate like me.

Maybe my 'reason' for starting the thread satisfies you 'purpose' question? I don't see reason and purpose as the same thing so may have misinterpreted your initial question.

Maybe you don't want to answer the questions you asked of me, so are looking for an out?

Maybe I'm to thick to even bother with?

Anyway -I'm confused, but that's a pretty normal state for me, so happy to let it be.

 

[Julia]

When I was at school there were plenty of focus ski trips, but nothing to 3rd world country. Yes, not everyone can afford an overseas trip but at least the option is available to those who'd like to attend. And I have read or watched plenty of documentaries on 3rd world countries and issues etc, but the impact was a million times greater when I had the opportunities to travel there and experience it in person first hand. And hence my suggestion.

I understand that, skc, and agree about the personal impact being greater in the reality.

However, there are many programs where volunteers are welcomed in several countries, often specially run in school holidays, so that young people can not only observe conditions far removed from most of Australia, but have the opportunity to make a contribution. Individuals, and small groups, can pursue this sort of endeavour as they can afford, and they do, often instead of engaging in the drunken rioting that seems to constitute "Schoolies" at the end of the year.

This is unlikely to be a solution to the inequality issue... but I'd imagine the issue cannot be solved with a single action anyway. It may need hundreds and thousands of smaller changes to eventually turn the tide very gradually.

Exactly, and that's why if we all adopt some of the many opportunities right here in Australia to address some of the disadvantage, then surely it's better than just being a critic.

This is a great country, despite those aspects which we all - with validity - complain about. People are doing good things every day. I genuinely worry about how we focus on what we can criticise, rather than what we might be proud of.