Wealth Inequality

[sydboy007]

Would the fact Australia came in fourth for attrracting millionaires to emmigrate help or hinder wealth inequality

http://qz.com/449621/the-worlds-super-rich-are-seeking-second-citizenship-in-these-eight-countries/

 

[notting]

It brings wealth into the country, problem is if it is Chinese and they start getting into our political system we are stuffed. Head for Canada or New Zealand if the pricks start to corrupt everything.

 

[Smurf1976]

Would the fact Australia came in fourth for attrracting millionaires to emmigrate help or hinder wealth inequality

Interesting that the UK stands out as well ahead of anyone else, more than double the next highest (USA).

I wonder if that's because it's easier to move there? Or some other reason?

 

[McLovin]

Interesting that the UK stands out as well ahead of anyone else, more than double the next highest (USA).

I wonder if that's because it's easier to move there? Or some other reason?

South-eastern England is exceedingly wealthy. That part of the UK attracts millionaires. The Maastricht Treaty and the tax light structure that non-dom status affords means the UK is a pretty good place for millionaires who like a place that never snows and is never sunny and doesn't tax them too much. About six years ago I had to sell my grandparents second home in Belgravia, in London, I remember as a kid going there (late 80s early/mid90s) and it was a wealthy community but it was a community, now it's just apartments and houses owned by non-resident owners who need to get their money out of whatever country they're from; the streets are deserted.

 

[sydboy007]

Interesting that the UK stands out as well ahead of anyone else, more than double the next highest (USA).

I wonder if that's because it's easier to move there? Or some other reason?

I believe it revolves around the UK targeting wealthy foreigners. I watched a doco on how the UK used the non dom tax structure to attract the super rich to the UK. It was supposed to benefit the country via trickle down economics.

now as a super rich millionaire of billionaire I bet the below sounds a very tempting tax offer.

http://www.rosebank-uk.com/worldwide-location/uk-non-dom-rules/

The United Kingdom offers an attractive tax regime for those individuals who are resident in the UK but do not have UK domicile, such individuals are often referred to as ‘resident non-doms’.

An individual who fulfils the criteria, and who has foreign income and/or foreign capital gains, can elect to be taxed in the UK on the advantageous remittance basis of taxation. Under this scheme the individual can elect to pay a fixed annual charge, currently £30,000 or £50,000, known as the remittance basis charge.

All it seems to have done it made London property a target for money of questionable origins.

Likely happening in Sydney too now, and maybe Melbourne to a degree.

 

[sydboy007]

helps to put into perspective just how good the majority of us have it in Australia

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/07/08/the_rise_of_the_global_middle_class.html

The Pew Research Center is out with a new report on the growth of the global middle class that, if you're not the sort of person who lives to ponder foreign development or how to sell sneakers in China, is mostly interesting because of how it puts America's incredibly high standards of living into a bit of perspective. Here's the stat that jumped out at me most: As of 2011, only 16 percent of the world lived on the equivalent of at least $20 a day, the cutoff for "upper-middle income." In the United States, Pew notes, the poverty line works out to just under $16 per day for each member of the household.

 

[Mrmagoo]

Fact is Australia is no longer a western country, we are an Asian country now and with that comes the wealth inequality and corruption of Asia. I won't be surprised if in a few decades white Australians are mostly confined to ghettos suburbs on the cities fringe and in rural areas. They'll be much poorer than the Asian/Indian city workers who have access to Asian education and work experience, so they'll come over here with experience and education that locals cannot access.

The question of Australians as an interest group will be referred to as "those people who live outside the city" and won't be given much of a thought. We'll be a minority group to the international Asian community who use Australia for various purposes.

 

[Sir Burr]

"those people who live outside the city"

Like those indigenous?

 

[sydboy007]

Fact is Australia is no longer a western country, we are an Asian country now and with that comes the wealth inequality and corruption of Asia. I won't be surprised if in a few decades white Australians are mostly confined to ghettos suburbs on the cities fringe and in rural areas. They'll be much poorer than the Asian/Indian city workers who have access to Asian education and work experience, so they'll come over here with experience and education that locals cannot access.

The question of Australians as an interest group will be referred to as "those people who live outside the city" and won't be given much of a thought. We'll be a minority group to the international Asian community who use Australia for various purposes.

But the big Australia policy supported by both major parties is for our own good. The fact that they're not willing to fund the infrastructure required to house a new Brisvegas of population every 3 to 4 years is nothing to be worried about. Crushed on trains during peak times, sitting in traffic most of the time, faced with expensive tolls if you need to get somewhere in a reasonable time frame.

prob the best thing of the economic slow down we're approaching is that imported pop growth is going to slow, and if we're lucky might go negative for awhile.

 

[againsthegrain]

Fact is Australia is no longer a western country, we are an Asian country now and with that comes the wealth inequality and corruption of Asia. I won't be surprised if in a few decades white Australians are mostly confined to ghettos suburbs on the cities fringe and in rural areas. They'll be much poorer than the Asian/Indian city workers who have access to Asian education and work experience, so they'll come over here with experience and education that locals cannot access.

The question of Australians as an interest group will be referred to as "those people who live outside the city" and won't be given much of a thought. We'll be a minority group to the international Asian community who use Australia for various purposes.

Good post Magoo, thats exactly how it's folding out

 

[Mrmagoo]

Like those indigenous?

I wouldn't know. I've never done anything to any indigenous person, in fact coming from a foreigner, that is actually a very racist argument. I could talk about the atrocities committed by many immigrant races, but I do not, as that would be racist.

 

[sptrawler]

Fact is Australia is no longer a western country, we are an Asian country now and with that comes the wealth inequality and corruption of Asia. I won't be surprised if in a few decades white Australians are mostly confined to ghettos suburbs on the cities fringe and in rural areas. They'll be much poorer than the Asian/Indian city workers who have access to Asian education and work experience, so they'll come over here with experience and education that locals cannot access.

The question of Australians as an interest group will be referred to as "those people who live outside the city" and won't be given much of a thought. We'll be a minority group to the international Asian community who use Australia for various purposes.

Sadly, I think you are probably right, unless some other western super power wants to champion our cause.

But I haven't seen any indication of that.

 

[luutzu]

I wouldn't know. I've never done anything to any indigenous person, in fact coming from a foreigner, that is actually a very racist argument. I could talk about the atrocities committed by many immigrant races, but I do not, as that would be racist.

Seriously White people... I know a large part of you guys are neglected and doesn't seem to get the life and hope the previous generation seem to have... But it's not the fault of the immigrants, Asian or otherwise.

The only reason no recent immigrant complaint about Australia is because no matter how bad they have it, no matter how many hours they have to work to make ends meet, it's paradise compare to where they came from. They're not, not complaining because they took all the welfare and feed off of society and grow fat and rich.

Take a look at the tax policies each year... read up a couple of "indepth" analysis and see who it always benefit more - you or the guy with a few millions or couple hundred millions? You think new immigrants working at Seven-11 could afford a $20,000 fundraising plate? You seriously think a bunch of, mostly White guys, in Parliament have more in common and more sympathy for non-White poor people? If they'd care for anyone more, you'd have a better chance they'd care for White poor people more for no other reason than ey, blood is thicker than...

And man, do you seriously think a multi-millionaire Asian from, say China, would have anything in common with a common Aussie Asian serving them at some city restaurant? They might like the same food, but one can afford it and the other might have to do with instant noodle after work.

Not saying rich people are bad and poor are good. Just that race have little to do with it and money have a lot to do with a lot of things - including sending your kids to what school and what friends they make.

 

[Mrmagoo]

Seriously White people... I know a large part of you guys are neglected and doesn't seem to get the life and hope the previous generation seem to have... But it's not the fault of the immigrants, Asian or otherwise.

The only reason no recent immigrant complaint about Australia is because no matter how bad they have it, no matter how many hours they have to work to make ends meet, it's paradise compare to where they came from. They're not, not complaining because they took all the welfare and feed off of society and grow fat and rich.

Take a look at the tax policies each year... read up a couple of "indepth" analysis and see who it always benefit more - you or the guy with a few millions or couple hundred millions? You think new immigrants working at Seven-11 could afford a $20,000 fundraising plate? You seriously think a bunch of, mostly White guys, in Parliament have more in common and more sympathy for non-White poor people? If they'd care for anyone more, you'd have a better chance they'd care for White poor people more for no other reason than ey, blood is thicker than...

And man, do you seriously think a multi-millionaire Asian from, say China, would have anything in common with a common Aussie Asian serving them at some city restaurant? They might like the same food, but one can afford it and the other might have to do with instant noodle after work.

Not saying rich people are bad and poor are good. Just that race have little to do with it and money have a lot to do with a lot of things - including sending your kids to what school and what friends they make.

You don't know history. Most Australians descend from the scum of England, where workers were oppressed by the middle class and came to places like Australia and the USA and made for themselves a better life than the horrors of the British Isles.

This is not some magical fairy land of entitlement. Australia is the way Australia is because of a series of decisions made by people in our early history who came from the old world and didn't want Australia to turn out just like that.

Middle class people are pricks. They're the main political force that call for the crushing of the working class. The ruling elite would never have the numbers in a democracy to do that.

 

[luutzu]

You don't know history. Most Australians descend from the scum of England, where workers were oppressed by the middle class and came to places like Australia and the USA and made for themselves a better life than the horrors of the British Isles.

This is not some magical fairy land of entitlement. Australia is the way Australia is because of a series of decisions made by people in our early history who came from the old world and didn't want Australia to turn out just like that.

Middle class people are pricks. They're the main political force that call for the crushing of the working class. The ruling elite would never have the numbers in a democracy to do that.

Na man, the scums of England would have been hung in England. The convicts that got sent over to Australia were small time crooks whose crime were not enough to hang... and with the American colonies rebelling and the French, the Dutch and the Spanairds taking control of Asia/Pacific, England must establish its footprint here in Australia and later on up through Malaysia, Burma, India etc.

But true that I don't know much about Australia after the First Fleet... but pretty sure they did not escape or ran away to Oz the way the Pilgrims and what not as commonly portrayed in American history.


But more to the point...

First, the "Middle Class" as defined by economists and politicians are not really the elite or the industrialists. From memory they're those earning 20 to 25% on either side of the median wage - so in Australia the Middle Class would include those earning $50k to maybe $100k...

Oh, just google and apparently:
"According to the ATO’s tax statistics, if you earned $248 192 or more in 2008-09, you were part of the top 1%. The average income for an individual in the top 1% of taxpayers was $554 185. The median income for that year was $45 200, so the average income for someone in the top 1% was more than 12 times the median."


So anyway, the Middle Class is a political term for the Working Class - the Blue collars... just it's a lot nicer to call put them in the Middle, which is somewhat technically true, but seriously man, how many fund raisers can you attend on salary of $100k?

So the Middle Class you're referring to would be the 1% of the 1% - those with multi-million dollars income and hundreds of millions and over in assets. Those are the people whose voices are heard and whose demand will be met, those are the people all these laws and politicians and state apparatus are there to protect and perpetuate their wealth. The rest can go on dreaming and blaming immigrants and refugees and Muslims or something.

That's how it has always been, and what else do we expect? If you have money, if I have money, we'd do the same as they do... create jobs and set standards and etiquette, haha.

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True that they don't have the numbers, but they do have the money... and with money you buy numbers and you buy services. Why do you work? Why do any of us work? For money. To put food on the table. To use the kind of house, the kind of food, the kind of toys we have as a measure of our success... So those few with so much have plenty of that cash to get people who will do their bidding.

Free and open society as we know it today - elections and politicians talking down to us and kiss our babies; where we can make fun and crack jokes at politicians and thinking that they work for us... all these are very very very recent.

All these modern democratic and equality stuff only happen since maybe after WW2 - some 70 years ago. And of that 70 years, the past 40 years have seen its systematic undoing.

So democracy and equal rights for the plebs didn't start in Greece, didn't start with Magna Carta some 800 years ago, didn't start with the American colonies or its Rebellion against Britain, and didn't start with Australian Federation where the British monarch is still our head of state.

It kind of got handed to the common people only after WW2 because the people demanded it and the monarch of Europe were almost completely destroyed and the elite in the US and other surviving Western states were frightened seeing how not sharing a bit of their wealth ended for them in Russia and most of Europe.

---

With that small window of opportunity... women get to vote, the coloured folks eventually became "equal" under the law; and old and sick and the orphan got some Social Security payment so they can eat and see a doctor and go to school and have clean air and water around their part of the country too...

Just about all the economists, historians, political scientists I've listened to have said that the last 40 years have seen the undoing of all these civil rights and equality and democratic values. So we're going back to how the world has always been run for thousands of years... only difference is, this time the people have certain laws, most can read and can organised and all grew up with fairy tales about how great their system and their culture is...

How do they fix that? Can't lock the people up for protesting or peacefully demonstrating - freedom and liberty and stuff. So one way is to dumb them down, burden them with huge debt and obligations, make policies that further weaken their job and financial security - you're not going to worry too much about the world when you can't feed or house your family, can you?... Then point the fingers at some weak and convenient target... and to top it off you create boogeymen and terrorists everywhere so they'd rather be safe than sorry and let you do what you need to do... and give them enough food and enough hope.

So the plebs in western democracies are in better place, for sure... but we must know our place and be grateful that so much effort goes into controlling us. In most other countries they just send in the troops or send in hired gangsters or troops dressed as gangsters and start cracking heads.

So if we want change, want a gov't that work for the people... the system and the laws are there if we know how to use it. Otherwise, others will... and they have.

Reminds me of, I think it was an introduction to his Animal Farm, George Orwell observed how a farmer was able to control a couple of oxens with just a little whip. The ox didn't realise how much more powerful they are than the man, and how much damage they can wreck or how much the entire farm depends on their labour to survive.

 

[McLovin]

You don't know history. Most Australians descend from the scum of England, where workers were oppressed by the middle class and came to places like Australia and the USA and made for themselves a better life than the horrors of the British Isles.

This is not some magical fairy land of entitlement. Australia is the way Australia is because of a series of decisions made by people in our early history who came from the old world and didn't want Australia to turn out just like that.

Middle class people are pricks. They're the main political force that call for the crushing of the working class. The ruling elite would never have the numbers in a democracy to do that.

There was no middle class in Britain at that time.

 

[Mrmagoo]

There was no middle class in Britain at that time.

Complete horse****. The tradesmen, business owners and skilled workers of the time kept the young down. Who were forced to sell themselves into slavery in places like the USA and also in Canada and the UK too.

The only reason the UK never had a brutal revolution past the civil war was exactly because the middle class liked things the way they were.

Exactly like in Australia right now. The middle class are evil. When there are revolutions i, they usually got burned and hanged right along side the rich.

The establishment of today does everything and anything to hide from us this period in history of white slavery. Mostly of young people from poor backgrounds.

Exactly like 200 years ago the young have an increasingly smaller path to apprenticeships, becoming skilled workers or home owners. And who is leading this charge ? the middle class of course.

 

[McLovin]

Complete horse****. The tradesman business owners and skilled workers of the time kept the young down. They were forced to sell themselves into slavery in places like the USA and also in Canada and the UK too.

You think tradesmen in the 18th century came close to being middle class by any modern definition? That's hilariously ignorant of history. They would've been lucky to own a small single room cottage, they certainly wouldn't have qualified to vote as forty shilling freeholders. Life was difficult for them and they lived more or less hand to mouth.

The only reason the UK never had a brutal revolution past the civil war was exactly because the middle class liked things the way they were.

What middle class? Go find it. Britain was still overwhelmingly agrarian in the 18th and early 19th century. The middle class is a post industrial revolution phenomenon.

 

[Mrmagoo]

They were forced to leave their farming communities for cities where there were no jobs. They hide such information in books.

 

[Mrmagoo]

The problem is that the privileged aussies are so rich and spolied that nothing is comparably wealthy and they cant even see that those around them are not as well off and dont have the same easy ride. Some people's houses have gone up more than they have earned over the last 10 years before taxes on their income. They dont understand what this country is like for others.