The state of the economy at the street level

[SirRumpole]

@SirRumpole
Look at Japan
Not a bad place to live in, but personal consumption is low, per capita income is low and it is still an economic superpower

Giving more money to the average Joe will lead to indeed higher meths price, higher pokies income and beer alcohol sales ,tobaccos, jetski and bigger American pickup Monster on the road with higher debt bill for the spoiled rotten kids
At the same time, more taxes on business entrepreneurs
Not that great a recipe for the future

We have had 40y of "relance par la consommation" in France
A broke socialist paradise...want to swap with australian living?
You can only release the purse string when having a balance budget
Aka Howard years
Now it is time to tighten the purse and transfer expenses into missing infrastructure
Road rail and port land water

Yep, so wind back the latest tax cuts and invest in power stations ?

 

[Smurf1976]

The growing population will require and ever increasing amount of capital investment to support itself.

Eg,
houses need to be replaced with apartment buildings.

I see your point but my observation is that whether or not this represents progress is very much a matter of personal opinion.

Purely anecdotal but my observation is that there’s quite a few living in apartments who’d rather live in a house, relative costs being the only reason they’re not doing so.

Obviously that’s not everyone but there seems to be quite a few. That then brings up the question about growth not benefiting the current population etc.

 

[qldfrog]

For the sake of Australia, reduce taxes, reduce spendings and increase investment in infrastructure
Hand out are not investment be it for business lobbies or dole /pensioners
All expenses of a government should be investment minded
Bring refugees if ROI is positive, none otherwise, pay dole to a level ROI is positive aka less crime rate, more chances of becoming productive individuals for the society
If you do that, there is less taxes on individuals who choose then to donate for ndis equivalent
Obviously, there is no black and white solutions, but that is the idea
Under what principle should 50pc of the population many not paying taxes decide to tax me and where they want my taxes to go
Usually...to them
Democracy is fundamentally flawn, even if it was working as stated..which is not..see brexit Remember that the first democracies only counted people who were actually tax payers
Citoyens in France and implied rights and duties
Your solution is in line with the tax 49pc, be elected by the 51pc of the socialists
And 50y later you have a wonderful sxxhole patchwork of communities hatred with a few alpha new rulers

 

[Smurf1976]

Yep, so wind back the latest tax cuts and invest in power stations ?

With any infrastructure it’s not just building it but making sure we build the right things in the right places.

All the solar farms are shut down in SA right now due to transmission constraints. There’s 225 MW, or 225,000 kilowatts for those less familiar with the measurements, going to waste right at this moment. It sure isn’t the first time and it won’t be the last.

That’s just an example, I won’t derail the thread into a solar power one, but if we’re going to build all this stuff then getting it right technically so it can actually be used is critical if there’s to be any real value obtained from it.

Same with roads, rail etc. No point having things which don’t fit with other things we’ve already got or which fall apart etc.

 

[qldfrog]

And it should be economically sensible to build taking into account on going maintenance, repairs etc
Look at all the waste for Olympic stadiums etc
We have qld gov looking to host olympics. Seriously?

 

[SirRumpole]

For the sake of Australia, reduce taxes, reduce spendings and increase investment in infrastructure

But that is just giving money back to the average Joe to spend on meths, alcohol, tobacco and gambling.

 

[qldfrog]

The average Joe does not pay net tax, the average Joe is on welfare
Could not find by quick search better than that"
Modelling by the National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling (and actually reported last year in the Australian) found that 67% of those under 65 in 2015 were net tax payers, but this dropped to 52% when you included those aged over 65:"
So 4y ago, only 52pc were net rax payers, would bet worse now
Happy to be proven wrong
I summarise as
Most Australians do not pay tax but are on welfare
That can include childcare benefits, neg gearing etc or pension, does not mean dole , or ranting on invalidity
But numbers are numbers

 

[Jack Aubrey]

Most Australians do not pay tax but are on welfare.

....or are being supported by someone else! These sorts of numbers and assumptions are meaningless as some families still have only one "taxpayer" and the participation rate in Australia is (a relatively high) 66% (working age people in a job or looking for work). Interesting that you include neg. gearing as "welfare" as that would put most businesses in the "welfare recipient" category as well. What about the multinationals and mining companies who pay no, or very little, tax on profits which are then sent to tax havens? Ikea, Google, Facebook and Whitehaven Coal could fund all our "welfare" with a Buffet tax on their exported untaxed profits. Adani has received promises of Govt. handouts and waivers worth $4Billion before a gram of coal has been dug up and Clive Palmer has now put in his invoice for his "good work" during the recent election. Plenty of bludgers to get your teeth into there.

 

[satanoperca]

....or are being supported by someone else! These sorts of numbers and assumptions are meaningless as some families still have only one "taxpayer" and the participation rate in Australia is (a relatively high) 66% (working age people in a job or looking for work). Interesting that you include neg. gearing as "welfare" as that would put most businesses in the "welfare recipient" category as well. What about the multinationals and mining companies who pay no, or very little, tax on profits which are then sent to tax havens? Ikea, Google, Facebook and Whitehaven Coal could fund all our "welfare" with a Buffet tax on their exported untaxed profits. Adani has received promises of Govt. handouts and waivers worth $4Billion before a gram of coal has been dug up and Clive Palmer has now put in his invoice for his "good work" during the recent election. Plenty of bludgers to get your teeth into there.

IKEA - everyone loves to support this company that largely killed of Australian manufactured furniture.
How simple maths :
Ikea: $11m tax paid on $1bn of revenue (its first tax paid in the last three years).Dec 7, 2017 So for easy calculations that declared $33m in profit. 30% tax rate. 3.3% margin on sales, seems a little slim to me.
I am guess a large amount of profit shifting overseas. Find me an Australia manufacturer who can run on 3.3% margins and hang around.

Google had a corporate tax expense of only $26.5 million in Australia and Facebook paid $11.8 million despite earning billions in advertising revenue. Google is still fighting the ATO over a tax bill it was hit with in 2017 and has funds to cover it.

 

[moXJO]

Is that $1bill in oz revenue?

 

[SirRumpole]

....or are being supported by someone else! These sorts of numbers and assumptions are meaningless as some families still have only one "taxpayer" and the participation rate in Australia is (a relatively high) 66% (working age people in a job or looking for work). Interesting that you include neg. gearing as "welfare" as that would put most businesses in the "welfare recipient" category as well. What about the multinationals and mining companies who pay no, or very little, tax on profits which are then sent to tax havens? Ikea, Google, Facebook and Whitehaven Coal could fund all our "welfare" with a Buffet tax on their exported untaxed profits. Adani has received promises of Govt. handouts and waivers worth $4Billion before a gram of coal has been dug up and Clive Palmer has now put in his invoice for his "good work" during the recent election. Plenty of bludgers to get your teeth into there.

Put an export tax on all our minerals, gas, and agricultural products. That should solve the budget and infrastructure problems .

 

[qldfrog]

What matters is the majority of Australians do not pay tax overall so a party called tax the bastards could win all elections by promising to tax 49pc of the population at 90pc and give 10k per year to the 51pc of the others who will be their electorate
Democracy is so flawn
This is very simplistic but please tell me what i am missing
Corporate tax is out of the equation there, of course they should but do not pay their fair share and i do not blame them when our corporate tax rate is one of the highest in the world
They can move, few individuals do, or at least not the mass
In a me me society with no national interest and selfishness, you can not loose elections
Unrealistic? Just study France a place i know, or the labour platform

 

[Value Collector]

Time will tell, but world population is increasing while most economies aren't growing at all, going backwards or growing very slowly.

The world has been living on debt for a long time and there has to be a reckoning at some point.

The Net debt of the world is $0.

 

[Value Collector]

Put an export tax on all our minerals, gas, and agricultural products. That should solve the budget and infrastructure problems .

Why would we want to inflict a tariff on ourselves?

We already charge
1, mining companies royalties
2, mining companies company tax
3, miners income tax

The revenue received from the mining industry already is the largest income for the government.

 

[Value Collector]

I see your point but my observation is that whether or not this represents progress is very much a matter of personal opinion.

Purely anecdotal but my observation is that there’s quite a few living in apartments who’d rather live in a house, relative costs being the only reason they’re not doing so.

Obviously that’s not everyone but there seems to be quite a few. That then brings up the question about growth not benefiting the current population etc.

If people don’t want population growth, then they should stop having children.

How many of the people that complain about population growth have added to the problem by having children?

 

[SirRumpole]

If people don’t want population growth, then they should stop having children.

How many of the people that complain about population growth have added to the problem by having children?

There is also immigration which we didn't ask for.

 

[SirRumpole]

The revenue received from the mining industry already is the largest income for the government.

Compared to the value of the assets the tax is sod all, and a lot of it is avoided anyway.

 

[PZ99]

The Net debt of the world is $0.

Only if everybody is dead. Otherwise it's $184 trillion.

 

[satanoperca]

Why would we want to inflict a tariff on ourselves?

We already charge
1, mining companies royalties
2, mining companies company tax
3, miners income tax

The revenue received from the mining industry already is the largest income for the government.

1. Agree, raise the higher, it is the property of the country
2. They don't pay any tax
1&2 go to making a few very wealthy without paying any tax on resources that are Australians.

3. Take the miners less, they are workers.

The big four banks (Commonwealth Bank, Westpac, NAB, and ANZ), two biggest miners (BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto), two supermarket giants (Wesfarmers, Woolworths), and Telstra and AMP Limited paid a combined $20.8bn in corporate tax in 2016-17 – representing 45% of all corporate tax paid in Australia.



So put in perspective, do you think you could find enough employees who earnt $15B like Qantas and paid no tax.

I look at this list and say
F---K
Qantas
Exxon
Glencore
Origin - actually f---k them even more
Shell
etc etc etc

 

[satanoperca]

If people don’t want population growth, then they should stop having children.

How many of the people that complain about population growth have added to the problem by having children?

This is the most bulls--hit comment that you have ever written, are you high, pissed or just otherwise incapable of making a valid statement.

I thought Australia was getting dumber, now I believe it