It's the F/A's that are the real gamblers, IMO, as they usually don't manage risk - "but it's a great company, it'll come good one day" is the usual line.
The stock market is a gamble
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It's the F/A's that are the real gamblers, IMO, as they usually don't manage risk - "but it's a great company, it'll come good one day" is the usual line.
tech/a
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Consistent winning in any persuit is about picking up a trend---or winning streak.
With trading we simply skew the numbers in our favor by letting our winning streak run and pulling the pin when a loss is incurred.
Those who arent conversent with how this can be achieved and consequently dont---consider this business gambling.
Those that are conversent with the ways of doing this either in a discretionary or sytematic methodology---get on with business.
When you place a bet you win OR lose. Your full wager is at risk.
When taking a trade we can limit loss.
With trading we simply skew the numbers in our favor by letting our winning streak run and pulling the pin when a loss is incurred.
Those who arent conversent with how this can be achieved and consequently dont---consider this business gambling.
Those that are conversent with the ways of doing this either in a discretionary or sytematic methodology---get on with business.
When you place a bet you win OR lose. Your full wager is at risk.
When taking a trade we can limit loss.
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So if you do sports betting and back Federer to beat hewitt then the odds are definitely in your favour and that makes it not GAMBLING ?
While I'm on this hobby horse let's talk semantics then, how often in this forum do you see the word "speculative" thrown about????? Tell me that isn't gambling!?!?
No that's ok because we're sophisticated investors we'll call it speculation - nonsense
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You sound quite adamant about that but
Successful Gamblers also have money management systems in place...
their outlay on bets is the Equivalent of your stop loss...so theyr'e really risking the same thing.
Don't agree on what I take as your thoughts on trends, look at horse racing if you only followed trends well I hate to think
tech/a
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Because I take advantage of trends.
No its not the same.(Thats just one aspect ,position sizing).
If I bet on a race or a deal in cards I cant remove my bet half way through.
I can when I trade in fact I often do.
In the above example I cant keep the horse racing because its winning but I can in Trading.
I can also position size like you can gambling.
I have far more control of my $$s.
Your odds are fixed---my odds are determined by position sizing and Stop placement (R/R).
If youd like to see how following trends can bring tremendous profit I'll post a link to one of my systems which has been traded live for 6 yrs and still is-- $30k to $439K in the last 6 yrs.
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Lets talk semantics again....isn't a trend the same as saying tendancy?
Something has the tendancy to do something...its not a sure thing????
And because someone is successful on the stockmarket they're not gambling whereas a successful gambler well theyr'e still gambling?
The similarities between gambling and the stockmarket are huge but popular opinion on the 2 are so at odds (excuse the pun).
Glad to hear you have a successful system how much is that going to the average punter ? I don't know why I said that...is it free?
And anyway why is gambling so bad ASF has been running a stock picking comp for years
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And anyway why is gambling so bad ASF has been running a stock picking comp for years
Not much of a gamble really - no downside, unlimited upside...it's a free raffle ticket
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Well some might think your putting your "creditability" up as a stake....
not much downside for me there
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Of course it's a gamble....from a lot of the reply's here people seem to be suggesting that because your taking a calculated risk it's not gambling - nonsense.
Gather more information and use informed decision making with your trades seems to be what everyone is saying...but at the end of the day (unless your insider trading) no matter how many fact's and information you have gathered there is always the unknown....and I'd suggest the unknowns are usually bigger than the knowns.
Alternatively there is TA which if you boil things down is basically "trend following"....sounds like gambling to me
Proffessional gamblers say one of the biggest problems with gambling is confusing skill for luck and too often this leads them to having an inflated belief in their skill and the system they use.
Maybe thats the case with Investors as well, over the last how many years has the stock market been bullish with overall returns above 10%. I read last year that on the ASX 51% of companies went up 49% down. So even if you took a punt on it you still had a better chance of winning than losing
I don't disagree with many of your comments Kgee (although I get the vibe you may be a former disgruntled "punter"), but I think Tech puts it in perspective very succinctly ....
Just for the record, Wikipedia's description includes this ....
Investments are also usually not considered gambling, although some investments can involve significant risk. Examples of investments include stocks, bonds and real estate. Starting a business can also be considered a form of investment. Investments are generally not considered gambling when they meet the following criteria:
Positive expected returns (at least in the long term)
Economic utility
Underlying value independent of the risk being undertaken
Some speculative investment activities are particularly risky, but are still usually considered separately from gambling:
Securities derivatives, such as options or futures, where the value of the derivative is dependent on the value of the underlying asset at a specific point in time (typically the derivative's associated expiration date)
Foreign currency exchange (forex) transactions
Prediction markets
Personally, I think the less informed you are, the closer it probably is to "gambling" ....
I also believe that the best "gamblers" in the world, are probably not "gamblers" at all ............... but they "gamble" a hell of a lot!!
Simply Risk vs. Reward ......... putting the odds in your favour lowers the risk.
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Well wikipaedia put's some closure on this thread huh?
Then I wouldn’t consider them to be gambling. ‘Gambling’ is if you are relying entirely on chance. Eg. Lotto – each outcome is totally random.
Yes
No, of course not.
No, a successful ‘gambler’ is not gambling if he has a proven track record. If he has shifted the probability in his favour (ie. If his strategy has a positive expectancy) then it’s not gambling.
I agree. The majority of inexperienced people in the market ARE gambling, as they have no strategy to give them an edge.
The difference is there is always a loser and a winner in gambling not so with stock.
say everyone pick a football match 5 years ago, for every winner there is a loser
everyone pick WOW 5 years ago, everyone is a winner.
>Apocalypto<
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WELCOME BACK KAURI!
Poster of this thread looks like u got in to late and bearing the brunt of bad timing! A man makes his own luck.
Is trading a gamble? every trade I make is a 50/50 I can't know what the market will do exactly, hence I manage my risk. But I don't think you can call it a punt like u take at the casino. In the market the punter has a much better chance against the house. all depends on how you approach it.
Cheers
tech/a
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Call it what you like. Its the BEST game in town.
I can place my bet and once it moves out of the gates (buy trigger) then decides to turn back the other way (retrace) I can go to my bookie (Broker) and get my money back--you cant.
I can even place my bet AFTER I can see its bolted out of the gate.(Limit order).
I can adjust my odds to whatever I like (Reward to Risk).
If my horse (Stock) Turns around during the race to the line (My target) and runs in the opposite direction I can go to my bookie and grab part of my potential profits.
Not only that but I can take my partial profits and then Back it to go the other way! (Go short).
If my horse reaches the finish line (My target) I can let it keep going all the time making even bigger profits.(Let profits run).
The more people who invest in my horse (Volume) the faster it goes (Range) and the more I make.With horse racing the more who back a horse the shorter the odds!
If I like the way my horse is running to the finish line my bookie will let me put more on it---during the race!!
I can back horses to go in different directions in the same race.
My horse doesnt have to finish the race (Reach my target---or anyone elses) for me to profit.
Now imagine if you could do all that in a horse race!!
Ever heard the term MUG PUNTER----I know where they hang out!
I can place my bet and once it moves out of the gates (buy trigger) then decides to turn back the other way (retrace) I can go to my bookie (Broker) and get my money back--you cant.
I can even place my bet AFTER I can see its bolted out of the gate.(Limit order).
I can adjust my odds to whatever I like (Reward to Risk).
If my horse (Stock) Turns around during the race to the line (My target) and runs in the opposite direction I can go to my bookie and grab part of my potential profits.
Not only that but I can take my partial profits and then Back it to go the other way! (Go short).
If my horse reaches the finish line (My target) I can let it keep going all the time making even bigger profits.(Let profits run).
The more people who invest in my horse (Volume) the faster it goes (Range) and the more I make.With horse racing the more who back a horse the shorter the odds!
If I like the way my horse is running to the finish line my bookie will let me put more on it---during the race!!
I can back horses to go in different directions in the same race.
My horse doesnt have to finish the race (Reach my target---or anyone elses) for me to profit.
Now imagine if you could do all that in a horse race!!
Ever heard the term MUG PUNTER----I know where they hang out!
professor_frink
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tech/a, you, amongst a few others here on ASF, are such an inspiration to ASF'ers like myself.
Sometimes it's easy to forget the basics (or to learn them in the first place) and to get bogged down in bad trading practices.
Your no nonense comments are always food for thought and continually help me to become a better trader.
Thanks for your posts, and keep 'em coming!
Cheers
Sometimes it's easy to forget the basics (or to learn them in the first place) and to get bogged down in bad trading practices.
Your no nonense comments are always food for thought and continually help me to become a better trader.
Thanks for your posts, and keep 'em coming!
Cheers
everyone pick WOW 5 years ago, everyone is a winner.
No, not true (excluding dividends for a moment). If EVERYONE picks WOW 5 years ago, holds for those 5 years and never sells...... the stock price wouldn't have gone up. It wouldn't have even moved at all. For a stock to move, up or down, requires a constant turnover of stock. And of all these people buying and selling every day, there are both winners and losers.
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GOLD
that's worth printing out and sticking on the wall!
X that by 2!!!!!
I should show this to some of my punting mates!
Though, trading equities, futures, bonds, options, whatever you vehicle of choice, IS gambling. A successful gambler just puts the odds in his favour through an edge, just like a Casino does.
As for the media needing a reason for prices moving each day, of course, what are they going to say on the Finance news, oil moved up today and the stockmarket retraced, because it did. LOL.
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C'mon kgee, I know you say you "doubt everything" (I actually doubt that!!), but surely you can't doubt the words of Wikipedia!!
.... Sacrilege.
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yeah I thought the case was closed you can't argue with wikipaediea right?
1 point I must pick up on is in sports betting it's quite possible to make a half time bet on games so you can protect your initial outlay.
2. its possible to bet that your team won't win ( going short)
I don't know why I argue
ps I don't back horses my sisters an equine veternarian and closely associated with the industry
where's my bunch of cheerleaders
1 point I must pick up on is in sports betting it's quite possible to make a half time bet on games so you can protect your initial outlay.
2. its possible to bet that your team won't win ( going short)
I don't know why I argue
ps I don't back horses my sisters an equine veternarian and closely associated with the industry
where's my bunch of cheerleaders
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